Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Clusterheadaches.com
 
Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegisterEvent CalendarBirthday List  
 





Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
New and need advice (Read 1813 times)
2012Clusters
CH.com Newbie
*
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 3
NJ
Gender: female
New and need advice
Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:01pm
 
Hi,

I'm new to my diagnosis of CH.  Only this December 2011 did I realize I had a pattern.  Talk about denial.  I've had a daily CH for ~10 wks straight as of today, with maybe 3 days where I had about 8 PF hours each.

Starting in December 2005 and Dec 2009 I also had headaches which were daily, lasting ~ 6wks each time.  I took Migrin that didn't work back then, as well OTC meds that never worked - eventually they just passed.

I was in total denial this time around until about January 2012.  I'm currently on short-term disability because I was ramped up to 100 mg Topamax which made me scramble my words/my writing/and lose my way in the car.  I couldn't do my job (frankly, still can't thanks to the CH).  I even mis-wrote my own name several times.  I thought I had a stroke it got so bad!  That's when I finally went to a neurologist at the Headache Inst. @ St. Lukes in NYC.  I'm from NJ.

Right away she knew I had CH.  She took me off of the Fiorcet which was causing me insane rebound headaches, off the Topamax (titrated over 4 wks).  And now, about 3 wks after being off "Dopamax", I'm no longer confused or scrambling my words and feeling more clarity.  I know this rx can help others, but for me it was a killer.  I'm also on B12 and Vitamin D supplements.

I also have controlled high blood pressure; but the doc switched me from Lisinopril to Verapamil 180 mg to address both conditions (only 3 days ago).

I also take Alsuma (Imitrex equivalent) almost daily, 1-3 shots.... but to be honest, I'm not good about giving myself the shot.  If it wasn't subcutaneous I think I would medicate more often for pain.  I live with very consistent cycles most days (4a, 9:30a, 11:30a, 2p, and again 7p).  If it weren't for my sleeping pill I'd probably feel more at night too.  At times I have spurts where it will be a constant headache of varying pain ALL DAY - that's the one I think people call the Beast.  It's a 10 and even the shots don't "kill" it.

I read on here that Melatonin can help...  I'm going to try that tonight instead of my Ambien 12.5 mg.  I often halve that dosage anyway because I'm a petite woman and don't need that much I guess.

I've had MRI with and without contrast, CT scans, and MRA.  All show lesions, but they've ruled out lots by doing it.  I had a history of Sarcoidosis of the lungs and eyes as a child, but that doesn't appear active at this time - including in my brain.  So doc said this is just evidence of the frequency and seriousness of my headaches of late.  When this news scared me she just said not to worry about dementia down the road.  Should I really not ask more about these?  Is this true this is typical and I shouldn't worry?

Now I'm set to see the neuro again 3/22 and I told her I need something either in addition to the Alsuma, or other than, as an alternative... I'm muddling through CH pain some days longer than I should just to avoid the shots.

She mentioned a nerve block, but I'm nervous about that - she said she'd tell me more when I get there.  I was really hoping for O2 instead... Should I be afraid??  Other things I should ask or say at this appointment?  I'm afraid I'm going from episodic to chronic.  Is it too soon to tell?

I know this was really long.  I'll try to keep future posts shorter.  Thanks for reading this and just being there.  This has been a really awful 10 wks, and just finding this site feels like a glimmer of light.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
9thNerve
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 33
Re: New and need advice
Reply #1 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 7:03pm
 
Hello! I am new to this CH thing also.
After 8 mos of trying every imaginable medicine (tegretol,indocin,topomax,tizinidine,IV infusions of valporic acid,tordal,dhe,mag sulfate,etc etc) and with nothing taking away the pain and only briefly breaking the cycle,  I told my neurologist i needed off all the meds and to get a baseline and start over again. The underlying constant HA of 6-7 has gone away. I still get the HA's every 2 weeks and they take me out for 3-5 days.  I  began  my own research and came up with : for sleep (because Ambien 15mg was giving me only 2.5hours sleep a night!) Mellodyn or NightRest. I also have added Butterbur and feverfew. Begin with the initial higher dose of 150mg qd. Then after a month, 50mg BID with the feverfew 75mg QD. O2 helps.Indocin 100mg with compazine 25mg and imitrex, all at the same time has knocked a 9-10+ HA down to a 4 in an hour. I also take a super B complex vit, B12 2500mcg,B2 400mg,Vit D 2000iu,Magnesium 400mg,Folic Acid 1000mg. The mellodyn has melatonin which is also suggested to help longterm with CH. Oh, and I get BOTOX in the migraine pattern q3months. Hope this helps!
Back to top
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2012 at 7:06pm by 9thNerve »  
 
IP Logged
 
Bob Johnson
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


"Only the educated are
free." -Epictetus


Posts: 5965
Kennett Square, PA (USA)
Gender: male
Re: New and need advice
Reply #2 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 7:21pm
 
For other readers: Alsulma is sumitriptan in a new brand of autoinjector--not a generic suma.

Expect (hope!) your doc is working you up to a higher Verap. dose. This is a comonly used procotol for its use. Suggest you print it and use to talk with the doc about dosing.
====
Headache. 2004 Nov;44(10):1013-8.   


Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients.

Blau JN, Engel HO.


    Background.-Verapamil is currently the best available prophylactic drug for patients experiencing cluster headaches (CHs). Published papers usually state 240 to 480 mg taken in three divided doses give good results, ranging from 50% to 80%; others mention higher doses-720, even 1200 mg per day. In clinical practice we found we needed to adapt dosage to individual's time of attacks, in particular giving higher doses before going to bed to suppress severe nocturnal episodes. A few only required 120 mg daily. We therefore evolved a scheme for steady and progressive drug increase until satisfactory control had been achieved. Objective.-To find the minimum dose of verapamil required to prevent episodic and chronic cluster headaches by supervising each individual and adjusting the dosage accordingly. Methods.-Consecutive patients with episodic or chronic CH (satisfying International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) were started on verapamil 40 mg in the morning, 80 mg early afternoon, and 80 mg before going to bed. Patients kept a diary of all attacks, recording times of onset, duration, and severity. They were advised, verbally and in writing, to add 40 mg verapamil on alternate days, depending on their attack timing: with nocturnal episodes the first increase was the evening dose and next the afternoon one; when attacks occurred on or soon after waking, we advised setting an alarm clock 2 hours before the usual waking time and then taking the medication. Patients were followed-up at weekly intervals until attacks were controlled. They were also reviewed when a cluster period had ended, and advised to continue on the same dose for a further 2 weeks before starting systematic reduction. Chronic cluster patients were reviewed as often as necessary. Results.-Seventy consecutive patients, 52 with episodic CH during cluster periods and 18 with chronic CH, were all treated with verapamil as above. Complete relief from headaches was obtained in 49 (94%) of 52 with episodic, and 10 (55%) of 18 with chronic CH; the majority needed 200 to 480 mg, but 9 in the episodic, and 3 in the chronic group, needed 520 to 960 mg for control. Ten, 2 in the episodic and 8 in the chronic group, with incomplete relief, required additional therapy-lithium, sumatriptan, or sodium valproate. One patient withdrew because verapamil made her too tired, another developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and the drug was withdrawn. Conclusions.-Providing the dosage for each individual is adequate, preventing CH with verapamil is highly effective, taken three (occasionally with higher doses, four) times a day. In the majority (94%) with episodic CH steady dose increase under supervision, totally suppressed attacks. However in the chronic variety only 55% were completely relieved, 69% men, but only 20% women. In both groups, for those with partial attack suppression, additional prophylactic drugs or acute treatment was necessary. (Headache 2004;44:1013-1018).

=======================================
SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL

Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. “This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil,” Dr. Sheftell noted.

“I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache,” he said. “I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.”

Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. “There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience,” Dr. Sheftell commented.
=========
Print out the PDF file, below and use as a discussion tool  re. treatments. Your doc will recognize the source. For you it's one way to starting learning how Cluster is treated.
===
Read this entire article and then start on the buttons, left, starting with the OUCH site. Living with Cluster means learning how to treat/live with a condition which cannot be cured bur, for which, good controls are available.
==



Cluster headache.
From: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register (Orphanet Journal of Rare Diseases)
[Easy to read; one of the better overview articles I've seen. Suggest printing the full length article--link, line above--if you are serious about keeping a good medical library on the subject.]

Leroux E, Ducros A.

ABSTRACT: Cluster headache (CH) is a primary headache disease characterized by recurrent short-lasting attacks (15 to 180 minutes) of excruciating unilateral periorbital pain accompanied by ipsilateral autonomic signs (lacrimation, nasal congestion, ptosis, miosis, lid edema, redness of the eye). It affects young adults, predominantly males. Prevalence is estimated at 0.5-1.0/1,000. CH has a circannual and circadian periodicity, attacks being clustered (hence the name) in bouts that can occur during specific months of the year. ALCOHOL IS THE ONLY DIETARY TRIGGER OF CH, STRONG ODORS (MAINLY SOLVENTS AND CIGARETTE SMOKE) AND NAPPING MAY ALSO TRIGGER CH ATTACKS. During bouts, attacks may happen at precise hours, especially during the night. During the attacks, patients tend to be restless. CH may be episodic or chronic, depending on the presence of remission periods. CH IS ASSOCIATED WITH TRIGEMINOVASCULAR ACTIVATION AND NEUROENDOCRINE AND VEGETATIVE DISTURBANCES, HOWEVER, THE PRECISE CAUSATIVE MECHANISMS REMAIN UNKNOWN. Involvement of the hypothalamus (a structure regulating endocrine function and sleep-wake rhythms) has been confirmed, explaining, at least in part, the cyclic aspects of CH. The disease is familial in about 10% of cases. Genetic factors play a role in CH susceptibility, and a causative role has been suggested for the hypocretin receptor gene. Diagnosis is clinical. Differential diagnoses include other primary headache diseases such as migraine, paroxysmal hemicrania and SUNCT syndrome. At present, there is no curative treatment. There are efficient treatments to shorten the painful attacks (acute treatments) and to reduce the number of daily attacks (prophylactic treatments). Acute treatment is based on subcutaneous administration of sumatriptan and high-flow oxygen. Verapamil, lithium, methysergide, prednisone, greater occipital nerve blocks and topiramate may be used for prophylaxis. In refractory cases, deep-brain stimulation of the hypothalamus and greater occipital nerve stimulators have been tried in experimental settings.THE DISEASE COURSE OVER A LIFETIME IS UNPREDICTABLE. Some patients have only one period of attacks, while in others the disease evolves from episodic to chronic form.

