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Indocin (Read 5032 times)
Akina
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Indocin
Jun 6th, 2012 at 4:41pm
 
So, at an appt with a headache specialist, it was recommended that we try Indocin (indomethycin), as a possible treatment for CH's. Now supposedly this medication is the go to medication for the bastard brother and sister of CH (SUNCT and paroxysmal hemicrania).

So here's my question: Has anyone ever tried this particular medication and if so, what would you say about it?

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CDog
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Re: Indocin
Reply #1 - Jun 7th, 2012 at 3:24am
 
I tried it, didn't help...
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tammygue
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Re: Indocin
Reply #2 - Jun 7th, 2012 at 4:38pm
 
I tried the indocin as well, at first it changed the times of my cycle and reduced the intensity but that only lasted a little while.  Make sure you eat and drink alot of water if you try it,  it is very hard on your stomach.

Tammy

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Bob Johnson
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Re: Indocin
Reply #3 - Jun 7th, 2012 at 4:44pm
 
I can only assume that your specialist is getting desperate to find something which works.

IF you have exhausted the current mainline meds, then give it a try but don't hold your breath.

How do you past treatments correspond to the PDF list, below?
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Akina
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Re: Indocin
Reply #4 - Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:22pm
 
Honestly, it's not the specialist getting desperate.  We haven't even tried half of the medications that are normally used to treat CH's.  Our specialist wanted us to think about trying it cause "it's a 1 out of a million chance" it would work for CH's.  His concern was that it had less adverse effects associated with it than lithium, and can also be used for a longer period of time.

I'm trying to figure out common side effects of it, because it's the main reason we cannot use Topramax due to it's most common side effects of weight loss and brain fog. (Husband already is on the margins of being underweight with his job, and brain fog is not conductive to learning a new language, his next job.)
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Indocin
Reply #5 - Jun 8th, 2012 at 5:08am
 
Where does your doc stand on using Verapamil as a longer term prevenive? It's generally recognized as the first line med for this purpose.

The experience here is that Top is not as effective and the side effects (termed "dopy max") is a limitation.

This is a wide used protocol for Verap:

Headache. 2004 Nov;44(10):1013-8.   


Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients.

Blau JN, Engel HO.


    Background.-Verapamil is currently the best available prophylactic drug for patients experiencing cluster headaches (CHs). Published papers usually state 240 to 480 mg taken in three divided doses give good results, ranging from 50% to 80%; others mention higher doses-720, even 1200 mg per day. In clinical practice we found we needed to adapt dosage to individual's time of attacks, in particular giving higher doses before going to bed to suppress severe nocturnal episodes. A few only required 120 mg daily. We therefore evolved a scheme for steady and progressive drug increase until satisfactory control had been achieved. Objective.-To find the minimum dose of verapamil required to prevent episodic and chronic cluster headaches by supervising each individual and adjusting the dosage accordingly. Methods.-Consecutive patients with episodic or chronic CH (satisfying International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) were started on verapamil 40 mg in the morning, 80 mg early afternoon, and 80 mg before going to bed. Patients kept a diary of all attacks, recording times of onset, duration, and severity. They were advised, verbally and in writing, to add 40 mg verapamil on alternate days, depending on their attack timing: with nocturnal episodes the first increase was the evening dose and next the afternoon one; when attacks occurred on or soon after waking, we advised setting an alarm clock 2 hours before the usual waking time and then taking the medication. Patients were followed-up at weekly intervals until attacks were controlled. They were also reviewed when a cluster period had ended, and advised to continue on the same dose for a further 2 weeks before starting systematic reduction. Chronic cluster patients were reviewed as often as necessary. Results.-Seventy consecutive patients, 52 with episodic CH during cluster periods and 18 with chronic CH, were all treated with verapamil as above. Complete relief from headaches was obtained in 49 (94%) of 52 with episodic, and 10 (55%) of 18 with chronic CH; the majority needed 200 to 480 mg, but 9 in the episodic, and 3 in the chronic group, needed 520 to 960 mg for control. Ten, 2 in the episodic and 8 in the chronic group, with incomplete relief, required additional therapy-lithium, sumatriptan, or sodium valproate. One patient withdrew because verapamil made her too tired, another developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and the drug was withdrawn. Conclusions.-Providing the dosage for each individual is adequate, preventing CH with verapamil is highly effective, taken three (occasionally with higher doses, four) times a day. In the majority (94%) with episodic CH steady dose increase under supervision, totally suppressed attacks. However in the chronic variety only 55% were completely relieved, 69% men, but only 20% women. In both groups, for those with partial attack suppression, additional prophylactic drugs or acute treatment was necessary. (Headache 2004;44:1013-1018).

