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JMcW

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D3 sanity check
Mar 9^th, 2015 at 4:42pm

Hi all,

I started the D3 regime 24 hours ago, but a slightly watered down version. In short I think I am taking everything I should, excluding 5,000 iu D3 and the loading dose.
I have not had my D3 blood levels tested.

I moved from a very sunny Southern hemisphere country to a very wet Northern hemisphere country 10 years ago and I suspect I'm D3 deficient. 8 years ago I started ECH, 5 years ago I turned chronic.

I have some questions I hope you can help me with.

1.) I guess I am concerned that 10,000 iu D3 is too much and can cause other health problems. I respond very well to most medication, therefore I want to try D3 at 5,000 iu first to see if it helps. Does that make sense or does it have to be 10,000 iu? My reasoning is that if I respond to 5,000 iu, do I really have to take 10,000 iu?

2.) I struggled a bit getting the exact amounts of vitamins suggested. This is what I intend taking on a daily basis. Excluding the question above about the D3, is this correct - or close enough? Should anything be modified?

- Vit D3 5000 iu
- Omega fish oil 1000mg
- Magnesium 383mg
- Calcium 333mg
- Zinc 8.3mg
- Vitamin B50 complex containing
- B1 50mg
- B2 50mg
- B6 50mg
- B12 50ug
- Niacin 50mg NE
- Panthothenic Acid 50mg
- Folic acid 400ug
- Biotin 50ug

3.) I had 2 attacks on Friday, 3 on Saturday and 3 on Sunday with pretty much constant shadowing in-between. In the last 24 hours since I started D3 I have had zero attacks and about 5 minutes of shadowing. Could it possibly have started working so fast?

And then I wanted to add a thank you for taking the time to probably answer the same questions over and over. I know all the information is written down, but I think from a D3 newbie perspective everyone wants a bit of reassurance that what they're doing is right.

All the best,
McW

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« Last Edit: Mar 10^th, 2015 at 6:05am by JMcW »

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lancashire Lad

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #1 - Mar 9^th, 2015 at 5:27pm

D3 has both anti inflammatory and anti hypertension properties (along with many other)

It is known that inflammation and raised blood pressure contribute to headaches. My theory is that both inflammation and raised blood pressure (including effect of atmospheric pressure lowering) are co contributors to primary and cervicogenic headaches.

If this is true D3 will help. But D3 has to be in balance with other vitamins, minerals, hormones and other stuff. Also there are medications and medical conditions that can cause serious problems with too high D3 levels.

This should not be surprising when you consider Vitamin D is used to kill rats and can assist in clogging up the arteries in humans.

You need to talk with your doc and have your current medications and medical conditions checked for compatability with raised D3 levels.

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: D3 sanity check Reply #2 - Mar 9^th, 2015 at 6:53pm Hi McW and welcome, This is what I take, and have been CH free for the past 2yrs Vitamin D-3 5,000iu 1/day. Kirkland mature multi 1/day. Fish Oil 1200mg 1/day. Magnesium Citrate 400mg 1/day Cheers, Hoppy.
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Mike NZ CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Oxygen rocks! D3 too! Posts: 3785 Auckland, New Zealand Gender:	Re: D3 sanity check Reply #3 - Mar 9^th, 2015 at 11:32pm I was CH pain free for over 1.5 years taking 6,000IU a day and I only increased it to 10,000IU for the last 1.8 years to try to help with my migraines too. So 5,000 may be enough for you.
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Batch

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #4 - Mar 10^th, 2015 at 1:48pm

Holy Shiite Batman !!!

So much information about vitamin D3... Some of it spot on and some of it so far off base it's meaningless BS that only serves to confuse, or worse yet, frighten readers new to this regimen.

For starters, vitamin D3 is one of the safest nutrients we can take. It's so important to human biological functions, our skin makes vitamin D3 when 7-dehydrocholesterol in the fatty layer of our skin is exposed to the UV-B in sunlight. Moreover, a vitamin D3 dose of 10,000 IU/day is very safe.

