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new surgical procedure (Read 8046 times)
ariel
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #25 - Apr 13th, 2012 at 1:49pm
 
Its good to hear that he knows what he is doing, its just that I was going all the way to Cleveland to inquire about the nerve stimulators, not a block. I had a block done by a neurosurgeon 12 years ago in which they injected glycerol into the ganglion of my trigeminal nerve, and it didn't work at all. I was sedated & when I woke I had to be sitting up with my head taped to the bed in the recovery room for 5 hours & I kept getting HA's (my then husband kept sneaking me shots of imitrex). In fact, I had more HA's than ever after that procedure. So, now I'm not sure why my doc is sending me to him.
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #26 - Apr 13th, 2012 at 11:22pm
 
Right, right, I guess I didn't fully explain myself. Certainly my procedure and yours are very different. I could be wrong, but my point was that while he's obviously not a neurosurgeon, I get the feeling Stuart Tepper works in tandem with him all the time... Stanton Hicks is definitely Tepper's preferred guy for almost all of these procedures, and there must be a reason. I don't really know what pain anesthesiologists are trained in (I mean, the very specifics... I can gather that they anesthetize pain!), but I doubt you and I are the first two people Tepper has sent to him, and I get the impression he is well-versed in all of these things. Of course, it's not like the guy is my best bud and it's all purely conjecture but I'd just try not to worry too much about the fact he isn't a neurosurgeon if I were you.

In fact, here's a quote from his bio (on the CC page) in case you haven't seen it that might put you at ease: "Dr. Stanton-Hicks has been the principal investigator for numerous funded research projects. His primary areas of research are the movement disorder of complex regional pain syndrome (also known as reflex sympathetic dystrophy), pharmacologic aspects of pain management and the use of neurostimulation in pain medicine." Based on that fact and the fact that Tepper has such an affinity for him, I just don't think you have too much to worry about. Which I know is much easier said than done, believe me, but this seems to be a specialty of his.
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« Last Edit: Apr 13th, 2012 at 11:23pm by N/A »  
 
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ariel
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #27 - Apr 14th, 2012 at 11:30am
 
Thank you for that! I do feel a bit better about it now. I will be seeing him on the 25th & I really can't wait to see what he says. Its good to know that the stimulators are part of his research.
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #28 - Apr 14th, 2012 at 1:42pm
 
My question is:  Since you haven't really worked at trying the abortives (Oxygen) nor some of the more off-beat busters Why would you consider this unproven surgery?

        Potter
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ariel
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #29 - Apr 14th, 2012 at 2:42pm
 
Well, I know the oxygen works for many people, but it doesn't work for me. I have tried it quite a few times, most recently at the HA specialists office, set as high as it would go with the right mask. Also at a clinic, in the hospital while pregnant & at home. They also gave me an occipital nerve block at the same time & that didn't work either. I'm on prednisone, verapamil & depakote & still getting a lot of hits. I can't really do the busting, I am a single mother of an autistic boy and I just need to always have my facilities in order, so to speak. If I had someone to help me at home, I would consider it. And even now, I haven't completely ruled it out, if after this I am still as bad as I am. Sort of my last resort, though. I have tried all the other prevents as well, lithium, neurontin, norvasc, topamax, ritilin, methadone, various anti depressants, indomethacin, solumedrol treatments, nerve blocks all over trigger points on my head, daily triptan doses as a prevent, and many more meds that I can't even think of right now. The energy drinks didn't help either. I just need to do something. If I was getting relief from the steroids, I would just stay on a lowered dose, but for some reason it's just not working. Even my HA specialist has agreed that I need something more. I don't know, maybe it's wrong. Maybe I am being incredibly stupid in tossing so much money at something that may not work. Even some in my family think that. But I just want a chance at a normal life. You know, as much pain as I am in each day, and I know all of you will understand this, I would even be willing to live with it if there was some way to make sure I always had imitrex. But who would ever give me 2 or 3 vials a day? And how fast would I be bankrupt if I had to lay that kind of money out indefinitely? My biggest fear is not having that imitrex. Its such a terrifying thought to me, knowing that in my future could be days of 4 attacks each day & no imitrex. I would rather not live at all than suffer like that. Well, anyway, that's the best I can explain, I guess.
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Imitrex4Breakfast
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #30 - Apr 15th, 2012 at 5:26pm
 
The pharmacutical company will give you up to 12mg of Imitrex per day with the patient assistance program provided that your doctor or neuro fills out the paperwork AND that you at least attempt filing for disability (weather you get it or not). Your doctor along with the pharmacutical company CAN help you get those at NO COST.

I hear that some "Pain docs" are doing some stims, but I don't see them doing any major stims.

