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What to do with Shadows (Read 2712 times)
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What to do with Shadows
Jan 4th, 2012 at 3:57pm
 
I have only recently been diagnosed with cluster headaches, and last night was the worst pain of my life.  I'm scared.

I have a very busy life and am very busy at work.  Despite very little sleep last night, I'm at work and managed ok for most of the day.  For the last 1-2 hours, I have been experiencing what I now know are referred to as "shadows" and am scared that it could come back any time.  At the very least, I am drained, having dull pain, and having difficulty concentrating. 

My questions:  Should I use an abortive for shadows?  Will it help me?  Is there any downside to taking an abortive now?  Does anyone feel that each time they take an abortive, the next one is that much stronger?

To whomever responds, thank you so much for your time.
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #1 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 4:05pm
 
If you have an energy drink you might be able to get rid of your shadow by drinking it as fast as you can.  I can sometimes keep a hit from progressing if I drink one as soon as I feel it.  Others find that getting to your oxygen will stop a shadow and some find that Excedrine Migraine helps.  We're all just different. 

There are many opinions about whether using an abortive will cause the next hit to be stronger.  Personally, I feel like triptans do just that.   I try to avoid them when possible, and rely on my O2 and energy drinks as much as possible.

Jeannie
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #2 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 4:08pm
 
Jeannie, thank you so much.  I do have an energy drink and am going to try just what you said.

I do not yet have O2 and will talk with my neurologist about it next Wednesday.  I have an MRI scheduled for Saturday. 

This is some really scary stuff to me right now.  I've had a copule of severe injuries in my life, and nothing compared to what woke me up at 3 a.m. last night.
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #3 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 4:15pm
 
I hope the energy drink helps. Be careful with using them if you are taking Verapamil as a prevent.  It can affect your heart.  I think the rule is no more than 2 energy drinks per day if you are taking it.

Really push for the 02 script.  You are right, CH is really scary.  Having access to oxygen, at a high flow rate and the proper mask takes a lot of that scariness away.  Most people find that, if used correctly, o2 will abort an attack in around 5 minutes. 

Jeannie
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #4 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 4:20pm
 
I am taking Verapamil, so thank you for that information.

I just downed a red bull, and I don't know if the effects are supposed to be immediate.  My personal experience right now is that I have a jolt of energy (don't know how long that will last), which may at least help get me through my work day.  However, the dull pain remains.

If O2 can stop it in 5 minutes, that is a no-brainer.  It lasted about an hour last night after taking a triptan.

I am also now on my 7th day of Prednisone (20 mg 3 times a day for 5 days and now second day of 20 mg 2 times a day).  Shouldn't I be seeing relief already?
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #5 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 4:28pm
 
Naproxen (Aleve) works well for mine
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #6 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 4:31pm
 
It might take a bit to see results from the Red Bull.  And, sad to say, it may not work for you. 

I would imagine that if the Pred taper was going to work, you'd be seeing results by now.  In my experience, the Pred would work for the first few days and lose its effectiveness as soon as I began to taper down.  The only time I saw a real benefit from a steroid was when I was prescribed Decadron.  It had some pretty bad side effects and I wouldn't care to try it again.   I'm not saying I never will though.  CH can drive one to do things we don't care to do.
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #7 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 4:37pm
 
I have tried Naproxen, and unfortunately that does not help me.

Yesterday was my first day of tapering down on the Prednisone and last night was the first severe CH since I started taking it.  I thought it was coincidence because it was only one less pill and it was the first day of tapering down. 

I've actually never heard of Decadron, but I have some not so pleasant side effects from the Prednisone as it is.

Can O2 be purchased without a script?  Maybe I can pick it up somewhere in case I'm SOL with the Prednisone.  I would do nearly anything to prevent another night like last night.

Also, what strength do people use with Verapamil?  I'm on my 7th day of one pill of 120 mg.  Seems small from what I've read.  I know I need to give it time to work, but I'm curious what dosage seems to work best for people.
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #8 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 4:45pm
 
I have been on as much as 720 mg  Verap a day.

You can use welder's o2.  It is the same as the medical grade. 

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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #9 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 5:08pm
 
Thank you.  It makes me feel a little more in control to hear everyone's stories and that there are options out there.  I also appreciate your patience because I know I am only beginning to learn about this, and I was merely desperate for some immediate help from anyone willing.

