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VA and my evolving beast (Read 4721 times)
LukeC
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VA and my evolving beast
Jan 28th, 2013 at 5:01pm
 
Hello Everyone,

  First off I just want to say thanks to everyone here and especially to those who run this site.  It has been the greatest source of help for me.

  My situation is a little more complex than usual since I get all my cluster headache related meds from the VA (was active for 6 years, now a reservist in the Navy).  They have been (for the most part) trying to keep me at just pills and nothing else for awhile now, but I am finding that now my headaches are evolving into stronger/more frequent beasts that can fight through my meds.  Now I am out of meds and can't get anymore until after my checkup on Feb 11, and I am in utter fear of getting my next one. 

  My meds are as follows:
       25mg Sumatriptan (taken to abort headache, max of 2 a day)
       240mg Verapamil (Taken once daily as a preventative)
       I was given a trial pack of .6mL Injectable Sumatriptan, but very quickly ran through those.  They were 100% effective in beating each headache I got within minutes.  However, they were $4 a pop on my part.

  Has anyone else been in this kind of situation where you have had to deal with the VA for your medication/treatment?  If so, how did you convince them to prescribe more effective treatments?

Thanks for your time and any advice you have!
-Luke
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LukeC
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #1 - Jan 28th, 2013 at 5:04pm
 
I also forgot to mention that I take a lot of Excedrin to help out, and have found .15% Capsaicin Topical Analgesic Liquid applied to my right temple (nearest my pain) to be a bit effective, even at a hit or miss chance.
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Guiseppi
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #2 - Jan 28th, 2013 at 5:37pm
 
I can't help you with the VA. I was a Kaiser patient for many years and learned quickly how to be a squeaky wheel! Your verapamil does is low, a few get relief at that level but 480 is probably a better middle point with some going to 960 a day to get relief.

Consider switching to oxygen as your primary abortive. Works as fast as the trex shots for me, infinitely cheaper and easier in the body too.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

This link will show you how to get set up with welding oxygen. It's the same stuff that comes outta the medical bottles but a loit cheaper:

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Then get started on the Batch regimen. Follow this link  to the medications section of this board and read the post  Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

It’s a vitamin/mineral/fish oil supplement, all over the counter stuff, that’s providing a lot of relief for people who have tried it, it’s healthy for you even without CH! It's kept me off cycle for 3 years, my story is not unique so please give it  a try. Might make all your other concerns a non issue.

Joe
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LukeC
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #3 - Jan 28th, 2013 at 5:53pm
 
Joe,
  Thanks for the info!  I am going to talk to my doc about oxygen and push that hard, also will talk to him about upping my Verapamil dosage.  I tried the vitamin/mineral/fish oil remedy a while back but it didn't do anything for me.  I really want to get the oxygen thing going though because it seems to be the most effective treatment out there, and shouldn't cost the VA much of anything.  Thanks again!

-Luke
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #4 - Jan 28th, 2013 at 6:09pm
 
How long did you try the vitamin D3 regimen, what components did you take, and in what quantities?

Getting O2 is great, but wouldn't it be better if you never had to abort another attack?
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Guiseppi
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #5 - Jan 28th, 2013 at 6:13pm
 
A widely used protocol. print this oout and bring it with you to the VA. Your doc will recognize the source and author, it might help in your discussions with your doc :

Headache. 2004 Nov;44(10):1013-8.   

Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients.

Blau JN, Engel HO.


