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jish

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Verapamil and D3 Regiment
Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 7:27am

Yesterday I started the full D3 Regiment (at 10,000IU of Vit D) so i've had to start taking my Verapamil in two doses of 120mg (One at 10.30am and One dose a 2.30am) instead of 3 doses of 80mg (at 10.30/16.30/23.00) so I can separate the Verapamil from the Calcium Citrate in the D3 Regime which i take with my dinner at 7pm.

The only problem is - for the second day running i'm getting heart flutters/mild palpitations for about 25 minutes a couple of hours after taking the 10.30am dose.

Anyone had a similar experience when slightly altering timing/dosage of Verapamil? Is it because my body is not used to taking 120mg of Verapamil at a time? I very occasionally got milder flutters, the odd ache here and there from the Verap before. They're not the worse palpitations i've ever had in my life but i just have to be cautious as i don't want to cause myself any harm.

FYI -My ECG when i started taking 80mg x 3 a day was fine.

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« Last Edit: Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 7:30am by jish »

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wimsey1 CH.com Alumnus Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 2457 MA Gender:	Re: Verapamil and D3 Regiment Reply #1 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 8:30am Don't mess with your heart! Call your doc immediately and describe your symptoms. Verapamil is a strong medication. lance
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Batch

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Re: Verapamil and D3 Regiment
Reply #2 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 12:54pm

Hey Jish,

Thanks for the headzup you've started the anti-inflammatory regimen. It appears you're doing everything right with respect to the supplements and dosing called for in this regimen.

However, you've got a lot of things going on starting this regimen while titrating up on verapamil at the same time... and heart flutters/palpitations are not a normal reaction to either the anti-inflammatory regimen or verapamil. If they continue, contact your neurologist.

In the mean time, given the potential interaction between calcium supplements and verapamil which can reduce verapamil effectiveness, even with a reasonable interval between doses of each, you may want to skip the calcium for a week or two to let things settle down.

The role of calcium supplements in this regimen is primarily insurance against loss of bone mineral density (BMD) while taking vitamin D3 at therapeutic doses. Taking vitamin D3 at these doses increases calcium absorption and the rate of calcium turnover in bone mineral density. If there's insufficient calcium from dietary sources, calcium homeostasis can and will pull calcium from bones.

That said, as most of us take in adequate calcium from dietary sources, skipping the calcium part of this regimen for a few weeks shouldn't pose any problems. In addition, there is more than ample evidence from gold standard clinical trials that the combination of vitamin D3 and vitamin K2 (MK-4 & MK-7) has a synergistic effect on building BMD.

I've been taking vitamin K2 for more than two years. However, after reading through a number of RCTs involving the benefits of vitamin K2 on improving BMD and cardiovascular health, I came to the conclusion I wasn't getting enough so I did some more reading. As a result, I've been taking the Life Extension Foundation's Super K with Advanced K2 Complex for the last six months.

Hope this helps. Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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jish

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Re: Verapamil and D3 Regiment
Reply #3 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 5:15pm

Thanks for the reply Batch.

I'm going to have a word with my doctor about the heart palpitations but also while i'm there get a D3 Serum test done too before I start the D3 regime for real (I had only done the first D3 dose you see- then decided it'd be best if i checked things out with the doctor after having palpitations a second day after moving my verapamil doses around)

I think the palpitations were directly connected to changing my Verapamil to two doses of 120mg instead of 3 of 40mg as they occurred with identical symptoms 1hr30mins after taking the morning dose of Verap and before i'd even had my first D3 dose.

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« Last Edit: Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 5:16pm by jish »

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Batch

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Re: Verapamil and D3 Regiment
Reply #4 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 9:04pm

Hey Jish,

Thanks for the update and clarification... I was pretty sure verapamil was the culprit... It was the possible interaction from calcium that kept me from saying so...

We've not had any comments from CH'ers about heart problems in three years with over 400 CH'ers taking the anti-inflammatory regimen... so I was sure it wasn't the rest of the regimen.

You can start this regimen as soon as you've had the blood draw for the 25(OH)D lab test. No sense waiting for the results... A coke and candy bar says you're vitamin D3 deficient...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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blacklab

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Re: Verapamil and D3 Regiment
Reply #5 - Jan 25^th, 2014 at 2:24am

jish, seeing your doctor is as everyone has said the best course of action here
my first neuro prescribed 80 mg twice a day of fast acting verapamil and I was a mess, couldn't work got heart flutters and he put meon them and told me to come back in 12 months
I changed neuro's and she immediately took me of the fast release onto slow release and all was good. my blood pressure was so low when i walked into the doctors they made me stay there for a couple of hours and monitored me until I came right, my blood pressure is on the low side and I put up with feeling like absolute crap for about 3 weeks before I new I had to get looked at. im on only 180mg at the moment, have been on up to 270mg and that's as high as my body can tolerate. apparently monitoring of blood pressure when first going on to verapamil is a pre requisite, so please go back to your doctor and get it sorted please. something not to be messed with....
goodluck
colin

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jish CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 20 London, England Gender:	Re: Verapamil and D3 Regiment Reply #6 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 12:51pm I had the blood test the other week for my vitamin d level and i got 44 - which apparently puts me somewhere in the middle and not suffering from a Vit D deficiency right? Would the D3 regimen be of any benefit to me?
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Batch

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Re: Verapamil and D3 Regiment
Reply #7 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 1:10pm

Hey Jish,

A 25(OH)D serum concentration of 44 ng/mL is classified as deficient by many of the experts in vitamin D3 therapy and endocrinology...

Moreover, CH'ers who reported a cessation of their CH after starting the anti-inflammatory regimen and then went in for the 25(OH)D lab test averaged 78 ng/mL with a range of 60 to 110 ng/mL.

Accordingly, the answer is yes, the odds are in your favor that going on the anti-inflammatory regimen will control and even prevent your cluster headache.

If you're taking verapamil, skip the calcium part of this regimen for a few weeks.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Feb 13^th, 2014 at 1:10pm by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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RickJim CH.com Junior Offline Giving up is not an option. Posts: 28 Vancouver, British Columbia Gender:	Re: Verapamil and D3 Regiment Reply #8 - Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 8:59am This is an old thread - but I have a follow up question: so it is okay to skip Calcium for a few weeks when you are taking 10,000 IU/day of Vitamin D3. However, how if you are doing the initial load of 50,000 IU/day for 2 weeks? Would that be so detrimental for your bones without the calcium?
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Peter510 CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give out... But don't give in. Posts: 966 Wexford. Ireland Gender:	Re: Verapamil and D3 Regiment Reply #9 - Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 9:55am RickJim, See you post on the other thread. Peter.
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