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poconokevin

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vitamin D insufficient
Jul 12^th, 2015 at 7:03am

After hearing from Batch, and reading tons here and elsewhere, I really started to wonder about vit. D. Through my life, I have experienced more than a couple inflammatory type problems, problems that re-occur. The cluster headaches, an "undefined" inflammatory arthritis since my late 20's, allergy related skin inflammation. I am "diabetic" (130 last fasting sugar) but my a1c is 6.3. I had blackouts when I was in my late teens. I had an unexplained heart attack when i was 36. Bouts with urethritis through my early 20's. I seem to have some level of pain almost always. I'm sure I forgot a couple things. I am quite active despite these nagging injuries, I am a roofing/siding/carpentry guy. I obviously mostly work outside, I golf, fish (15 days on the boat this season), ice fished probably 15 times this winter. I am outside in the sun plenty, pretty good tan this year.
Back to the vit D. At Batchs' request, i got the 25(oh)D added to the my last bloodwork. I thought, how could it be low. It was, and at the time of year with the longest of days. I think based on that info, it would be safe to assume it would be even lower in winter even though I get more sun than most.
After doing some more reading about vitD, the possible troubles being deficient can cause, and listening to Batch about the "anti-inflammatory" regimen, its really got me wondering if I have been vitD deficient most of my life, and could that be contributing to some of the "chronic" type troubles I have had?

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poconokevin CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 11	Re: vitamin D insufficient Reply #1 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 7:09am I did forget to mention I am now 52yoa.
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blacklab

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Re: vitamin D insufficient
Reply #2 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 9:02am

Kevin Hi,
We are of the same elk and also seem to have similar interests, I'm out fishing and also work on the tools outside all year round, The climate down under has a high U.V count and I too was deficient in Vit D3 when I first got tested. I've even had a couple of serious skin cancers removed from sun exposure over the last few years !
So it beg's the question, why our levels are so low ?
There's a lot of information to read up on here, not only the regime, but mainstream drugs as well and O2. The regime didn't immediately work for me, so verapamil and imigran were my best friend for the first year. But since then, after getting my D3 levels to "my sweet spot" I'm gradually joining the pain free club ! some have had an instant response and gone pain free almost straight away.
why, who knows, why do we end up deficient with the hours you and I spend in the sun ?
There's so many questions to this puzzle with out a definitive answer, if there was one, someone would have probably found a cure for this horrible disease by now !
You ask some interesting questions about your past ailments, ones I have no answers for, but from my experience on the regime, my doctor has seen no medical evidence it is doing me harm, I'm definitely not getting the colds and flu's I used to regularly experience and then there's the improvement I've definitely noticed in my CH severity. In my opinion its all positive !!!!
As everyone will tell you here, the most important thing to be done is working with a good headache specialist and trying to get them on board should you decide to start Batches regime ( which I highly recommend)
There seems to be something new to learn about this disease everyday, and as the saying goes, " knowledge gives you the power". But I totally agree with what you were saying about some of the effects a low Vit d3 count can have ! Its truly an interesting topic
good luck with your strategy !
regards
colin

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Sean McE CH.com Veteran Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 143 Seattle, Wa Gender:	Re: vitamin D insufficient Reply #3 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 3:32pm How many of more of us are fisherman or fisherwomen? Contaminants? PCB's? Mercury? Lead exposure from weights? Just a thought. Sean
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Mike NZ

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Oxygen rocks! D3 too!

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Re: vitamin D insufficient
Reply #4 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 4:19pm

Quote:

We are of the same elk and also seem to have similar interests, I'm out fishing and also work on the tools outside all year round, The climate down under has a high U.V count and I too was deficient in Vit D3 when I first got tested. I've even had a couple of serious skin cancers removed from sun exposure over the last few years !
So it beg's the question, why our levels are so low ?

One possible reason is that it isn't the sunlight exposure that is lacking but one or more of the chemicals required to enable the creation of the D3. This could be vitamins, minerals or something else.

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Batch

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Re: vitamin D insufficient
Reply #5 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 5:19pm

Sean, Colin,

Cutaneous Vitamin D status (vitamin D from Sun exposure on our skin) as measured with the serum 25(OH)D concentration lab test is roughly 45 ng/mL, (112 nmol/L)... for the average Southern California Professional Lifeguard... A little higher for roofers...