    Background.-Verapamil is currently the best available prophylactic drug for patients experiencing cluster headaches (CHs). Published papers usually state 240 to 480 mg taken in three divided doses give good results, ranging from 50% to 80%; others mention higher doses-720, even 1200 mg per day. In clinical practice we found we needed to adapt dosage to individual's time of attacks, in particular giving higher doses before going to bed to suppress severe nocturnal episodes. A few only required 120 mg daily. We therefore evolved a scheme for steady and progressive drug increase until satisfactory control had been achieved. Objective.-To find the minimum dose of verapamil required to prevent episodic and chronic cluster headaches by supervising each individual and adjusting the dosage accordingly. Methods.-Consecutive patients with episodic or chronic CH (satisfying International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) were started on verapamil 40 mg in the morning, 80 mg early afternoon, and 80 mg before going to bed. Patients kept a diary of all attacks, recording times of onset, duration, and severity. They were advised, verbally and in writing, to add 40 mg verapamil on alternate days, depending on their attack timing: with nocturnal episodes the first increase was the evening dose and next the afternoon one; when attacks occurred on or soon after waking, we advised setting an alarm clock 2 hours before the usual waking time and then taking the medication. Patients were followed-up at weekly intervals until attacks were controlled. They were also reviewed when a cluster period had ended, and advised to continue on the same dose for a further 2 weeks before starting systematic reduction. Chronic cluster patients were reviewed as often as necessary. Results.-Seventy consecutive patients, 52 with episodic CH during cluster periods and 18 with chronic CH, were all treated with verapamil as above. Complete relief from headaches was obtained in 49 (94%) of 52 with episodic, and 10 (55%) of 18 with chronic CH; the majority needed 200 to 480 mg, but 9 in the episodic, and 3 in the chronic group, needed 520 to 960 mg for control. Ten, 2 in the episodic and 8 in the chronic group, with incomplete relief, required additional therapy-lithium, sumatriptan, or sodium valproate. One patient withdrew because verapamil made her too tired, another developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and the drug was withdrawn. Conclusions.-Providing the dosage for each individual is adequate, preventing CH with verapamil is highly effective, taken three (occasionally with higher doses, four) times a day. In the majority (94%) with episodic CH steady dose increase under supervision, totally suppressed attacks. However in the chronic variety only 55% were completely relieved, 69% men, but only 20% women. In both groups, for those with partial attack suppression, additional prophylactic drugs or acute treatment was necessary. (Headache 2004;44:1013-1018).

=======================================
SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL

Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. “This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil,” Dr. Sheftell noted.

“I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache,” he said. “I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.”

Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. “There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience,” Dr. Sheftell commented


Joe
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Mike NZ
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #6 - Jan 29th, 2013 at 12:15am
 
LukeC wrote on Jan 28th, 2013 at 5:04pm:
I also forgot to mention that I take a lot of Excedrin to help out.


Excedrin contains acetaminophen (paracetamol), aspirin, and caffeine.

Be really careful about how much of this you take to avoid overdosing on the paracetamol which can cause serious liver damage, even death, at relatively low doses. Do read and strongly respect the limits for how many tablets to take a day.

Also if you use such medication more than about 10 days a month you're likely to get rebound headaches from the medication itself.
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wimsey1
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #7 - Jan 29th, 2013 at 7:49am
 
I only wanted to add two things to all of the advice you've been given so far. First, see the imitrex tip at the left. It allows you to use an autoinjector while still breaking up the dose into two or three doses. Typically we do not need the entire 6ml but find 2 or 3ml will do it instead. That stretches out the life of a single vial. Second, we have found that when caffeine is coupled with taurine (as in energy drinks) it can reduce the severity and rebound of an attack, especially if chugged at the start of a hit. I prefer Monster but others prefer Red Bull, Rock Star, etc. Do explore the O2. It is the best! blessings. lance
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Samiam
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #8 - Jan 29th, 2013 at 8:06am
 
Hi, I know just how you are feeling.  What I can say or at least contribute is. I'm doing the Batch regiment.  I had always taken the D3 5000 ui and Omega 3 1200 ui but was advise to take this higher.  I did and I'm on my second week of a much higher dose and so far the hit was due for and the shadows that I was feeling have stayed just that shadows. I'm now taking 10,000 vitamin D3 and 2400 Omega 3 and for me magnesium 1600 mgs I would not do the magnesium in this level until you worked up.

The Batch regiment is something that has to be taken for a long time (at least months).  Even if you feel it's not working still take it.  The secret is getting your D3 to at least over 70 more like 100 confirmed with blood tests.  It has been proven with a higher vitamin D3 level your immune system is enhanced. So just taking it will give added benefits.

