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LasVegas

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O2 Regulator Help Needed
Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 1:57pm

I picked up a few O2 tanks off Craigslist.

Pretty sure they are E tanks as they are approx 2 feet high.

Medical grade o2 with white tape sealed around the top.

Now 2 challenges...
1. getting a regulator that will fit and
2. also provide enough LPM.

I've called around local o2 medical supply co and the max LPM I found was 8 LPM. This is not acceptable. Furthermore, they all require a prescription to purchase these. So realistically, these E tanks will be a 1 x use (cheaper/safer than Imitrex) and/or fill on my own once I got an M tank.

Seems like my only hope are welders supply co that will sell welders regulators without a prescription. But these regulators do not display LPM, they display PSI. So I am confused about the mathematical conversion. See photo attached of a regulator that is available for me to purchase today.

Pretty sure the E tanks take a CGA 670 fitting and the photo attached is for a CGA 540 fitting. Obviously this is a problem.

Once I find a regulator that will fit, how do I know how many LPM a PSI gauge will offer.

Is there a mathematical calculation available such as 4000 PSI = 15 LPM?

I want to try and get a regulator today while stores are still open before this long Labor Day weekend, so any immediate replies would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

PS...I realize I need high flow LPM, but if I can get 12LPM to 15LPM until my back ordered 0-60 LPM regulator arrives, then I will just have to breathe a bit longer. Better than no o2 at all.

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« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 4:27pm by LasVegas »

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Skyhawk5 CH.com Alumnus Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1320 Ypsilanti, Mi. USA Gender:	Re: O2 Regulator Help Needed Reply #1 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 2:17pm The problem will be finding a place that will fill the tanks. Most will only fill there own. Liability. Good luck. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be along. Search out posts by Marc for how to fill them yourself from welding. Don :edited cause I'm on 'dopeymax'
Back to top	« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 2:24pm by Skyhawk5 » Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the Beast , I have O2 so I fear him not. IP Logged

LasVegas

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Re: O2 Regulator Help Needed
Reply #2 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 2:24pm

Skyhawk5 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 2:17pm:

The problem will be finding a place that will fill the tanks. Most will only fill there own. Liability. Good luck.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be along.

Don

I understand these E tanks are a 1 x use, as the fill will be a problem w/o prescription.

But I bought 2 E tanks for only $20 each that are filled/sealed by medical supplier. Even for a 1 x use, it is cheap compared to Imitrex injections.

Plus I could always hookup a contraption to fill at home from an M tank, when I get an M tank.

I have been searching craigslist for o2 tanks and regulators. As mentioned above, I bought 2 sealed/filled E tanks. But I now have the challenges of finding a proper regulator.

Everybody I spoke to this morning (over 10 people selling o2 tanks/regulators) all have regulators that only go to 5 LPM, worthless for us CH'ers.

However, below is a photo of a regulator that is available for sale locally that looks similar to the photo seen from the oxygen info tab. The lady selling this regulator says the # on the regulator goes up to 3000 PSI. I looked at the similar photo from the o2 tab and noticed the # for LPM is close the the black dial on the side. I asked her about this and she said it goes to 8. Although 8LPM is low compared to everybody's successful reports, I think for $40 bucks I am going to get it and try it. I will advise on this thread when I next get hit, how this 8LPM worked or not. It's worth a chance, as it's all I got for now.

So is it safe to assume that 3000 PSI = 8 LPM?

As we can all clearly see, there are many variables and many challenges involved of obtaining welders o2. But I believe it is worth the challenge, as I have no health insurance and must go the welders route.

It would be nice if we could conclude the mathematical conversion of PSI to LPM....anybody familiar?

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« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 5:05pm by LasVegas »

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Marc

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Re: O2 Regulator Help Needed
Reply #3 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 5:24pm

You cannot convert the PSI reading on a welding gauge to LPM on a medical rig. Liters per minute is flow, PSI is pressure and they are not interchangeable like degrees C and F. Keep in mind that people using demand type regulators don’t know how many LPM they are getting. They just know that it’s “enough.”