I am meeting with Dr. Andre G Machado on May 22nd. I was told by neuros at the Cleveland clinic that he is the main guy for the stimulators and a neurosurgeon. <?>

Quote:
Ariel,

If you're interested in adding Kudzu, you want to get Planetary Herbals kudzu and take 1500mg three times a day. That seemed to have the best chance of helping as shown in a paper done by Dr. Andrew Sewell.


Is this Dr. Andrew Sewell from the University of Louisville Neurology Department ??  Lips Sealed

I4B

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ariel
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #31 - Apr 15th, 2012 at 7:30pm
 
I hope it goes well for you in May. I tried calling Glaxo about the patient assistance program & they told me that they are no longer doing it for the injections. I couldn't find any other rx programs that were. Is it a different pharmacutical program?
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Imitrex4Breakfast
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #32 - Apr 16th, 2012 at 11:52pm
 
Mine was thru Glaxco many years ago. I didn't know they stopped that program and think that's BS! Each state also has a patient assistance program called "SHIP" (I believe that's the name. Again, many years ago) that may get needed meds for you for free.

Sorry Glaxco won't do it anymore. Maybe the makers of the generic form (Sumatriptan) could help ??

Good Luck !

I4B
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ariel
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #33 - Apr 17th, 2012 at 6:18am
 
I actually called glaxo back & they said they do it for the nasal spray. They will pay for 8 per month, but they also said you could mix it, so I will try for 8 of the 20mg & 8 of the 5mg spray bottles. I figured it would be better than nothing. Also, I called sandoz & novartis labs, they aren't offering any injectibles for their generic sumatriptan. But thank you, because it was after reading your post that made me decide to try again with glaxo. The first time I called them, they didn't even tell me about the nasal spray. At least, I don't think they did.
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ariel
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #34 - Apr 17th, 2012 at 2:30pm
 
Sorry, I made a mistake, they will allow 6 per month, of each strength. So, 6 20mg & 6 5mg sprayers, not 8.
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #35 - Apr 18th, 2012 at 6:39pm
 
Sorry, they gave me 60 (6mg)injectables /month at one time a long time ago. Good Luck Smiley

I4B
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ariel
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #36 - Apr 24th, 2012 at 2:41am
 
As if things couldn't get any worse. For some reason, half a shot of the new generic sumatriptan vials won't kill off a HA for me. I've used half a shot about 5 times now, and I end up taking the 2nd half within 10 minutes because it does nothing at all. I even had to take a 3rd half shot on one really stubborn one. This never happened with the brand imitrex. I don't understand, because I thought it was the same exact thing? It says sumatriptan right there on the label. Having to use full shots is going to kill me financially if they can't help me in Cleveland. Anyway my flight is today & my appt tomorrow. I really hope someone helps me. My life is pretty awful atm.  Cry
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #37 - Apr 24th, 2012 at 10:31am
 
ariel wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 2:41am:
As if things couldn't get any worse. For some reason, half a shot of the new generic sumatriptan vials won't kill off a HA for me. I've used half a shot about 5 times now, and I end up taking the 2nd half within 10 minutes because it does nothing at all. I even had to take a 3rd half shot on one really stubborn one. This never happened with the brand imitrex. I don't understand, because I thought it was the same exact thing? It says sumatriptan right there on the label. Having to use full shots is going to kill me financially if they can't help me in Cleveland. Anyway my flight is today & my appt tomorrow. I really hope someone helps me. My life is pretty awful atm.  Cry


i have had that on a few occasions with the generic as-well...what i have noticed,with the brand...it will abort on average appr.5-minutes...with the generic...15-20 minutes (if it does not kick in at the 20-minute mark,then i do another)...sorry that you are experiencing this.....Lenny
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Imitrex4Breakfast
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #38 - Apr 24th, 2012 at 10:36am
 
Keep in mind the dosage limits per an hour & per a day. Taking too much can cause serious and even deadly side effects. Be careful  Smiley

I4B
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #39 - Apr 26th, 2012 at 10:04am
 
Imitrex4Breakfast wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 4:52pm:
I wouldn't discard Brew's advice. Cluster 'busting' has been very effective for many. I Just watched another story about it on NATGEO.

I just returned from the Cleveland Clinic. There are 2 "Dr. Tepper's" there. My appointment was with Dr. Deberah (sp) Tepper, which (incoviently) relocated her office from the clinic to a hospital. I had to see a different doctor once there. (actually 2 neuro's came in to meet me) I was referred there for a "Deep Brain Stimulator" so I have another appointment with a neurosurgeon in late May. (right now the DBS is OFF the table IMO because my attacks are down in frequency and intensity due to Histamine Desensitization Therapy. (No major attacks at this time)

After seeing the neuro's and going thru all my past meds and treatments, they recommended .... KUDZU root. WOW! I was shocked to hear them say that. According to them, Cluster specific trials with KUDZU was very positive 'especially among chronics'.