Watch taking the Excedrin I know how easy this is to fall into when you don't have the meds that you require to take you through the cycle but this is also known to cause rebound h/a's not a fun spot to be in.  What I mean by this is, the very med your taking will actually produce the very h/a your trying to abort. (I was hospitalized for doing this early on with Fiorinal for rebound)

When pregnant here is what I did since I did not have any meds not even Tylenol, and oxygen was not known at that time.

Ice packs,
magnesium taken at night
I would go outside and breath very deeply and fast and almost try to hyperventilation.
I did a lot of pacing.  And above all I had someone with me not that they could do anything but I was afraid and I know plenty of grown men that the beast will bring them to their knees and they are scared also. Nothing wrong with this.  Support is key.
Hubby would brew me strong coffee as soon as it would hit.
Look all of this took place about 17-20 yrs ago.  We have come so far and there is more to work with including this site.  This is all I had at the time when pregnant.  They did give me Stadol but I refused to use it.

My hits would come in the middle of the night (try jumping out of bed the size of a house and do all of this  Wink) My hits lasted about an hour every day.

Start the Batch regiment.  I don't care if you think it works or not, it's not a quick fix but may help you the next time whether or not you cycle every year or so.  At the very least it cost pennies and you have nothing to lose.

Push and I mean push for the O2.  Print out info about the first line of defense for Cluster's which will state drugs and doses required along with O2 for Clusters..  This may be enough to sway them in your direction.

I'm wishing you pain free days and nights.
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LukeC
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #9 - Jan 29th, 2013 at 11:56pm
 
Thanks to everyone for the advice!  I am going to start back up on the batch treatment (possibly at higher doses than last time I tried) tomorrow.  Samiam, I have done the ice packs and hyperventilation tactic with surprising results.  I hyperventilated myself to the point where I couldn't functionally use my arms anymore and it actually killed that headache.  I am printing out all the info you guys have given me and will be grilling my doc for either much better treatment or a referral to someone who will.

You guys are the best!

-Luke
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #10 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 7:55am
 
How long did you try the vitamin D3 regimen, what components did you take, and in what quantities?

You didn't answer these questions. If you will, perhaps we can help you get it right in a shorter amount of time.
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #11 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 8:27am
 
Luke,

I have a friend who has VA benefits, and about the O2, you need to get in to see a pulmonologist. Get your primary care doc to refer you. They will prescribe O2 for  you, and they will do it for CH. They will deliver tanks, once prescribed, to your house, and supply you with a 15 LPM regulator. Read the oxygen info over to the left, and you will find a 25 LPM regulator works best, you will have to buy a 25 LPM, as the VA won't supply it, they currently don't have the research and proof that it works. We've taken the info to the O2 guy, and he read it, and agreed, but it's not in their protocol.

Get your primary care doc to refer you to a neurologist. They can get you verapamil, and imitrex injections. Read the imitrex tip to see how to split the shots. Pills are worthless, they don't work fast enough. The whole thing with the VA is getting referred to the right doc (specialties), as  your primary care isn't the expert (he/ she may think they are, but that's another story).

Using Batch's suggested regimen may be the way to go if you aren't having luck with the VA. They can be slow about things, and you have to keep bugging them sometimes.

As always, when trying a new regimen, as this one, it's a good idea to run it by your doc. We CH'ers take larger amounts of some things to make our lives easier to manage. You want to be sure you don't have any adverse reactions to anything.

Good luck with the VA.

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LukeC
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #12 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 10:29am
 
Brew,
  I had started the Batch regimen last summer for about a month.  From the re-reading I have done, I might need to try it longer and from what I gather, in higher doses of D3 than the 10,000 UI I was taking.  I also took the Fish Oil in 2,400 mg/day.  I am going to start taking the Calcium Citrate as well, however I read that I need to break up the Calcium and Verapamil that I take daily.

Purpleydog,
  Thanks for the info with the VA.  I am going to request both referrals if I don't get the answers I want and need.  I just hope I don't have to wait months to see the neurologist and pulmonologist.  These pills are only effective in any given amount of time so long as I have nothing in my stomach.
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #13 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 10:41am
 
I'd get the 25(OH)D serum test asap to find out where you're at. Then, if it shows what I suspect it'll show (not in the therapeutic range yet), I'd go for increasing your daily intake to 20,000 iu/day with a loading dose of 50,000 iu once per week.