The important thing to remember is it isn't the dose of vitamin D3 that counts, but rather the 25(OH)D response. As we all respond to vitamin D3 differently, it is always prudent to see your PCP or neurologist for a lab test of your 25(OH)D.

Over 300 member CH'ers here at CH.com have posted they started the anti-inflammatory regimen over the last four years and there has yet to be a single post from any of them indicating vitamin D3 intoxication. Given the number of guests reading the main post on this regimen, I'd estimate at least another 300 guests have also started this regimen.

Data from the online survey of 127 CH'ers taking this regimen to prevent their CH indicates 83% of the participants experienced a significant reduction in the frequency, severity and duration of their CH. 60% of them reported they've remained pain free while taking this regimen, yet none of them reported any vitamin D3 toxicity.

A recent open label year long RCT involving 45 people with remitting recurring multiple sclerosis (RRMS) taking escalating doses of vitamin D3 from 4,000 IU/day up to 40,000 IU/day and a 25(OH)D maximum response of 410 nmol/L, (164 ng/mL) in six week increments resulted in no cases of vitamin D3 intoxication.

The average adult with fair skin can generate 15,000 IU of cutaneous vitamin D3 in as little as 10 minutes if exposed to the UV-B in mid day sun, clad in a bathing suit without any sun block.

Our bodies also have a number or regulatory mechanisms that maintain vitamin D3 and its metabolites at the proper concentrations even when we take a mega dose of 1 Million IU vitamin D3...

Regarding medical conditions where the anti-inflammatory regimen's vitamin D3 is possibly contraindicated... there are only two... Hyperparathyroidism, where an excess of parathyroid hormone in the bloodstream due to overactivity of one or more of the body's four parathyroid glands and sarcoidosis, an immune disorder.

If a CH'er had either of these two disorders, they would be well aware of any sensitivity to vitamin D3. I've been in contact with one CH'er with sarcoidosis and she worked with her doctor to find a safe and effective dose of vitamin D3.

The other two possible contraindications occur if a CH'er is taking a blood thinner like coumadin, (warfarine) a.k.a. rat poison... or taking verapamil as a CH preventative.

In the case of blood thinners, taking vitamin K1 requires close medical supervision... However, if you read the list of supplements in this regimen, you'll see that vitamin K2 is suggested... not vitamin K1. Vitamin K2, a.k.a. the menaquinones, MK-4 and MK-7 have no impact on blood clotting...

In the case of verapamil, taking calcium supplements can in some cases, reduce verapamil's effectiveness as a CH preventative... I look at this possible contraindication in simple terms... If verapamil isn't effective in preventing your CH, taking the anti-inflammatory regimen isn't going to change verapamil's effectiveness... but this regimen could help prevent your CH.

Can you take too much vitamin D3? Of course... you can also drink too much water and that's proved fatal for a few people with a complete lack of common sense who took a dare to drink a gallon of water...

In the history of the FDA's database of adverse reactions, there hasn't been a single death attributed to vitamin D3... Unfortunately that cannot be said for verapamil, sumatriptan succinate (imitrex), prednisone, lithium and all of the anti-psychotic medications prescribed for cluster headache.

Is vitamin D3 used in rat poison? Yes, but you need to read the label carefully. For starters, this form of rat poison is used to combat anti-coagulant resistant rats and mice... In simple terms, these rats and mice are resistant to warfarin a.k.a., coumadin, another rat poison frequently prescribed to people to prevent blood clots...

What is really interesting is the vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) Rat LD50 oral = 43.6 mg/kg by weight. The LD50 is a common measure of toxicity where a lethal dose (LD) results in the death of 50% of the animals taking the substance.

As the average rat (Rattus Norvegicus) weighs 300 grams, (~10.5 ounces), the LD50 works out to 13 grams of vitamin D3.

