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Sharkbay

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Im thinking out load so if you can add
Jan 9^th, 2012 at 9:27pm

(Im thinking out load so if any one can add that would be great)

I think that hormones have some thing to do with CH. Im not sure but Iv read that hormones have some thing to do with metabolic waste when you get a build of this wast you get a knot in your muscle, this is where trigger points and satellite trigger points and refereed pain come into CH Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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This has worked on me in the past working the neck and upper back muscles.It works better if you are drinking your right amount of water that you should be.

Dehydration Almost all the people you see and meet on a daily basis are dehydrated.So in say that these people will also have a build up of toxins and there hormones want be working as they should. Please do some research on dehydration here is one web page Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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Hormones effect the adrenal glands work interactively with the hypothalamus and pituitary gland, as well as secrete hormones that affect metabolism, blood chemicals, and certain body characteristics. (Hormones adrenal glades fight or flight RLS if you have it) The big muscles in the top of your leg have a direct link with the adrenal glands fight or flight this is why drinking caffeine can have a big effect on the adrenal glands. The adrenal cortex a part of the adrenal gland produces cortisol, estrogen,Progesterone and testosterone.

(Progesterone maybe in part the thing we are all lacking the other parts are most likely dehydration and toxic build up.

Have a looked at body burden this may explain why kids get CH along with dehydration. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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Maybe when someone smarter then me add all these things up it will make some sent to them.

ALL THE BEST

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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add Reply #1 - Jan 10^th, 2012 at 7:56am abnormal hypothalamus
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Sharkbay CH.com Junior Offline Do as to others as you would want done to you and Posts: 28 Gender:	Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add Reply #2 - Jan 10^th, 2012 at 8:13am Hi Bob MANY THANKS for your input, Im thinking abnormal adrenal glands first a long with metabolic wast and dehydration the hypothalamus thing is only the end result of the above and toxic build up. Thats what Im thinking, ALL THE BEST
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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add Reply #3 - Jan 10^th, 2012 at 11:54am That's quite a theory.
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Guiseppi CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011 Posts: 12063 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA Gender:	Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add Reply #4 - Jan 10^th, 2012 at 3:38pm I'm with you sharkbay. Eventually, someone smarter then me will put a lot of these tiny details together and say, "of course you idiots, it was right in front of us all this time!" Joe
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Mike NZ

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Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add
Reply #5 - Jan 11^th, 2012 at 2:45am

My pet theory is that we're being confused by thinking there is just a single cause for CH. I suspect that there are several metabolic triggers that result in the hypothalamus being triggered to result in a CH.

There is certainly a genetic link with studies showing that if a parent has CH then it's more likely that the child will get CH, but only by a small percentage. This implies that the genetic link (or links) result in someone being more likely to get CH.

It could be that the hypothalamus can be slightly malformed, probably during foetal development, which could either result in CH or it increases the chance of someone getting CH.

Head injuries seem to be linked to CH, so this could either be that the hypothalamus is damaged or that the damage changes something else that results in the person getting CH.

There seem to be several connections to sex hormones based on the links see with testosterone deficiency for males and the impact of pregnancy for females. However this doesn't affect everyone.

There are no doubt multiple other factors that can or may influence things.

So instead of just one cause, there are multiple causes, all of which result in the hypothalamus doing something that gives the CH symptoms.

It's possible that some people only have one of these causes active (episodic)? Whilst others have multiple causes (chronic?).

What would be beneficial to identifying CH causes would be detailed MRI scans taken of a large population of people with CH both before and after they get CH. The "after" scans are easy to get, the problem is that since only about one person in a thousand gets CH and MRI scans are not cheap, to get the "before" scans you'll need to do MRI scans on 1000 people per "before" scan you get on average.

And it would be very useful to get access to brain tissue of people with CH, but first they need to be dead and the body would have to be available very quickly to people doing the CH research.

All of this makes it non-trivial to identify cause(s) and the exact mechanism.

It's a bit like trying to show a link between head injury and CH. We can not give healthy people head injuries to see if they develop CH as no ethics board would ever approve this. So we can only look at people with CH and ask about head injuries. However we don't know if they would have got CH without the head injury.

Now if I had the appropriate funding, a research facility and I'd taken a different subject at university I'd love to work on this problem...

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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add Reply #6 - Jan 11^th, 2012 at 7:07am Quote: But using a new scanning technique, doctors have established that cluster headaches are likely to be caused by excessive growth of grey cells in one part of the brain. Same part of the hypo activated during CH.
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Sharkbay

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Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add
Reply #7 - Jan 11^th, 2012 at 8:51am

Hi Guy MANY THANKS for your info. This study of excessive growth of grey cells I hope that the person or persons that they tested have't been on lithium this is one study that I found eight of ten individuals who took lithium showed an increase in brain grey matter?? who know smart people make some very dumb mistake at times. This is just one thing wrong with testing CH people that have been on meds you can't tell if its the meds or not that have done the damage. How many times do you think they would test someone new with CH before they have been on meds I would say not one I could be wrong but I don't think so.

I see I stuffed up the links at the top so here they are again Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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Trigger point therapy has stopped my CH cycle 3 sessions with a therapist cycle stopped.

Maybe we should all write out list and of what damage we have before CH then maybe something will add up that we all have.

