Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Clusterheadaches.com
 
Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegisterEvent CalendarBirthday List  
 





Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
attn batch : hyperprolactinaemia and prolactinoma. (Read 3156 times)
tangerinearmy
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 58
attn batch : hyperprolactinaemia and prolactinoma.
Apr 17th, 2015 at 6:38am
 
hi batch

sorry to ask you about this direct if you want no part in it i understand,but trying to discuss anything that may be part of cluster headaches with a GP is well frustrating at best.

i had blood tests done and have been told my prolactin levels are high not overly high but high.
now i find this interesting with a view to C.H( although the gp was clueless )
prolactinomas is a benign tumor in the pituitary gland which is very near the hypothalamus

i just wonder if this may be something to do with CH

what do you think.

cheers


edit to add

one of the intercranial causes of hyperprlactinaemia CAN be from drugs and one of the drugs listed is verapamil.
now i dont and wont take verapamil but many others do and some have gone from episodic to chronic  could this be linked.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2015 at 7:25am by tangerinearmy »  
 
IP Logged
 
Mike NZ
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline


Oxygen rocks! D3 too!


Posts: 3785
Auckland, New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: attn batch : hyperprolactinaemia and prolactinoma.
Reply #1 - Apr 17th, 2015 at 7:04pm
 
Possibly, possibly not.

This sort of question really needs to be directed at the appropriate medical specialist(s).
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
tangerinearmy
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 58
Re: attn batch : hyperprolactinaemia and prolactinoma.
Reply #2 - Apr 18th, 2015 at 8:24am
 
Mike NZ wrote on Apr 17th, 2015 at 7:04pm:
Possibly, possibly not.

This sort of question really needs to be directed at the appropriate medical specialist(s).



i believe i would have more chance of finding rocking horse poo
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Batch
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


Control The Beast With
O2 & D3 You Must


Posts: 3708
Bremerton, WA
Gender: male
Re: attn batch : hyperprolactinaemia and prolactinoma.
Reply #3 - Apr 18th, 2015 at 4:31pm
 
Tangerinearmy,

Interesting question...  I'm not a doctor and on top of that, it wouldn't be prudent to offer even a guess answer to your question.

What I have learned in over 20 years with CH is we're all different (within a range of differences) and that at least two things about CH that are consistent, and these are its inconsistency in presentation and that it rarely ever goes away for good.

The last four years experience in working with CH'ers taking the anti-inflammatory regimen, and the results of the online survey of CH'ers taking this regimen to prevent their CH has me thinking in different directions that the neurological community in general who treat this disorder.

Treating cluster headache (CH) patients with the anti-inflammatory regimen represents a paradigm shift from the conventional Standards of Care recommended treatments for CH.   The standards of care recommended treatments address the neurological symptoms of CH as a trigeminal autonomic cephalalgia (TAC) with neurogenic origins in the hypothalamus and manifestations in the trigeminal nerves.  Typical prophylactic treatments include corticosteroids as a transitional preventative while titrating up with the longer-term preventative verapamil, a calcium channel blocker and in some cases, lithium.

The anti-inflammatory regimen is a completely different treatment modality that addresses vitamin and mineral deficiencies as the underlying cause of CH. 

That > 85% of CH patients respond favorably to a daily regimen of vitamin D3, Omega-3 fatty acids and the vitamin D3 cofactors suggests CH is a genetotrophic disease. 

In 1956, Dr. Roger J. Williams, PhD., a brilliant biochemist who discovered the B-vitamin pantothenic acid, coined the term "genetotrophic disease" to describe diseases which resulted from genetically determined nutritional metabolic needs not being met by the individual and which result in poor gene expression. Motulsky has recently argued that many of the common degenerative diseases are the result of the imbalance nutritional intake with genetically determined needs for good health.

If you stop and think about genetotrophic diseases, a number of examples come to mind quite easily that meet its definition…  For example, Scurvy is caused by a lack of vitamin C.  Sailors from England used to take crates of limes with them on long ocean voyages to prevent this disorder and came to the new world sucking on limes to prevent scurvy… and that’s why they’re called “Limeys.”   Another example is Rickets.  It’s caused by a lack of vitamin D3 or the inability to pull calcium from the GI tract.  An iodine deficiency can lead to enlargement of the thyroid a.k.a. goiter.  Beriberi is a disease brought on by a Vitamin B-1 (thiamine) deficiency. There are many other diseases that meet the definition of a genetotrophic disease.

What is also clear, is the CH disorder is also associated with neurogenic inflammation in and around the trigeminal nerves.  As inflammation is the result of an immune system response to insult from a number of sources, CH can also be classified as a chronic neuroimmune disease.

Once you make that distinction,  CH falls in with more than 80 other autoimmune diseases like Multiple Sclerosis, Guillain-Barre syndrome, Rheumatoid arthritis, the irritable bowel diseases: Crohn’s, Ulcerative Colitis, Celiac and IBS.  The list goes on…  That makes CH very likely an autoimmune disease with neurological manifestations that can be treated and prevented by genetic expression made possible with vitamin D3.

Accordingly, there is no question in my mind that the success of the anti-inflammatory regimen with vitamin D3 as a CH preventative represents an "out of the box" new insight into the pathogenesis of CH...  It just needs to be reverse engineered to look at causality.

I'm also firmly convinced that the mechanism of action for this regimen lies with the autocrine/paracrine signaling role vitamin D3 plays at the genetic level triggering genetic expression. 