In order to convert the 13 grams to International Units, (IU) we first convert grams to micrograms (mcg). As 1 mcg is one millionth of a gram, we multiply the number of grams by 1,000,000 so that works out to 13,000,000 mcg of vitamin D3.

As one mcg of vitamin D3 equals 40 IU, we need to multiply 13,000,000 mcg of vitamin D3 by 40 to convert to International Units (IU). Doing the math... 13,000,000 mcg X 40 IU/mcg = 520,000,000 IU of vitamin D3... Yes, a 10.5 ounce rat needs to eat 520 million IU of vitamin D3 to reach the LD50.

To put that in further perspective in more familiar terms, a 10.5 ounce rat could eat all 300 of the 5,000 IU vitamin D3 liquid gel caps in a bottle of Nature's Bounty vitamin D3, 1,500,000 IU, and the only thing that would happen is you'd have a very healthy rat... In other words, it wouldn't hurt the rat...

I don't know about you... but I find it amazing that a rat needs to eat 520 Million IU of vitamin D3 in order to reach the LD50 dose... The way I see it, if a rat eats half that much, you've got a very healthy rat... Shocked

Remember, the suggested maintenance dose of vitamin D3 is 250 mcg/day, or 10,000 IU/day...

A few other LD50s for humans to ponder...

The LD50 for water is 6 liters
The LD50 for alcohol is 13 Shots (1 shot = 45 ml, of 40% alcohol by volume).

I hope this discussion puts the safety of vitamin D3 at the doses we take to prevent CH in perspective...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Mar 10^th, 2015 at 5:54pm by Batch »

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Peter510 CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give out... But don't give in. Posts: 966 Wexford. Ireland Gender:	Re: D3 sanity check Reply #5 - Mar 10^th, 2015 at 2:10pm Batch, That's one of your best posts yet...... And it needed to be said!!!!! Peter.
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Batch

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #6 - Mar 10^th, 2015 at 8:59pm

JMcW,

Welcome to CH.com and the anti-inflammatory regimen... I think you've already discovered these were two very good decisions.

I forgot to answer your questions in my last post. What you intend to take sounds just fine... except I didn't see any vitamin A (retinol). This is an important part of the anti-inflammatory regimen as it's essential in the genetic expression we think is responsible for the vitamin D3 CH preventative effect. You may have sufficient retinol in your system at this point, but continued use of vitamin D3 will drain that reserve eventually.

You don't need to take 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 at this point, but I wouldn't rule out taking that much in the future.

The rationale for taking 10,000 IU/day is simple. 5,000 IU/day vitamin D3 results in an average 25(OH)D response of 60 ng/mL, (150 nmol/L). This is sufficient for roughly 50% of the CH'ers to remain pain free or experience a significant reduction in the frequency, severity and duration of their CH...

Unfortunately, a 25(OH)D serum concentration of 60 ng/mL, provides no real 25(OH)D reserves. A cold, the flu, a bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, trauma or surgery would result in an immune system response that will gobble up available 25(OH)D leaving too little left to prevent CH...

That's why I suggest taking 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 as this results in an average 25(OH)D response of 80 ng/mL, (200 nmol/L) with sufficient reserves to handle any immune system response and still remain CH pain free.

Of course the prudent course of action is to see your PCP or neurologist after you've been on this regimen for at least 30 days at the same dose and hopefully pain free. that way you'll know your target serum concentration of 25(OH)D and the maintenance dose of vitamin D3 to keep you there.

Hope this helps.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Mar 10^th, 2015 at 9:01pm by Batch »

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Glassman CH.com Veteran Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 203 Ohio Gender:	Re: D3 sanity check Reply #7 - Mar 10^th, 2015 at 10:19pm I was wondering when you'd get around to clarifying that Batch! Very useful information! Oh! and P.S. today makes three days pain free! ...takin' it one hour at a time... Gary
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Batch

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #8 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 12:57am

Gary,

Hmm... 3 days pain free... I know the feeling... I was pain free by the second day taking this regimen and I kept pinching myself for the next two weeks thinking YGBSM... It can't be that simple... but it was...