Plz consider the alternatives before surgery (Both "Busting" and Brew's '123 days pain free' thread) and goodluck to you.

I4B

PS> to BREW: I'm getting ready to get the needed stuff to give your regimen a real try. I'll post and update later ... and thanks again.  Smiley


Sorry to get back to this, but did they provide the warning not to combine the use of Kudzu Root and any of the triptans? When I first joined the board, cluster sufferers were experimenting with Kudzu Root. But the thinking at the time was not to combine it with use of any triptans, because you may run the risk of serotonin syndrome. Not sure what further work in the area indicates, but as both you and Ariel appear to be using sumatriptan, thought I ought to mention it.
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ariel
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #40 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 7:41am
 
Thank you for letting us know that  Smiley
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #41 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 12:20am
 
Hi Ariel,

have you read Batch's thread 123 days and still counting? That is something to think about before surgery, if you have not read and tried it already. I've seen others mentioning it as well, but I'm not sure if you have tried it. Smiley

I read the long list of things you have tried in the past. I did not see two other things there as well, and do correct me, if I've mistaken: energy drinks and water treatment. Once you're off your current meds, do think about energy drinks, water treatment and Batch's advices before you try that surgery. I bet all of them will cost you a lot less than that consult alone.

Naturally, we're all different, and I'm so sorry that your ch is a persistent one. I do hope that you will find something that will truly help you reach PF time as soon as possible. Smiley

PF days,
Sanna
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ariel
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #42 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 12:28pm
 
Hello, thank you for your well wishes. I have been on Batch's d3 regimine since the last week of March. I've also tried the energy drinks and it didn't really make a difference with HA. I wish so much that it did. I've tried the single shot one's with extra taurine & caffeine & also Monster.
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #43 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 2:58am
 
Ariel,

Hang in there...  The anti-inflammatory regimen really works and the efficacy is much higher than the original 70%... 

Please try to get the lab test for 25(OH)D.  It will give you a good reference point.  Response times can vary from 12 hours to 45 days depending on your initial 25(OH)D level.  Most Ch'ers have responded with 25(OH)D levels between 60 and 110 ng/mL.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V.R, Batch
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #44 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 10:36am
 
Batch wrote on Apr 29th, 2012 at 2:58am:
Hang in there...  The anti-inflammatory regimen really works and the efficacy is much higher than the original 70%... 


I agree, it's worth sticking it out in the hopes that it might end up working.  I also think it's worth pointing out though, that even if that efficiency moves up to 80% or even 90%--that still leaves 10%-20% that it's not working for....

Is their anybody that you know and trust to babysit your son?  Even if it costs a lot, if you could get a day or 2 off and try the clusterbuster method at least you would know if it does anything for you.   The LSA containing seeds will not really intoxicate you much, most people just report a really good nights sleep.  (and absolutely no way of drug testing you)

On the imitrex issue--Many many people have confirmed what the drug companies try not to tell you--generic drugs are NOT the same as brand name drugs.  I remember when I was having seizures and on Dilantin.  Docs made sure I knew that I could not switch to the generic version or it would be very close to me going off my usual meds--they are close but not the same.  Another doc confirmed this with me, saying that he see's the biggest difference in thyroid meds.  I know I have seen a huge difference for me in the generic vs brand name sumatriptan too.

And thinking about Sumatriptan--Many people have thought that the imitrex may be giving them rebounds and/or changing their headaches in a not so great way.  It sounds like you are taking a lot of it...Have any docs considered the idea of Imitrex rebounds?  The only way I was able to get off  so much Imitrex was by starting intranasal ketamine--and I have noticed a huge difference.  It's always possible that the Ketamine is having a preventative effect (but I doubt it) or that all the sumatriptan was interfering with my clusterbusting effectiveness...but if I had to guess I really think a good bit of it was just plain old Sumatriptan rebounds.