We already know that is too low to prevent CH... On average, we need to keep our serum concentration of 25(OH)D up around 80 ng/mL (200 nmol/L)... for some of us even higher serum concentrations are needed to remain pain free.

Our 25(OH)D serum concentrations are low because we don't run around in a bathing suit without sun block most of the summer like we did as kids... Bare legs below shorts, face and bare arms are not going to absorb enough UV-B from direct sunlight to make sufficient quantities of cutaneous vitamin D3.

On average, and if given the opportunity, our bodies will burn the equivalent of 3500 IU of vitamin D3 a day... That means we would need to go out in the mid-day sun for at least a half hour a day 5 to 6 days a week clad in a bathing suit without sun block in order to stay up with the daily vitamin D3 consumption and build enough reserves to last us during the winter months.... We don't do that...

The second reason we've a low vitamin D3 status is the foods we eat are fortified with too little vitamin D3. We can thank the idiots and junk science at the Institute of Medicine at HHS for their "ruling" that an RDA of 400 IU/day vitamin D3 is sufficient... The fact that this RDA is low by a factor of 10 as proven by real experts is an ongoing battle...

Sean, regarding all your health problems... it's not the lead or heavy metals although they can pose a threat... it's a chronic low serum concentration of 25(OH)D and likely magnesium. I'll venture nearly all of your health problems are due to a deficiency of these two nutrients and to some extent, the rest of the anti-inflammatory regimen.

Check out the following Vitamin D Wiki link and scroll down the column on the left for all that ails you... I'm confident you will find a chronically low vitamin D3 status has been playing a role in all of them.

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The good news is the process of preventing your CH with the anti-inflammatory regimen at 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 or higher, will go a long way in halting and in some cases reversing the problems caused by a chronically low vitamin D3 status...

The other big problem we face is the Standard American Diet (SAD), and it is sad... very sad... Colin, you've got the same thing down under...

We've been lied to by the medical associations, the heart associations and Big Pharma... in particular about eating fats... and the danger of high cholesterol levels... Our skin makes vitamin D3 when the UV-B in sunlight strikes cholesterol... The real danger is high blood pressure and the anti-inflammatory regimen helps lower it.

Our brains are 60% fat... and they need good fats to function properly. Butter, olive oil, bacon grease, lard, avocado oil and my favorite coconut oil are all very good for you... but not according to the SAD....

What's bad are corn and grain oils and the real killer, sugar and in particular high fructose corn syrup (HFCS). Put a mental Skull and Cross Bones on the sugar bowl for starters.

If you want to jazz up the anti-inflammatory regimen, add 5000 mg/day vitamin C, some CoQ10 and a good probiotic... Most of our immune system resides in the gut. Feed it probiotics and fermented veggies like kimchi, sauerkraut, pickles on a daily basis and you'll start cultivating some very friendly colonies of beasties in your GI tract. Google the "human microbiome" for some fascinating reading...

It took me 65 years to discover the human body does quite well at healing itself and staying healthy if we give it what it needs... and not what too many doctors think is best as advised by Big Pharma...

We need the right combination of vitamins, minerals, along with a healthy diet with lots of greens, nuts, fresh fruits (blue berries and black berries are really good for you), the good fats, meat, fish, poultry... and daily exercise....

Google the GOMBS diet and recipes...

My philosophy of life is simple... The first rule to remember is none of us gets out of it alive... That makes the second rule very important... Maintain the highest quality of life as possible for as long as possible... As CH'ers we already know how miserable life can be if we're constantly haunted by cluster headaches...

Eating the right kind of foods, supplementing with the essential vitamins and minerals, getting some exercise on a regular basis, and a good 8 hours of quality sleep goes a long way in satisfying rule two... provided you're not taking man-made patented chemicals... read pharmaceuticals on a constant basis...

I'll leave you with the following link... I sent it to Colin earlier...

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The entire article is fascinating but I found Mecola's Alzheimer’s Prevention Strategies very interesting... and right on track with most of this post...

Take care and please keep us posted...