Some time around then, I stopped taking this regimen to see what would happen... The beast came storming back in less than 24 hours... That was enough for me... I stayed on this regimen for nearly 13 months without missing a dose before I finally got brave enough to try another test of my 25(OH)D reserves... Seven days after stopping the complete regimen the beast jumped ugly on me...

Lesson learned and learned again...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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Peter510 CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give out... But don't give in. Posts: 966 Wexford. Ireland Gender:	Re: D3 sanity check Reply #9 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 2:24am That's great news Gary. Long may it last. Peter.
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lancashire Lad

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #10 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 6:59am

To advocate a high D3 regime and not warn of the risks is irresponsible to emphatically deny they exist is stupid.

When you don't know what's causing a problem it stands to reason that you don't know why something is alleviating the condition and it flows therefore that you don't know what harmful consequences might ensue........... until now

"High Vitamin D Levels Linked to Increased Risk of Death"

The Magazine Article

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The Study

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I will put some info with sources up here about what people with certain meds / conditions should look out for with high use of D3.

I have every sympathy for someone if they know the risks still taking something that may harm them in the long run if the benefit is to be free of utterly agonising pain. In that case it is free choice. The alternative is to be harmed out of ignorance.

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Glassman CH.com Veteran Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 203 Ohio Gender:	Re: D3 sanity check Reply #11 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 10:44am Thanks for that Peter! and Batch, Had to look up the meaning of YGBSM. Think I'll be adding that to my personal lexicon! Gary P.S. This morning is day four, no morning CH wake up call!
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JMcW

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #12 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 11:16am

Thanks Batch for your help, it's much appreciated.

I'm on day 3 now, I had an REM attack at 2am which I aborted with demand valve O2, some light shadowing this morning but nothing since then. I'm still going to stay on 5,000 iu D3 for a few more days but I've ordered more in case I need to up it. I also ordered Vit A - finally found some that is not in a face cream

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: D3 sanity check Reply #13 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 3:09pm After reading this thread with much interest, I've decided to cut back to 3000iu Vitamin D-3 daily, then get a 25(OH)D in a months time to see where my level sits. Hoppy.
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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #14 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 8:56pm

Hoppy,

It appears you’ve a good plan… I wish you good luck… The most important part of your plan is knowing your 25(OH)D serum concentration.

It’s been my experience as a long time chronic CH’er and over four years taking this regimen, that any time I drop my vitamin D3 intake below 5000 IU/day or let my 25(OH)D serum concentration fall below 60 ng/mL… I get whacked.

If you interpolate between the vitamin D3 doses and time course 25(OH)D response curves illustrated in the following chart developed by Dr. Robert Heaney, MD, you’ll see that 3,000 IU/day vitamin D3 results in an average 25(OH)D response of 45 to 50 ng/mL, (112 to 125 nmol/L).

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The following chart illustrates the 25(OH)D serum concentrations you should use. As CH’ers, we’re not “normal” so we fall into the “Treat Cancer and Heart Disease” category at 70 to 100 ng/mL. This same chart is supported by the vitamin D3 experts at the Vitamin D Council and Grassroots Health.

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Here in the heart of Puget Sound, we’re about to experience a major pollen dust storm from the Alder trees followed immediately by another dust storm of Maple pollen… When that happens, I need to up my vitamin D3 intake to 15,000 IU/day with a week or two at 20,000 IU/day to stay CH pain free.

Regarding Lancashire Lad’s latest quixotic joust at the vitamin D windmill and admonitions over vitamin D3 safety… I wouldn’t give them too much credence.

Once again he’s offered up a weak example with a flawed study and he failed to read the fine print at the bottom line... i.e., “The study did not allow inference of causality, and further studies are needed to elucidate a potential causal relationship between 25(OH)D levels and mortality.”