It is a pretty helpless feeling when that pain overcomes you.  I think it's even worse to have a loved one witness it.  If it wasn't for this shadow, last night would just seem like a horrible, horrible dream.  Like it was so torturous, it could not possibly have been real.
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #10 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 5:41pm
 
er,
I know what you may be going through at work, etc.  My advice is do get your MRI to rule out anything else that may be possibly wrong in your head.  Personally, I would not wait on the neuro to prescribe o2 as this may be too long of a delay for appt, time for insurance to hopefully approve, o2 provider to deliver, etc.  Chances are you will not get o2 approved without a battle and chances are if you do get it approved, the flow rate and mask will not be what you need.

Sad but true, you will need to be your own advocate for proper CH treatment. Neuros are ignorant and insurance co's don't recognize effective treatment.

Knowledge is power and this website is the best resource in the world about CH's.  Most of us have had to educate our neurologists and battle with insurance co's for prescription approvals.

There are several relevant threads of many posts you should consider reading based on your inquiries.

One thread regarding your inquiry of Verapamil that will be helpful is titled "Verapamil Dosage"...lengthy but offers neurological literature to print and take to your neurologist to get on a therapeutic dosage if that is what you and your neuro believe is best for you.  This thread offers personal experiences with trial/error of dosages and stories of battles with neuros to approve high dosages, etc.  This thread is listed under the "Medications/Treatments" board.

"Oxygen info"-yellow tab, left side of your screen.  Plenty of info here about how to effectively obtain medical o2 prescriptions, how to obtain welders o2 same day, flow rates, regulator types, connection sizes, non-rebreather masks, tank sizes for home, tank sizes for work and tank sizes for your car, how to hyperventilate properly, etc.

Welders o2 will most likely be your fastest way to get o2, a regulator from Harbor Freight or the welders supply store, a NRB (non-rebreather mask from the ch.com store-yellow tab/left side of your screen.

Lastly, FMLA may/not be applicable to you and your workplace; you may want to check into this should you not be able to work.  See the thread titled "Missing work" found under the board "Cluster Specific."  Also, there is a very well written "letter to employer" under the "Getting to know you" board for you to print should you feel the need.

Lots to read here on this website, and we do understand, so please don't hesitate to vent when you need, ask questions, etc, you are not alone and we are your best support team here to help each other. Wink

-Gregg in Las Vegas
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #11 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 7:08pm
 
I started with 120mg of Verap for 3 days, then 240mg for a week, then 360mg.  It was not until I had 3 or 4 days of the 360mg level that I really felt it start to work.  I have not had a serious attack since hitting the 360mg level, and in fact am now tapering down to 240mg and then to 120mg if all goes well.  As to shadows, I found them to be a regular part of the cycle (this is my first), but a decent price to pay to be rid of the severe attacks.  As they say, YMMV (your mileage may vary) but I for one swear by Verapamil.  FYI, I was also on 240mg of Indomethacin for most of the cycle along with the Verap.  Good luck to you!
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #12 - Jan 5th, 2012 at 7:34am
 
My first line abortives for sudden full-on hits, as well as lingering shadows (althogh I try not to let them linger too long) is a large can of Monster and O2. It does work for me. Whether or not abortives of any kind generate more frequent or more intense hits is, as stated above, a matter of personal experience. In my experience, the sooner and more effectively I abort either shadows or hits consistently, the less frequent they are and with lower intensity.

You mentioned the 'triptan took an hour to work. I am guessing that's a pill form. Pills are nearly useless for us. They take too long. Look into autoinjectables or nasal sprays. They are much faster. I use Imitrex with the Imitrex tip as posted on the left side of this page. I also use Migranal (not within 24 hours of having trexed). The combo seems to help me keep them at bay longer. And I have two powerful abortives/month available to me through insurance.

As to the verapamil, I didn't get relief until 480mg/day; that too became less effective. Now I am on 640mg/day. As a chronic for over 5 years (episodic for almost 25) I can say I am in a better space and armed with pretty effective interventions. Good luck, and God bless. lance
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« Last Edit: Jan 5th, 2012 at 7:34am by wimsey1 »  
 
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #13 - Jan 5th, 2012 at 9:36am
 
Incredible support and information.  Thank you all.

I am happy to report a CH-free night sleep!  I know I cannot count my chickens when it comes to these, and I haven't had more than two days without one in about 7 weeks, but I actually feel good right now!