PMID: 18651939 [PubMed]
======
Read the posts here. You'll find your experiences discussed, learning how others cope, and focus your thinking about what specific questions you want to ask us.
Back to top
  
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register (96 KB | 16 )

Bob Johnson
 
IP Logged
 
2012Clusters
CH.com Newbie
*
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 3
NJ
Gender: female
Re: New and need advice
Reply #3 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 11:53am
 
I appreciate the information you both provided!  I had a terrible night... I tried just the Melatonin, without my Ambien, and I was up all night trying to convince myself to fall asleep through the pain.  By 3a I gave up trying and eventually took my Alsuma and slept.  I will definitely follow up with my MD to find out about the things suggested.

I don't know if anyone else struggles with pain management choices, but for some reason I do.  Sometimes I "muddle through" SOMEHOW, miserably, rather than take the shot(s) at onset as directed.  I know it sounds crazy considering we all know how bad this hurts.  Other than being miserable, am I encouraging this cycle to last longer by sometimes delayinig my Alsuma/Imitrex??
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Bob Johnson
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


"Only the educated are
free." -Epictetus


Posts: 5965
Kennett Square, PA (USA)
Gender: male
Re: New and need advice
Reply #4 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 3:34pm
 
There is no virtual--but much needless pain--in not using the Imitrex at the first sign of an anttack. All abortives work fastest and best when taken as soon as you recognize an attack is developing.

If you are trying to save money, consider that poor response, when you do finally inject, is producing less value for the price.
Back to top
  

Bob Johnson
 
IP Logged
 
Skyhawk5
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


Posts: 1320
Ypsilanti, Mi. USA
Gender: male
Re: New and need advice
Reply #5 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 1:44am
 
I've had two nerve blocks. 1st time I got 16 hrs PF, 2nd time 12 hrs. Some folks get days and months.

With the O2, you may have to educate your Doctor. Most are not very familiar with how O2 is Rx'd and used for CH. Below is our "oxygen info" page. Good reading for CH folks.
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Don
Back to top
  

Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the Beast , I  have O2 so I fear him not.
Skyhawk5655  
IP Logged
 
Skyhawk5
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


Posts: 1320
Ypsilanti, Mi. USA
Gender: male
Re: New and need advice
Reply #6 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 2:10am
 
The following should help convince your Doctor that treating CH with O2 is safe and effective. The info is from the Michigan Headpain & Nuerological Institute by, Dr. Todd Rozen, well know Headache research & treatment, Neurologist.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
Back to top
  

Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the Beast , I  have O2 so I fear him not.
Skyhawk5655  
IP Logged
 
kika
CH.com Veteran
***
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 122
Re: New and need advice
Reply #7 - May 3rd, 2012 at 9:41pm
 
Hi

Sorry that you need to be here. I have had CH for 12 years now and tried an occiptial nerve block for the first time last year. All it did was make the skin in that area numb for about 5 weeks, but it did nothing to prevent the attacks for me.

Do you have O2? Have you tried prednisone? Those have been the most successful traditional therapies for me.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Skyhawk5
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


Posts: 1320
Ypsilanti, Mi. USA
Gender: male
Re: New and need advice
Reply #8 - May 4th, 2012 at 1:44am
 
When the pain gets bad enough you'll do anything and everything to stop it.

Most Doctors know very little about CH, it is in your best interest to know more than them. There is more CH info on this site than most Dr's know.

Don
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 4th, 2012 at 1:45am by Skyhawk5 »  

Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the Beast , I  have O2 so I fear him not.
Skyhawk5655  
IP Logged
 
wimsey1
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 2457
MA
Gender: male
Re: New and need advice
Reply #9 - May 4th, 2012 at 8:14am
 
9thNerve wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 7:03pm:
The underlying constant HA of 6-7 has gone away. I still get the HA's every 2 weeks and they take me out for 3-5 days.


You've gone through quite a lot of the usual meds, but by no means all. And three of the most effective interventions aren't on your list: high levels of verapamil, high flow O2 and lithium, alone or in combination. There are others as well, but effective for a smaller population. And without the dosages of what you did take, we have no way of knowing if you were in the ballpark for their use. From the description of your OTC regimen, I think you'd like Batch's "123 days pain free..." thread. You could tweak up a bit on some of what you're already taking, and others have found it very effective. Hope this helps. blessings. lance
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print

DISCLAIMER: All information contained on this web site is for informational purposes only.  It is in no way intended to be used as a replacement for professional medical treatment.   clusterheadaches.com makes no claims as to the scientific/clinical validity of the information on this site OR to that of the information linked to from this site.  All information taken from the internet should be discussed with a medical professional!