“Whether this was a causal or associational finding cannot be determined from our data.”

Got that??? Even the study authors were averse to attributing a causal relationship between their J shaped mortality curve and 25(OH)D…

The original 2012 CopD Study that attempted to illustrate a J shaped all-cause mortality curve as a function of 25(OH)D serum concentration was panned by vitamin D3 experts as being too narrowly focused on 25(OH)D serum concentrations and that it failed to examine other factors that could have easily confounded their results. The classic example is vitamin A (retinol). It has a very real J shaped mortality curve, but the researchers in Denmark didn’t address it.

The common practice in Europe has been to obtain vitamin D3 from cod liver oil… The unfortunate part of this practice is cod liver oil frequently contains large quantities of unregulated or poorly assayed vitamin A. Westernized populations often ingest more vitamin A than is advisable and up to 30% have circulating concentrations above the recommended maximum level (e.g. in NHANES111). High retinoid intakes have been associated with increases in mortality. 2 large Randomized Controlled Trials (RCTs) of vitamin A have had to be stopped due to an increased incidence of lung cancer and in cardiac deaths. Hmmm…

The latest version of The CopD Study that Lancashire Lad cited is essentially a rehash of the original study conducted in 2012, only this time they sliced and diced the data even more narrowly to show a J shaped relationship between 25(OH)D and cardiovascular disease mortality.

This was actually a retrospective, observational cohort study, where researchers performed a series of statistical analyses on laboratory data collected for other reasons. There were no other nutrient factors considered, like magnesium that has been found to be deficient in nearly all cases of cardiac disease mortality…

The simple analogy in the case of this study would be to relate driving to traffic fatalities… The figures are very stark making driving infinitely more dangerous than taking vitamin D3… However, if you include another important factor like the driver being impaired by alcohol or drugs, the mortality rate due to traffic accidents drops significantly.

There was another RCT involving 25(OH)D and risk of mortality due to acute coronary syndrome events conducted in Israel in 2013 that found no J shaped mortality curve yet came up with exactly the opposite conclusion as the CopD study.

The study data reported by Dror et al, on low 25(OH)D are supported by data that associate low 25(OH)D levels with poor health outcomes, including in acute intensive care environments.

Importantly, based on the frequency of the 25(OH)D values and the adjusted health risks, the attributable risk for mortality and acute coronary syndrome events is 31.8% for 25-OH D values below 20 ng/ml (<50 nmol/L) vs 0.55% for 25-OH D values above 36 ng/ml (>90 nmol/L).

Thus, if one were to take these attributable risks at face value, it seems that the ratio of risk to benefit of indiscriminant vitamin D supplementation in an unscreened population would exceed 50:1.

Got that? The odds are 50 to 1 against you If your 25(OH)D serum concentration is <20 ng/ml (<50 nmol/L)…

Take care and please keep us posted on your 25(OH)D lab data.

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Mar 11^th, 2015 at 9:03pm by Batch »

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Hoppy

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #15 - Mar 12^th, 2015 at 5:58am

Hi Batch,
Thanq for your comment, and putting my mind at ease,
but having read Peter's post over and over lol, and
comparing the facts with yours, they seem to match
as to what your saying. So, I am a little worried about
going over 40ng/ml = 100nmol/L. My last test showed
67ng/ml, 167nmol/L, and been CH free for the past
two years maintaining that level, but I'm hoping, fingers
crossed it will stay that way at 40ng/ml. I will keep in
touch.

Cheers, Hoppy.

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lancashire Lad

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #16 - Mar 12^th, 2015 at 6:47am

Hi Hoppy

The good news is that D3 was working for you the bad news is if Vit D doesn't kill you something else will Wink

.

I think you are absolutely sensible, given the new study (full study attached below), to tritate your D3 intake to the lowest level to be effective for YOU. Clearly Batch has bigger needs.