I think my problem stems from the fact that I have had periodic episodal migraines for 10 years.  I now believe that druing that time period, at least some of those incidents were CH that were not not properly diagnosed, but I certainly suffered from migraines as well.  So, I treated my CH like they were migraines for a while.  I usually take Axert for migraines.  Like many of you have said, pills are worthless for CH because of how long they take to work.

I hope I have a good neuro for this bc he is a migraine sufferer and was always aggressive in treating migraines and did not shy away from anything treatment-wise.  But, it took way too long to diagnose my current condition as CH, and was only diagnosed after I described how my left eye would sometimes turn bright red and even swell completely shut, my eye would tear, and my nose would run.  I hope that after my MRI and follow-up appointment, he can provide me with a faster-acting abortive - be it CO2 or some kind of nasal spray. 

I have also used Fioricet for migraines in the past.  Has anyone had any success with that for CH?  I have had some success with it in this current bout of CH in that it seems to kick in after about 30-40 minutes rather than the usual 40-60 minutes for the Axert.  I had Fioricet by my bed last night in case I woke up with CH and was ready to try chewing them for the first time ever rather than experience another horrible episode.

I do not worry so much about my neuro, but do worry about my insurance company.  They seem to try to deny everything the first time around!

As to work and FMLA issues, I thank you very much for the information and can tell you that I desperately hope it never comes to that.  I am extremely stubborn and have literally popped Percocet after Percocet after Percocet to get through a day with CH at work thinking it was just a really bad migraine.  Pain pills do not tend to give me that "high" feeling, and I'm able to get work done.  That is no way to live, however, and I haven't taken narcotic pain pills since I was finally diagnosed with CH rather than migraine.  I also personally felt that with the Percocet, the next CH was worse than the previous one.  But, as I am sure you all understand, when the pain is at its worst, we will do anything to get rid of it in that instant and damn the future.
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #14 - Jan 5th, 2012 at 12:18pm
 
er,
Good to read you had a PF night and some sleep. Wink

No exp w/ Fioricet, but it is addictive and should stay away from it especially considering it is not wise to take for CH's as it will lead to addiction, dependence, etc. nor will it abort the attack effectively.

When I read the word Percocet, my mouth watered, I have a very strong love/hate relationship with this "candy."  Needless to write, STAY AWAY!!!

Do read up on (1) transitional, (2) preventive and (3) abortive treatments ASAP so that you can educate your doctor when you see him/her ASAP. 

Ask questions here for clarification.
Good Luck! Wink
-Gregg in Las Vegas
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« Last Edit: Jan 5th, 2012 at 12:19pm by LasVegas »  

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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #15 - Jan 5th, 2012 at 1:41pm
 
Gregg,

What you say about Fioricet and Percocet I completely agree with.  The only "positive" I've had from these medications is in getting through a work day.  Since I have only used the abortives Axert, Fioricet and Percocet for CH so far (just diagnosed last week after 10 years of a migraine-only diagnosis), I can only comment on those.  I would LOVE something as safe and natural and apparently way more effective as O2.  However, since I have a very high tolerance for pain meds, I do not get the high or loopy feeling and have been able to work effectively on these meds.  The CH either goes away as a result of the med or on its own because it took so long for the med to kick in, but I feel more confident that in taking those medications at the beginning or middle of a 10-12 hour working day that I'll get through the rest of the day without CH returning.  This has been effective either by chance or in reality thus far.   However, more than 50% of the time I use that route, I have an out of a deep sleep 2-4 a.m. BEAST wake-up call, which are by far the worst for me (all left-sided severe eye, sinus, teeth, and head pain with red and swollen eye, tears, sometimes full on crying, rocking, nasal dripping, shaking, restlessness, extreme fear, an honest-to-God wish at that moment for death, embarrassment in front of my fiance . . . you get the picture).

It is a pride issue with me at work.  I take a med and shut the door to my office for 30-60 minutes if necessary and then I can stay late if I have to.  It takes debilitating pain for well over an hour before I consider leaving and even then I do not feel confident driving and have to try to gain enough coherence in thought to find a way home. 

I am also in a profession where a lot rides on appearances, and I am being very honest right now, I fear what people would say or think if I had an oxygen tank in the office.  My career depends largely on my ability to promote a strong and confident demeanor.  This is a real issue to me at this stage for which I would love to hear others' feedback.