=======================================
SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL

Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. “This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil,” Dr. Sheftell noted.

“I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache,” he said. “I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.”

Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. “There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience,” Dr. Sheftell commented.
====
One side effect the doc should be aware of:

J Headache Pain. 2011 Apr;12(2):173-6. Epub 2011 Jan 22.
Cardiac safety in cluster headache patients using the very high dose of verapamil (=720 mg/day).
Lanteri-Minet M, Silhol F, Piano V, Donnet A.
SourceDépartement d'Evaluation et traitement de la Douleur Médecine palliative, Pôle Neurosciences Cliniques du CHU de Nice, Hôpital Pasteur Avenue de la Voie Romaine, 06002 Nice Cedex, France. lanteri-minet.m@chu-nice.fr

Abstract
Use of high doses of verapamil in preventive treatment of cluster headache (CH) is limited by cardiac toxicity. We systematically assess the cardiac safety of the very high dose of verapamil (verapamil VHD) in CH patients. Our work was a study performed in two French headache centers (Marseilles-Nice) from 12/2005 to 12/2008. CH patients treated with verapamil VHD (=720 mg) were considered with a systematic electrocardiogram (EKG) monitoring. Among 200 CH patients, 29 (14.8%) used verapamil VHD (877±227 mg/day). Incidence of EKG changes was 38% (11/29). Seven (24%) patients presented bradycardia considered as nonserious adverse event (NSAE) and four (14%) patients presented arrhythmia (heart block) considered as serious adverse event (SAE). Patients with EKG changes (1,003±295 mg/day) were taking higher doses than those without EKG changes (800±143 mg/day), but doses were similar in patients with SAE (990±316 mg/day) and those with NSAE (1,011±309 mg/day). Around three-quarters (8/11) of patients presented a delayed-onset cardiac adverse event (delay =2 years). Our work confirms the need for systematic EKG monitoring in CH patients treated with verapamil. Such cardiac safety assessment must be continued even for patients using VHD without any adverse event for a long time.

© The Author(s) 2011. This article is published with open access at Springerlink.com

PMID:21258839[PubMed]
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Re: Indocin
Reply #6 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 7:12am
 
My husband has been on Verap by itself for the last year.  At levels above 480mg, he runs into issues with his blood pressure and heart rate taking a nose dive.  He already has naturally low blood pressure, so we kinda can't afford the risk of him "bottoming out".

The specialist is very worried about pushing the dose any higher.  It just won't do to have my husband passing out at 800 ft, right after he's jumped out of a plane.

Verapamil has worked wonders in the past at the higher doses, but I think it is something we will have to re-visit on a later date when job performance is not so vital.
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Re: Indocin
Reply #7 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 7:51am
 
A combinaton of Verp and Lithium has been used in tough cases, allowing for more modest doses of each.
---
Have this note but no details:

Experimental preventive. As of  3/16/10, no medical information on PubMed but this information from Dr. Goadsby.
He reports that docs in the Los Angeles area have been trying as a preventive when the standard ones are not working and that good results.

Namenda (memantine hydrochloride) used for Alzheimer's patients and has more use with migraine.

For Cluster, clearly experimental now. Start low, Val found relief after working up to 15mg. (I should not jump to use unless you have exhausted the standard preventives.)

Information from: Val, on 3/16/10, in medications section.
======
I've had excellent results with this one and, as the abstract notes, it may abort cycles. At doses Cluster requires, side effects not a  concern. Worth a trial for use 2-3 times will indicate whether it's effective.

Headache 2001 Sep;41(8):813-6 

Olanzapine as an Abortive Agent for Cluster Headache.