Also below health warnings on elevated D intake

ATB

Peter

Health Risks from Excessive Vitamin D & Interactions with Medications

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A reverse J-shaped association between serum 25-
hydroxyvitamin D and cardiovascular disease
mortality – the CopD-study

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"The scientists studied the level of vitamin D in 247,574 people and analyzed their mortality rate over a seven-year period after taking the initial blood sample. “We have looked at what caused the death of patients, and when numbers are above 100 [nanomoles per litre (nmol/L)], it appears that there is an increased risk of dying from a stroke or a coronary,” study author Peter Schwarz, M.D. said in the press release.
As with most things in life, when it comes to vitamin D levels, it's all about finding a happy medium. “Levels should be somewhere in between 50 and 100 nmol/L, and our study indicates that 70 is the most preferable level," Schwarz says. (The National Institutes of Health comes in much lower with their number, stating that 50 nmol/L covers the needs of 97.5 percent of the population, and 125 nmol/L is a "dangerously high" level.)"

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #17 - Mar 12^th, 2015 at 6:06pm

Readers new to this discussion please sit back and relax, the next few exchanges could get even more interesting and possibly quite humorous.

I can’t say for sure, but it appears Lancashire Lad’s alarmist rants against vitamin D might be the result of a possible death fetish. It’s either that or Big Pharma has been putting something in his mush…

Why Big Pharma??? Well… Big Pharma suffers explosive anal leakage every time a gold standard RCT, conducted with real science, comes out with credible medical evidence that passes peer reviews with a finding that taking vitamin D3 is just as effective, if not more so at treating a medical condition than a patented pharmaceutical.

Studies like this represent a very real threat to Big Pharma’s multi-billion dollar a year bottom line developing drugs we don’t really need that carry greater risks than the medical conditions they’re used to treat. Statins are a classic example.

The simple fact is none of us is getting out of here alive… Accordingly, the rational approach to our continued existence is to maintain the highest quality of life possible while our bodies remain above room temperature. With a healthy diet, vitamin D3 and the cofactors can help do this.

Understanding the science of vitamin D3 is very important for all of us. That makes the real task, finding a credible group of scientists, nutritionists and physicians, expert in the field of nutrition and in particular, extensive clinical experience treating people with a vitamin D3 deficiency. When you do find them, follow their suggested guidance on how much vitamin D3 to take.

So who do your trust? On one hand we have the researchers who constructed and authored the CopD study in Denmark that Lancashire Lad keeps citing. They appear to be cut from the same stock as the man made global warming junk science alarmists who cooked their data to come up with the “Hockey Stick” man made global warming curve hoax… Yes… the earth is warming… How much is the real question.

For those of us living in the US and Canada, we also have apparently like-minded people at the National Institutes of Health, (NIH) Institute of Medicine (IOM) who cooked the data in order to set the Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDA) for vitamin D3 at 600 IU/day… Remember the IOM falls under the same liberal progressive political appointees at HHS and charlatans like Gruber, who think you’re stupid when it comes to healthcare… so now we have obamacare…

Why is the RDA for vitamin D3 at 600 IU/day a big deal? Simple. IOM recommendations have important effects on a wide array of government programs. These include nutritional standards for US military, for school lunch programs, for WIC and many others, both in the United States and in Canada.

The RDA for vitamin D3 is also used by regulatory agencies in both the US and Canada… As a dose of vitamin D3 this low results in a very low, if not zero 25(OH)D response, there’s no need for 25(OH)D lab tests…

That means medical insurance companies don’t need to pay for these diagnostic lab tests… CH’ers in Canada have already discovered this problem… It also means if doses of vitamin D3 this low are effective (they’re not), the regulatory agencies like the FDA can step in and ban over the counter sales of vitamin D3 at strengths greater than 1000 IU/day as they’re not needed… This has already happened in most countries across Europe, the UK, Scandinavia, Australia and New Zealand.