Let me be clear, I think the Fioricet/Percocet route is NOT a smart thing to do especially with less abrasive and addictive medications out there.  To have learned that something as natural as oxygen could be 1,000,000 times more effective is such an eye-opener!  I plan to change my course of action (to at least a nasal spray) at my next appointment (6 days away) or earlier if my neuro can get me in.  I also saw from the OUCH Website that there are 3 neuros in my area listed.  If I am dissatisfied with my next neuro appointment, I will switch ASAP.
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #16 - Jan 5th, 2012 at 1:56pm
 
er,
Been there, done that! and completely relate in everything you wrote...the pain pills, i've popped more at 1x than most people take in a month.

The appearance issue at work, I relate there as I am a professional salesman corporate type guy.

Imitrex nasal sprays and Imitrex injections will help you through the work day if you can get your hands on enough quantity.

Redbulls, energy drinks containing 1,000 mg of Taurine with Caffeine; slam it fast at onset of attack.

A preventive med such as Verapamil will be your trial/error to reduce intensity of attacks and frequency of attacks.  This is well needed and would recommend you get into a neuro or some doc able to prescribe ASAP, not in 7 days.

While the preventive med is titrating into your bloodstream (about 2 weeks) you will want to get a transitional med such as Prednisone.  Start high, taper low, get enough to cover you more on the higher side for at least a week before you taper.

I'm not a dr, just a fellow sufferer with plenty of knowledge and unfortunate experience.  Just keep in mind, what works for me, may not work for you.  What works for you this cycle, may not work next cycle.  The DRAGON morphs every day and every cycle.  you must be a self advicate and take control or you will be in miserable agony.

The anti-inflammatory regimen is natural, healthy, inexpensive and has helped many with their cycles.  Might consider trying this also, but not to be looked upon as a cure without need to get yourself a transitional and preventive treatment ASAP.

Do get yourself a non-rebreather mask, a high flow regulator and tank filled with o2 for home to abort night time attacks.  Welders o2 does not require a script and you can pick up a tank (lease or purchase) TODAY and can order the NRB mask online here on this site (delivered tomorrow) and the regulator from Harbor Freight, Flotec or your welders supply store (today or tomorrow).

PM me if you need phone #'s contact info for regulator source.

Ask questions for clarification and please remember you are NOT alone! 

We understand your frustrations and pain and are here for your support! Wink

-Gregg in Las Vegas
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #17 - Jan 5th, 2012 at 2:13pm
 
Making a checklist of what you said both for me and others if it is easier to read and useful to anyone else:

1. Imitrex nasal spray and injection (will ask for at next neuro apt)

2. Red Bull (got it handy now in the office at all times, had mild relief using it yeseterday for first time for a shadow)

3. Verapamil (on it now for 8 days, but at low dosage, will follow-up with neuro)

4. Prednisone (on it now for 8 days, mixed and somewhat disappointing results)

5. O2 (debating what you said.  I know you're right, but I fear the cost and time involved (not a good time) and might just get a script from my neuro.  I'm also hoping my current regimen of Verapamil/Predisone is working.  Also have an MRI in 2 days, which my neuro wants to see before next apt)

This site and all of you are amazing.  It's fascinating and difficult to comprehend why it is somehow easier to know there are others out there going through the same thing.  It doens't take the pain away, but it's comforting.  All the best to all of you.
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Re: What to do with Shadows
Reply #18 - Jan 5th, 2012 at 3:07pm
 
er wrote on Jan 5th, 2012 at 1:41pm:
I am also in a profession where a lot rides on appearances, and I am being very honest right now, I fear what people would say or think if I had an oxygen tank in the office.  My career depends largely on my ability to promote a strong and confident demeanor.  This is a real issue to me at this stage for which I would love to hear others' feedback.


I too have a similar sounding role.

When I need to have my oxygen around I have it in a backpack along with the regulator, mask, Red Bull, etc. This normally just sits there until I need to use it. Most of the time I'm on site, working in open plan offices or in meetings. Because I've no control over when a CH might turn up, I've let people know about them including the fact that I might suddenly have to walk out of a meeting or away from my desk.

If I get a CH I just grab the backback and head somewhere private, it could be to an office, staircase or somewhere similar. I'll kill the CH off and be back at work in about 10 minutes, which I always make up and more.

This works very well for me and also for my employer / customers.
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