Rozen TD.
Department of Neurology, Jefferson Headache Center/Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, Philadelphia, Pa.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate olanzapine as a cluster headache abortive agent in an open-label trial. BACKGROUND: Cluster headache is the most painful headache syndrome known. There are very few recognized abortive therapies for cluster headache and fewer for patients who have contraindications to vasoconstrictive drugs. METHODS: Olanzapine was given as an abortive agent to five patients with cluster headache in an open-label trial. THE INITIAL OLANZAPINE DOSE WAS 5 MG, AND THE DOSE WAS INCREASED TO 10 MG IF THERE WAS NO PAIN RELIEF. THE DOSAGE WAS DECREASED TO 2.5 MG IF THE 5-MG DOSE WAS EFFECTIVE BUT CAUSED ADVERSE EFFECTS. To be included in the study, each patient had to treat at least two attacks with either an effective dose or the highest tolerated dose. RESULTS: Five patients completed the investigation (four men, one woman; four with chronic cluster, one with episodic cluster). Olanzapine reduced cluster pain by at least 80% in four of five patients, and TWO PATIENTS BECAME HEADACHE-FREE AFTER TAKING THE DRUG. Olanzapine typically alleviated pain within 20 minutes after oral dosing and treatment response was consistent across multiple treated attacks. The only adverse event was sleepiness. CONCLUSIONS: Olanzapine appears to be a good abortive agent for cluster headache. IT ALLEVIATES PAIN QUICKLY AND HAS A CONSISTENT RESPONSE ACROSS MULTIPLE TREATED ATTACKS. IT APPEARS TO WORK IN BOTH EPISODIC AND CHRONIC CLUSTER HEADACHE.

PMID 11576207 PubMed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Olanzapine has a brand name of "Zyprexa" and is a antipsychotic. Don't be put off by this primary usage. Several of the drugs used to treat CH are cross over applications, that is, drugs approved by the FDA for one purpose which are found to be effective with unrelated conditions--BJ.
=====
Since this abstract was first posted Zyprexa has appeared in some lists of recommended meds for CH. [BJ]
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Re: Indocin
Reply #8 - Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:21am
 
paroxysmal hemicrania can easily be mistaken for CH.  I think everyone should try indocin first thing to rule out CPH.  If it's CPH the indo should stop it within a couple of days.  If he really has CH the indo probably won't help.
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Re: Indocin
Reply #9 - Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:00am
 
Well said Bob!
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Re: Indocin
Reply #10 - Jun 11th, 2012 at 4:41pm
 
Funny thing...I was going to post on this very topic. At my last visit, my neuro laid out a new plan for me: continue with verapamil at 640mg, double lithium to 300mg, schedule a nerve block eval with Mass General, and hey, have you ever given indomethecin a try? I had not, not in 37 years of CHs, so I said let's try it. I was told if it was going to work it would be dramatic and immediate. Here's my problem: it is having an effect, while not eliminating my attacks, it has cut them back severely. I have gone from 2-4 a day, and 2-4 while trying to sleep, to 1 or 2 overall. For me that's pretty dramatic and welcome. I understand the range for indomethicin can be up to 150mg. I'm at 100-125mg right now. I am cautiously optimistic cuz I've seen relief come and go so many times. It doesn't seem to be acting the way it should if what I had was Indomethecin Responsive Syndrome, but it has helped some. Any thoughts?  blessings. lance
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Re: Indocin
Reply #11 - Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:52pm
 
I tried it, and it didn't help me. But we knew it was a longshot, esp since I had tried it once before. Lance, my neuro told me 150 a day (50mg every 8 hours) was the dose for ch's. I say if it has cut your attacks in half, then it is worth staying with it. We are all so different. I know they 'say' it should be dramatic and complete relief, but who is to say for sure? If it is helping you, then you should stick with it. I hope it will knock all the ha's out for you soon Smiley
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Re: Indocin
Reply #12 - Jun 22nd, 2012 at 9:29pm
 
Try it.  If you have been misdiagnosed and actually have one of the similar headache disorders it could work.  It will also clear up your eye redness.  But beware, it causes ulcers and heartburn.  I can't remember what sorts of food they recommend you eat with it, but I do remember the stomach pain.  Take it with food.
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Re: Indocin
Reply #13 - Jun 27th, 2012 at 6:53pm
 
My 18 year old daughter has had hemicrania continua (we think) for about 5 years now and although the indo has reduced the # of headaches ( works best when taken with Red Bull), it has started to wear through the lining of her espohagus and stomach. If you are on indo long term, you should ask for a proton pump inhibitor like Nexium for protection. The other thing to remember is that being on one means you don't absorb iron as well, so you would need to have that followed and maybe take supplements.
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