-Ricardo
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #45 - May 1st, 2012 at 6:31am
 
hello, thank you for your reply. I am going to continue with it in the hope it will work. In the meantime, I have a scheduled spg block for may 24th. The surgeon in NYC has said he isn't too sure if it will help, since it seems to be more effective for people whose pain is mostly around the eye and above, but he won't do anything more invasive unless I try that first. He did say that it may help if my head pain part is a trigger point. I'm going to be in an OR and under anesthesia when it is done. Basically the same thing they said in Ohio. The Dr in Ohio seemed more optimistic, though. I'm going to do it because he is giving me a big break on the fee & because I am desperate. Plus it is temporary, so no harm really done I suppose if it doesn't work (except the chance of waking up with a severe HA). If it does work, they can do something more permanent. If it does'nt, then I think I will look into the other route if I can find someone to take care of my son for the weekend. I do agree that the imitrex may be causing rebounds. Its a tough situation to be in when you just don't have many options. I have found that the generic is working, it just takes 15 or 20 minutes. I have been trying to stick it out with just half the shot, but jeesh its so hard not to take more after 10 minutes, because I worry that it won't work after 10, then I will have another 20 mins to endure. The only good thing I really can say is my pain has gone down from a 10 with each attack to about a 7. A few days ago, out of desperation, I started taking OTC zyrtec, a once daily antihistamine. Only because I read smth about histamine somewhere & I figured it can't hurt. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or if the high dose of prednisone is helping with the intensity. Its most likely the prednisone, I would guess. But I can't be 100% sure unless I stop the zyrtec, and I'm a little scared to do that just yet. I'm sure all of you will understand that. I will soon, just not yet.
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #46 - May 1st, 2012 at 8:59am
 
Good luck.
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #47 - May 1st, 2012 at 9:43am
 
ariel wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 6:31am:
hello, thank you for your reply. I am going to continue with it in the hope it will work. In the meantime, I have a scheduled spg block for may 24th. The surgeon in NYC has said he isn't too sure if it will help, since it seems to be more effective for people whose pain is mostly around the eye and above, but he won't do anything more invasive unless I try that first. He did say that it may help if my head pain part is a trigger point. I'm going to be in an OR and under anesthesia when it is done. Basically the same thing they said in Ohio. The Dr in Ohio seemed more optimistic, though. I'm going to do it because he is giving me a big break on the fee & because I am desperate. Plus it is temporary, so no harm really done I suppose if it doesn't work (except the chance of waking up with a severe HA). If it does work, they can do something more permanent. If it does'nt, then I think I will look into the other route if I can find someone to take care of my son for the weekend. I do agree that the imitrex may be causing rebounds. Its a tough situation to be in when you just don't have many options. I have found that the generic is working, it just takes 15 or 20 minutes. I have been trying to stick it out with just half the shot, but jeesh its so hard not to take more after 10 minutes, because I worry that it won't work after 10, then I will have another 20 mins to endure. The only good thing I really can say is my pain has gone down from a 10 with each attack to about a 7. A few days ago, out of desperation, I started taking OTC zyrtec, a once daily antihistamine. Only because I read smth about histamine somewhere & I figured it can't hurt. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or if the high dose of prednisone is helping with the intensity. Its most likely the prednisone, I would guess. But I can't be 100% sure unless I stop the zyrtec, and I'm a little scared to do that just yet. I'm sure all of you will understand that. I will soon, just not yet.   

I don't understand anything you've posted.

         Potter
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #48 - May 1st, 2012 at 10:33am
 
My take on this is your desparate and in pain.. your are throwing too many things at this all at once..perhaps I am wrong but think about detoxing from some of these things and start with the most effective least invasive abortives and prevents...My expeirence is 02...doctors office only has 15 lpm..I use 40 lpm with an optimask. Prevents alternative and herbal are less invasive pharmacuticals. One thing at a time, do it well then move along. Doctors are practicing medicine when it comes to CH..There is no known cause,etiology, or cure....remember that. Just ask the doc. If your mixing pharmacuticals and herbals or altenatives they wont work. I see reasoning that paints yourself in the corner. I have done that myself. It is unreasonable to go to surgury without exhausting every other avenue of relief. Its your decision not the doctors. The best to you whatever you choose. I will pray for relief.
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Re: new surgical procedure
Reply #49 - May 3rd, 2012 at 10:56pm
 
Quote:
Sorry to get back to this, but did they provide the warning not to combine the use of Kudzu Root and any of the triptans? When I first joined the board, cluster sufferers were experimenting with Kudzu Root. But the thinking at the time was not to combine it with use of any triptans, because you may run the risk of serotonin syndrome. Not sure what further work in the area indicates, but as both you and Ariel appear to be using sumatriptan, thought I ought to mention it.


No, they did not mention this at all and they know I use BOTH Imitrex (at times) and DHE (almost daily). I also believe that Serotonin Syndrome is real, but harder to get for some people than others (depending on body chemistry and other factors) simply because I've used 10 Imitrex injections per a day before and the meds only helped (except for my raising my BP).
Thanks for this info though and I WILL definately ask them about this.

I4B
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