This is where a 1,25(OH)2D3 molecule combines with one of the retinoid molecules (vitamin A) to form a dimer bridge that then attaches one end to a vitamin D receptor (VDR) and the other to a Retinoid X Receptor (RXR) in a vitamin D response element (VDRE) on a candidate gene.

When this happens, Dr. Robert Heaney explains it best by saying, "vitamin D3 unlocks the cells genetic library of instructions and the cell starts executing them" i.e., genetic expression.

During genetic expression, the cell starts performing one or more of the following internal or intracrine activities:  it replicates, differentiates, starts producing or inhibiting the production of peptides and other active chemical messengers, or the cell dies.

It's the chemical signaling that controls other biological processes where all this gets interesting. If these chemical messengers attach to receptors on its own cell membrane, it's considered autocrine signaling.  If these messengers attach to receptors on adjacent or near by cells it's called paracrine signaling.

In the case of the cells within the hypothalamus which has an important and unique function within the nervous system due to its link to the endocrine system via the pituitary gland.  In this case, genetic expression made possible by vitamin D3 can trigger the release of hormones that travel through the bloodstream as an endocrine signaling mechanism that controls functions organs and tissues elsewhere in the body signalling them to start or stop other functions.

My latest research in this area revealed several studies that indicate there are vitamin D3 receptors and the enzymes needed to hydroxylate vitamin D3 to 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D3 found in brain cells throughout the brain. 

What is particularly interesting is the highest concentrations of these genetic expression precursors are found in the hypothalamus and trigeminal nerves…  With the hypothalamus involved, we're talking the neurogenic head-waters of CH pathogenesis.

If we follow this confluence of findings and add in calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP), which several studies have found is produced in the trigeminal ganglia and elevated in the bloodstream during the pain phase of CH and migraine... we have a possible trigger. 

Adding one more factoid that vitamin D3 has been shown to down regulate/suppress the production of CGRP, (quite possibly through genetic expression), we have a viable candidate mechanism of action for vitamin D3's capacity to prevent CH.

I say possible candidate, as a 2010 study identified 2776 genomic positions occupied by the VDR and 229 genes with significant changes in expression in response to vitamin D3...  Sooo... there are potentially thousands of other candidates for genetic expression made possible by vitamin D3... and any one or more of them could easily play a role in a mechanism of action inhibiting CH pathogenesis...

That said, I'll stick with the CGRP gambit for now as there is corroborating evidence provided by none other than the good Dr. Peter Goadsby and Dr. David Dodick.  These two neurologist have tag teamed on a pair of phase 2 RCTs involving the use of two monoclonal antibodies, ALD403 (Alder BioPharmaceuticals Inc) and LY2951742 (Eli Lilly and Company), both with an appetite for CGRP... to prevent migraine headaches...

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

I realize this isn’t a direct answer to your question about prolactin levels… but I hope you find the above interesting.

Take care,

V/R, Batch


Back to top
« Last Edit: Apr 19th, 2015 at 4:20pm by Batch »  

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
pete_batcheller  
IP Logged
 
tangerinearmy
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 58
Re: attn batch : hyperprolactinaemia and prolactinoma.
Reply #4 - Apr 18th, 2015 at 8:13pm
 
Smiley


thanks man
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
tangerinearmy
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 58
Re: attn batch : hyperprolactinaemia and prolactinoma.
Reply #5 - Apr 19th, 2015 at 6:51pm
 
i would advise people to have there prolactin levels checked as there is deffo evidence of cluster headaches  happening because of prolactinomas 


Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Batch
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


Control The Beast With
O2 & D3 You Must


Posts: 3708
Bremerton, WA
Gender: male
Re: attn batch : hyperprolactinaemia and prolactinoma.
Reply #6 - Apr 20th, 2015 at 9:00am
 
Tangerinearmy,

Thanks... Excellent post... 

This is an example of the very reason Bob Johnson cautions people about Cluster-Like Headaches and to obtain a proper diagnosis from a neurologist with experience treating patients with cluster headache.

As I said in my response to your post on prolactinomas, I'm not a doctor...  A differential diagnosis for cluster headache calls for an MRI and that would have caught a macroprolactinoma illustrated in the link you provided... 

However, had it been a much smaller prolactinoma, it's possible the MRI would not have detected it.  That makes the lab test for prolactin levels another diagnostic tool.

Regarding size isn't everything...  see the following link on Pituitary Volume and Headache.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Thanks again.

V/R, Batch
Back to top
  

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
pete_batcheller  
IP Logged
 
tangerinearmy
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 58
Re: attn batch : hyperprolactinaemia and prolactinoma.
Reply #7 - Apr 20th, 2015 at 10:56am
 
thanks batch and yes bob johnson is bang on with his recommendations
i have had ch for 16 years and am episodic so doubt in my case its linked but ill sure as hell be finding out.

unfortunately i cant have an mri due to magnet in my head i have had ct scans actually 2 in last 3 years and nothing has been said so either ive caught it real early or its small and hasnt grown.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print

DISCLAIMER: All information contained on this web site is for informational purposes only.  It is in no way intended to be used as a replacement for professional medical treatment.   clusterheadaches.com makes no claims as to the scientific/clinical validity of the information on this site OR to that of the information linked to from this site.  All information taken from the internet should be discussed with a medical professional!