These intake levels are still way below what you'd need to do to hit toxicity.
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LukeC
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #14 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 11:00am
 
I read that and there was one thing I was slightly confused on: what is a loading dose?  Is it a once/week mass dose?
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #15 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 11:12am
 
LukeC wrote on Jan 30th, 2013 at 11:00am:
I read that and there was one thing I was slightly confused on: what is a loading dose?  Is it a once/week mass dose?

Exactly. You wouldn't want to take 50,000 iu every day for an extended period, but it helps get your serum concentration up quicker.
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LukeC
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #16 - Feb 1st, 2013 at 1:02am
 
So just an update.  I went out and bought what I needed at Sam's Club for the Batch regimen and this is what I am taking as of this morning:

20,000 UI/day D3 in morning
1,400 mg x2/day Fish Oil in morning
240 mg/day Verapamil in morning

400 mg/day Calcium Citrate in afternoon
Once Daily Multivitamin in afternoon

I have my doc appt at the VA on the 11th of February, and now I am wondering if I should hold off on the batch regimen for now until I can get my Serum level analyzed.  I know my doc is going to want a panel of labs done, and I'm hoping that I can make my Serum level one of them.  Would it be better to hold off on the batch regimen until then, or continue with what I have going?  BTW, I got a visit from the beast today as well which forced me to run to the ER at the VA hospital.
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #17 - Feb 1st, 2013 at 7:13am
 
Don't wait - If you keep notes as to when you start and how much you're taking, and when you have the serum test done, Batch can help you calculate how long it might be before you start seeing lasting results.

Don't wait. Unless you're into the pain...in which case you wouldn't be here anyhow. Wink
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #18 - Feb 1st, 2013 at 12:33pm
 
Highflow 02 is a va approved abortive....they have provided mine on request..depends on the neuro your seeing....dont take no for an answer.
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #19 - Feb 2nd, 2013 at 3:16am
 
I'm going to be very firm with my doc and if I don't get what I need, I will demand a new doc.  I'm tired of the games.  I feel so much better now that I am loaded up with all this info and support!
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #20 - Feb 6th, 2013 at 5:54am
 
Do tell how it is working for you, the d3 regimen + O2 should be life-changers as they were for many on this board, keep us updated Smiley

And of course wishing you pain free days and nights! Smiley
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« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2013 at 5:54am by MattyAA »  
 
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LukeC
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #21 - Feb 21st, 2013 at 7:17pm
 
Just wanted to give everybody an update.  Since re-starting the batch regimen on January 31st with double the D3 dosage, I haven't had a full on cluster attack (I still feel the shadow, but nothing more).  I met with my VA doc and he tested my 25(OH)D serum level, haven't gotten the results back yet however.  We talked about how the injections work, pills don't and that I wanted to get on oxygen therapy, and he was all for it!  He even set me up with a CT scan and an appointment to meet with a neurologist (he is the one who will prescribe me the O2).  I'm am very hopeful now that I can go back to pain free in the future.  A huge thank you to all my friends on here who helped me with info and support, I don't know what I would have done without you guys!
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #22 - Feb 21st, 2013 at 7:51pm
 
Mike NZ wrote on Jan 29th, 2013 at 12:15am:
Also if you use such medication more than about 10 days a month you're likely to get rebound headaches from the medication itself.


Yes. Rebounds. I got those with Imitrex injections with less than 10 doses a month. The nasal spray (Zomig) seems to give me less rebounds, but I use it as little as possible.
Also, if you get O2, it is well worth it to order a good mask. My mask changed my life. I don't understand why I waited years to order one.
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #23 - Feb 21st, 2013 at 7:56pm
 
Yeah when I do get my supplies from the VA, that will be my number 1 priority, since I know they are going to give me a 15 lpm regulator and crap mask.  I am going to get the 25 lpm regulator
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Mike NZ
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Re: VA and my evolving beast
Reply #24 - Feb 21st, 2013 at 11:17pm
 
I can strongly recommend the Optimask - Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

A lot of people here use it to great effect, well worth every cent it cost.
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