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Jul 12^th, 2015 at 5:25pm by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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thierry

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Re: vitamin D insufficient
Reply #6 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 4:44am

Hi Batch, thanks for your post above, it makes for great and intersting reading. Below is an extract taken from the reading from the link you posted:

"Improve your magnesium levels. Preliminary research strongly suggests a decrease in Alzheimer symptoms with increased levels of magnesium in the brain. Unfortunately most magnesium supplements do not pass the blood brain levels, but a new one, magnesium threonate, appears to and holds some promise for the future for treating this condition and may be superior to other forms.!

Should we be changing our magnesium to magnesium threonate then?
Looks like it might be a good idea

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All the best

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« Last Edit: Jul 14^th, 2015 at 4:45am by thierry »

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blacklab

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Re: vitamin D insufficient
Reply #7 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 5:35am

Hi Thierry,
this is quite interesting and I look forward to batches comments.
I too have read about magnesium threonite and its an interesting read. It is a synthetic range and a nobel prize was awarded to the chemists involved.
They are saying it is one of the only magnesiums that can actually increase the brains levels, unlike the other types.
They also claim neuropathic andsleep improvements amongst other other advantages.
as mentioned, looking forward to Batches take on it.

cheers
colin

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thierry CH.com Alumnus Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 406 Galway, Ireland Gender:	Re: vitamin D insufficient Reply #8 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 11:55am Wow Colin, sleep improvement would be great, I never get more than 6 hours sleep per night.
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Potter

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Re: vitamin D insufficient
Reply #9 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 12:19pm

Quote:

Hi Thierry,
this is quite interesting and I look forward to batches comments.
I too have read about magnesium threonite and its an interesting read. It is a synthetic range and a nobel prize was awarded to the chemists involved.
They are saying it is one of the only magnesiums that can actually increase the brains levels, unlike the other types.
They also claim neuropathic andsleep improvements amongst other other advantages.
as mentioned, looking forward to Batches take on it.

cheers
colin

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Potter

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blacklab

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Re: vitamin D insufficient
Reply #10 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 6:12pm

An interesting read Potter !
I'm a neanderthol on the computer, I cant paste the info that I read on the threonite, maybe someone else can.
This may be another polarizing topic like when Vit D3 was first introduced. I cant see them issuing a nobel prize for its invention/discovery if there wasn't evidence or merit in there work, backed up by scientific fact. So it will be interesting read on further feedback.......

colin

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Batch

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Re: vitamin D insufficient
Reply #11 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 7:56pm

Potter beat me to the punch... The link he posted says it all... Well done Potter...

From day one of my posts about the anti-inflammatory regimen, I've looked for the most cost effective nutrients. That's an easy do at Costco as the price on the shelf always lists the cost per capsule. I also try all the supplements to make sure they work... at least for me before I suggest them.

The four factors I use in selecting a magnesium supplement are:
1. The actual content and serving size...(number of tablets/capsule per serving) and basically, the amount of actual magnesium. For example (Mg) and not the compound... Magnesium Chloride (MgCl₂).

We need 400-420 mg/day magnesium for men and 310 to 320 mg/day for women. Fortunately for CH'ers eating a healthy diet, much of this magnesium can come from dietary sources... That means supplementing with that much or less is sufficient. I'll stick with the 400 mg/day liquid softgel from Nature Made.

2. Bio-availability. This is a fuzzy factor depending on the study you read... The latest survey of studies found magnesium oxide resulted in the same elevation of serum magnesium as some of the higher rated magnesium compounds.

3. Tendency to result in osmotic diarrhea... Ultimately just about any of available magnesium compounds will result in this problem depending on the dose... the diet... and the big unknown factor... the makeup of the individual's micro biome... i.e., friendly colonies of bacteria in our GI tracts. As a general practice, split the 400 mg dose by 8 hours and always take with a meal or shortly after eating...

4. Cost effectiveness... Best bang for the buck. The same amount of magnesium can cost 2 cents to a $1.31... Read the Supplement Facts to know what you're getting...

I weight factors 3 and 4 the highest.

Henery Lahore, the wizard behind Vitamin D Wiki claims magnesium chloride works best with vitamin D3. He has a web page chocked full of great information on magesium as well as magnesium and vitamin D3 at the following link.

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Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Jul 14^th, 2015 at 7:59pm by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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