TAKE CARE & MANY THANKS

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Callico

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Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add
Reply #8 - Jan 11^th, 2012 at 6:48pm

Mike,

To add to all the conundra you posed, please also explain why for some of us a treatment will work for a period of time and then quit. Why for some of us a continuing series of treatments will work for a period of time and then quit? In the last 30 plus years I've tried a large array of treatments. None of them has been effective for extended periods of time. They work really well for a while and I get my hopes up just in time for them to become totally ineffective. The longest lasting one was Kudzu, which worked well for me for a couple of years, then nada. Yet, some of the drugs I tried several years ago that either didn't work or quit working still are leaving their side effects evident. Some of the side effects wouldn't be so bad (some!) but it sure would be nice if they quit when the meds quit working too.

Sorry for feeling sorry for myself. I know what the final release will be. I'm not going to hurry it, but some days I would welcome it.

Jerry

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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add Reply #9 - Jan 11^th, 2012 at 7:42pm The ecessive growth of grey cells are located on the back of the hypothalamus on the same side as CH is exerienced.
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Sharkbay

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Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add
Reply #10 - Jan 11^th, 2012 at 10:50pm

Hi Mike as Im thinking out load and I might be right or I maybe wrong. But to me it sounds like a build up of toxins. That is why as soon as you finish a meds detox as much as you can then (maybe) the meds will work longer, This maybe why the longer you are on meds you go to the next leave of CH. (maybe) Also drink more water with your meds.

In my 13 years with out meds mine have been about the same every year that is until my last cycle in Nov 2011 I never had it like this before no sleep in the first week attack after attack this can only be in my mind something to do with the big volcano in South America or the nuclear melt down in Japan ( maybe )

We were made to drink WATER not Coca-Cola alcohol or lots of caffein. I was never a big drinker of alcohol or water but coke was my mate ( did you know for 1 can of coke you would need to drink 8 Lts of water to get it out of you) that is just 1 can I used to drink 30-40 cans a week and lots of coffee too all this would have add up too one very very dehydrated boy. I now drink filleted water about 3Lt a day and 500ml of lemon juice & honey with a dash of salt. By doing this Im giving my liver and hormones a good chance of working as they should. Lemon juice helps get the toxins out of your liver. Iv also cut out 99% of fatty foods and as many preservatives as I can.I eating lots of good heathy food now cocked by myself not Macs or any other fast foods place. I have no caffein at all now so my adrenalin glands with have to find a kick from my foods not caffein.

Water I know what some of you are thinking I could never drink that much water I used to think the same thing it taste
yuk, Here is how you do it you MUST have breakfast then SIP water all day long and yes you will go to the toilet more in the first 3-4 weeks but when you body get used to it you don't go as often. By drinking more filleted water your body will love you for it in so so many ways from thinking better to not as much pain eg back pain.

You say of all the meds they only work for awhile how come then do some people still tell new CH suffers to give them ago knowing they want work for long. I would never do this to someone knowing that info and the side-affects. (Im thinking they are only trying to help but are they in the long run.)

This is what I would tell new CH suffers to do start drinking more filleted water first detox and to start eating heathy foods then after a week or 2 doing this find someone that does (trigger point therapy) If you are dehydrated in any way it will not work as good (this goes for any therapy) The other thing they could do is using a hot pack on the muscle from the back of the neck to the back muscles of the top of the shoulders. Put your hand over your shoulder and push till you find a very tender spot it will fell like a lump this is where the heat needs to go. Iv seen a lot on cupping lately this looks good to me altho Iv never had it done Im thinking it would do the same thing.

Im going to keep doing what Im doing eating heathy and drinking my water and see what happens this time next year.Finger crossed this will work for me if not then I still have castor oil that helped me this time stop my cycle. I only hope it works as fast as it did in my last cycle. If someone is thinking about using castor oil do your research first and chat to your DR as Im not sure how it goes with meds.( I never drank it I just put it on my skin )

This brings me to an other thing Iv seen people trying natural things and as soon as they mention it has worked on them people start knocking them this has happened to me with castor oil. This has to stop as one day someone will find something and not tell others why would they know what other will say.

In one way I think we are the lucky ones as our body is telling us to clean our acted up before its to later.( maybe )

I hope what Iv said make some sent to someone even if it only helps 1 person I'll be happy.

(I say this again I might be right or I maybe wrong)

TAKE CARE ALL & MANY THANKS Les

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Mike NZ

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Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add
Reply #11 - Jan 12^th, 2012 at 2:41pm

Callico wrote on Jan 11^th, 2012 at 6:48pm:

Mike,

To add to all the conundra you posed, please also explain why for some of us a treatment will work for a period of time and then quit. Why for some of us a continuing series of treatments will work for a period of time and then quit?

I wish I knew.

Based on my musings, if there are multiple causes of CH, a treatment might work well for some of the causes, but then if another of these causes becomes active (still resulting in a CH), then what was previously working will now no longer work.

To get real answers to questions like this needs a combination of multiple people doing research, plenty of funding, lots of people with CH as test subjects and time too.

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Sharkbay

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Re: Im thinking out load so if you can add
Reply #12 - Jan 13^th, 2012 at 4:32am

I think if they looked at Kids with CH with out any meds in them they would have a better chance at finding why we get CH, I mean how many things could it be Toxins, brachial plexus injury, muscle pain from growing, hormones these are some that I can think of. Im also thinking all of them. I know I have them but my muscle pain isn't from growing and Im not sure about my hormones.

ALL THE BEST Les

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