If you think that can’t happen here in the US… think again, then consider the fact that big government, nanny state, liberal progressive bureaucrats at Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, (CMS) have already denied coverage for medical oxygen as a cluster headache abortive to Medicare beneficiaries suffering from cluster headache… I still have scars from two dust-ups with these bureaucrats over this non-coverage determination.

Who benefits when this happens? Certainly not us… I’m of the opinion Big Pharma, their minions in government and the medical profession, and the medical insurance companies all benefit from regulatory decisions like this.

If you don’t believe me, follow the money… Too many “noted” physicians as well as politicians on both sides of the isle in Congress are recipients of funding from Big Pharma… See the following links then ask yourself why would Big Pharma spend this kind of money on physicians and politicians?

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In all fairness, it’s a fact of life that physicians receive payments from Big Pharma to conduct RCTs… What we would hope for from these physicians, is an unbiased and objective approach in developing and conducting these RCTs as well as in analyzing and reporting the results…

On the other hand we have a group of eminent experts, scientists, physicians and nutritionists who are all Jedi Masters of vitamin D… and more importantly, who are not on the take from Big Pharma…

The experts I trust in matters involving vitamin D3 include: Dr. Robert Heaney, M.D., Reinhold Vieth, Ph.D., Dr. John Cannell, M.D., Bruce W. Hollis, Ph.D., Dr. Michael F. Holick, Ph.D., M.D., and the list goes on… You can find articles and studies conducted by these experts at the Vitamin D Council and Grassroots Health web sites as well as the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

So how much vitamin D3 should we take to reach the RDA?

Canadian statisticians used the same data the IOM used but they came up with an RDA of 8,895 IU/day vitamin D3… That’s over 100 times more than the IOM RDA. Dr. Heaney and his colleagues analyzed data from the Grassroots Health D* Action Study of over 10,000 people taking vitamin D3 from 600 IU/day to over 10,000 IU/day and reporting their 25(OH)D lab results. Using this data, they calculated a value close to 7000 IU/day as the RDA for vitamin D3.

Please understand that the RDA is defined as the amount of vitamin D3 that ensures 97.5% of the people taking it achieve a 25(OH)D serum concentration of at least 20 ng/mL. Also recall this RDA is for otherwise healthy people… As CH’ers, we’re not among this group so we need more vitamin D3 and a higher 25(OH)D serum concentration to stay CH pain free.

So there you have it… Chicken Little on one side saying vitamin D3 can kill you and the real vitamin D experts on the other side who say 7000 to 8900 IU/day vitamin D3 meets the RDA. You decide…

If you want to read some real science on this topic, check out the following link by Dr. Robert Heaney, M.D.

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Take care,

V/R, Batch

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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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Hoppy

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Posts: 1890
Perth WA
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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #18 - Mar 12^th, 2015 at 8:04pm

I found this comment that could apply to me and my CH's
seeing that the Smiley

only paid me a visit
during the months of Spring and Autumn (Fall). We are
now in Autumn here down under, and no sign of the
Smiley

yet, which I attribute to Batch and
his Vitamin D remedy Smiley

. So, theirs
no way in the world I'm going to quit now.

vitamin D levels in the central nervous system affect the production of both serotonin and dopamine, and vitamin D3 and vitamin D2 responsive elements are found throughout the midbrain regions and are especially concentrated in the hypothalamus, a region that encompasses the circadian timing systems and much of its neural circuitry.

Best, Hoppy.

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Batch

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O2 & D3 You Must

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #19 - Mar 12^th, 2015 at 8:25pm

Hoppy,

The available vitamin D3 genetic evidence to date regarding genetically expressive vitamin D3 receptors (VDR) and vitamin D3 response elements (VDRE), along with the highest concentrations of 1α-Hydroxylase (CYP27B1), the enzyme responsible for the synthesis of the biologically active form of vitamin D (1,25(OH)(2)D(3)), are found in nerve cells within the brain at the highest concentrations within the trigeminal ganglia and the hypothalamus...

