Posted by gary g (208.133.221.217) on December 15, 1999 at 14:30:44:
In Reply to: CHers posted by hub on December 15, 1999 at 08:25:10:
THIS is one of the BIGGEST parts of the CH puzzle as far as I'm concerned
funny thing, I just emailed somebody (not Hub) about EXACTLY this last night
we've brought this up before, a few times, and it has usually brought a chorus of self-righteous, irate, rantings of "how dare you", etc
Consider:
approx. 10% of general population is alcoholic and/or addict
approx 10% of that group is "clean and sober" at any given point in time
that's 1% of the general pop "clean and sober", after having substance problems
(which by the way, correlates with combined real #s of estimated AA & NA "membership" at any given time- 2.5-3,000,000- so it's a pretty good number)
OK - 1% clean and sober in gen'l pop.
NOW - consider the occurence of CH
estimates range from .3% to 1% of the population
if there is NO cerrelation between CH & alcoholism,-
the % of people who are clusterheads AND who have had their toubles with booze would be absolutely TINY
they'd have to be 1 of 100 in both of 2 groups
BUT GUESS WHAT-
I've taken careful note when this came up in the past - of both the people on CHMB I have gotten to "know", and what others have posted about themselves -
the % of "clean and sobers" on CHMB is MANY,MANY,MANY times higher than general pop. avg.
and I'm talking BIG multipliers
work that backwards and it REALLY strongly suggests the % of Clusterheads who either have or had substance problems is VERY VERY high
(you use the "recovery" group as a reference, because the folks still wrestling with their substance demons will VERY predictably deny or minimize their situation)
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OK -
what does that mean ?
hard to say
VERY IMPORTANT-
FIRST - dismiss the linear thinking trap:
it DOESN'T mean drinking & drugging cause CH
it DOESN'T mean CH leads to drinking & drugging
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what DO we know ?
at least the following several loosely connected things:
there are similarities and/or linkages in some of the biochemistry involved in CH , and the effect of alcohol on the body of SOME people
there are we now know, structural differences in at least one part of the brain in clusterheads
there are, it has been frequently reported in the media the last couple years, differences in brain response & function to alcohol,in alcoholics and nonalcoholic people
depression ALSO shares some of the same biochemical linkages with CH and ETOH'm -
and we have pretty much established here there is a commonality between depression and CH, in many clusterheads
there is a WELLknown correlation between ETOH'm and depression, in alcoholics
AND -perhaps the biggest indicator of all -
alcohol is the ONLY universal attack trigger we have come up with here on CHMB
AND
when we're NOT in a cluster, it's pretty much agreed alcohol DOESN'T cause a problem
WHICH MEANS: there IS a definite tight link between the biochemistry of alcohol ingestion and the biochemistry of CH
now to me it doesn't take a rocket scientist, to figure this one out, and I know SEVERAL of us have "discussed it amonst ourselves" at great length without too much disagreement
(I'm NOT discussing "drugs" because I don't know much about them - was in college in late 60s so obviously I know my way around a bong, but it never "stuck" with me, and I haven't even seen any weed for well over 20 years)
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SUGGESTIONS:
as you read whatever this thread develops into,
there will predictably be a LOT of people who check in with that righteous anger, protesting this idea, remember that the outstanding characteristic of an alcoholic is defiance, AND the most important thing for them is to defend their "right" to drink
SECOND SUGGESTION
DON'T rush to overly simplified conclusions about cause and effect -
these things NEVER come together in a big flash of enlightenment (that's TV med show bullshit)
it takes little pieces, and littler pieces, over time, constantly finetuning the model -
the big understandings DON'T come in a dramatic discovery except in movies and the imagination of the histrionic personality -
JUST THINK ON THIS A BIT
AND if you're SERIOUS about finding relief for your CH
think about the obvious implication