How about that! A clear, verifiable link between vitamin D3, the trigeminal ganglia and the hypothalamus...

Yet the cluster headache experts have yet to acknowledge these facts... and instead, are out doing studies on monoclonal antibodies that have an appetite for calcitonin gene-related peptides (CGRP)...

Why? There's no money in a USP vitamin that cannot be patented, but lots of money available for patentable monoclonal antibodies... CGRP is elevated in CH'ers and migraineurs during active headache pain phases...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:14am by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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Hoppy

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #20 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:26am

This is the warning on the Vitamin D, I take daily.
Biovea 5000iu GMP compliant.

Warnings:

• The risk of overdose is not present with natural exposure to sunlight, because the skin's capacity to produce vitamin D is self-limiting (skin production is thought to reflect the dose of vitamin D to which our evolution optimised human biology). In contrast, care should be given to limit oral intake for infants to no more than 1000 IU (25 mcg) daily, or for adults no more than 10,000 IU (250 mcg) daily.
• If you are pregnant or lactating consult a health care practitioner before using Vitamins D.
• Occasional side effects reported with large doses of Vitamin D include a disorder known as hypercalcemia, which causes calcium deposits in soft tissues. Signs of the disorder include headache, weakness, nausea, vomiting, confusion, kidney problems and constipation. Consult a health care practitioner if you experience any of these symptoms while taking Vitamin D.

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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #21 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 2:32am

Hi

Vitamin D3 is not toxic in large doses but the synthetic Vitamin D2 is.

In the Danish studie the old people with a vitamin D level above 50 ng/ml had probably got vitamin D2 injections to correct low vitamin D level and to treat osteporosis in combination with large doses of calcium. To much calcium is associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease.
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So don't take calcium supplement together with large doses of vitamin D. Wink

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"Vitamin D in the form of vitamin D(3) seems to decrease mortality in predominantly elderly women who are mainly in institutions and dependent care. Vitamin D(2), alfacalcidol, and calcitriol had no statistically significant effect on mortality. Vitamin D(3) combined with calcium significantly increased nephrolithiasis. Both alfacalcidol and calcitriol significantly increased hypercalcaemia."
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The man behind the Danish studie Peter Schwartz is Investigator for the pharmaceutical companies Amgen, Eli Lilly, Merck Sharp & Dohme, and shareholder of Novo Nordisk. Wink

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« Last Edit: Mar 13^th, 2015 at 2:49am by nhs »

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nhs CH.com Junior Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 63	Re: D3 sanity check Reply #22 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 3:02am Hoppy, I only take 5.000 IU vitamin D3 per day, together with magnesium and zinc and have been painfree for 6 years. My D level is 50 ng/ml year round.
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Peter510

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don't give in.

Posts: 966
Wexford. Ireland
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Re: D3 sanity check
Reply #23 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 3:46am

Hi there,

My Doctor ( a rare general practitioner who diagnosed my CH very quickly) researched the D3 regimen after I told him I was going to give it a try and is fully supportive.

When he checks my D3 levels he always checks my calcium levels too and is quite happy that the calcium levels are fine.

He also told me that it is very difficult to over use D3 and certainly not in the dosages Batch recommends.

I would trust my life with this guy and ( for me, anyway) the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The D3 regimen worked and is the only thing that has worked in 13 years.

Keep well,

Peter.

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You don't stop laughing because you grow old....You grow old because you stop laughing.

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: D3 sanity check Reply #24 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 5:00am Hi nhs, Thanks for the heads up, and after reading all the info on this thread, I've decided to stick with the 5000iu daily until my next check up, and then make a decision whether to lower it, depending on the numbers. My last test results, 67ng/ml 167.5nmol/L. Ideal I would like them to be around the 40-50ng/ml mark. Hoppy.
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