More on this in the link I referenced earlier: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

Fortunately, you don’t need to care because a welding regulator can give you as much or as little flow that you want. Simply adjust it to keep pace with your breathing – that’s it. Start by turning the regulator all the way down (CCW) then open the tank valve. Gradually turn the regulator CW until you get enough to breath in/out very deeply without wasting a bunch. (Depending upon how deeply you can do it, you will see between 2-7 PSI on the output gauge)

The other gauge is the pressure in the tank. A full tank will be in the 2200 to 2600 PSI range depending what type it is.

Also from another page I referred you to earlier: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

you can see regulators with pictures showing the difference between the fittings on E size medical tanks (CGA-870) and large medical tanks (CGA-540).

It is important to note that ALL welding tanks use the same fitting as large medical tanks. This page shows what you need to use a welding regulator on a small E size tank: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

Recap:
1) ALL welding tanks use the identical CGA-540 fittings as large medical tanks like the M, K &H
2) Most small medical tanks of E size and smaller, use a very different connection: CGA-870

There are adapters to interchange the two, but you will have to order them online. You can also buy a special hose kit to fill small tanks from a large one.

All of the above is discussed in more detail on several pages in the links above.

What did I miss?

Marc

Edit to add: The regulator in your picture is a CGA-870 type. The gauge on that regulator shows only what is in the tank.

On the left end of that regulator is a dial that you turn to change flow rate in LPM. There are markings on the dial that you turn to set the flow rate. As you have found, the really common one's are 0-8 LPM. But, 0-15 LPM and 0-25 LPM are readily available online.

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« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 5:30pm by Marc »

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Batch

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Control The Beast With
O2 & D3 You Must

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Re: O2 Regulator Help Needed
Reply #4 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 5:24pm

No sense in buying an oxygen regulator unless it's capable of delivering at least 25 liters/minute. Better yet, get one capable of 0-60 lpm and you'll never be sorry. They run around $190 from Flotec Inc.

If you've a requirement for a roadie to cover you during local travel... you may need two regulators....

I found using an aluminum M60 preferable to an E-size oxygen cylinder... It gave me 10 to 12 aborts where the E was only good for 3, and the M60 had the same CGA-540 fill fitting as the larger M-size I used at home so the same regulator worked for both... I also purchased a CGA-540 to CGA-540 fill pigtail to fill the M60 from the full size M cylinders.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

My "Roadie" with a Flotec InGage™ 0-60 lpm CGA-540 regulator

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

The CGA-540 to CGA-540 transfiller pigtail I use to refill the M60 from the larger M-size oxygen cylinders.

I ordered the M60 from LifeGas and the transfiller pig tail from Cumulus Soaring at Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

Hope this helps...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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LasVegas CH.com Sponsor Offline Episodic CH since 11 yrs old, now 50. Posts: 2020 north of the 60th parallel Gender:	Re: O2 Regulator Help Needed Reply #5 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 5:31pm Understood, thank you both Marc & Batch! Just wanted to get something for the next 2 weeks til my $190 dollar 0--60 LPM arrives from Flotec, then will need to spend another $300 for the M tank-cheapest I could find. $500 and a month of waiting...but I've used it many years ago and it works!!!
Back to top	« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 5:33pm by LasVegas » Wishing everybody at CH.com less pain w/ more productivity in their lives in 2019 IP Logged

Marc

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Re: O2 Regulator Help Needed
Reply #6 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 5:50pm

I would REALLY suggest leasing tanks, either medical or welding. Check with your O2 distributor to see if they will fill your tank - some will, some won't.

If you decide that you do want to buy your own M tank, there is one for a whole lot less than $500 in this link I posted earlier: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

And if you shop, you can get lower than that one at $215.

Final note I'll shut up: If you have a welding regulator, why spend the money for a demand regulator? The welding regulator can go from smoothly 0 to 100's of lpm.

If you adjust the flow rate to match your breathing, they will both use the same amount of O2.

Your choice - just curious why?

Marc

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« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 5:55pm by Marc »

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LasVegas

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Episodic CH since 11 yrs
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Re: O2 Regulator Help Needed
Reply #7 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 6:47pm

Marc wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 5:50pm:

I would REALLY suggest leasing tanks, either medical or welding. Check with your O2 distributor to see if they will fill your tank - some will, some won't.

If you decide that you do want to buy your own M tank, there is one for a whole lot less than $500 in this link I posted earlier: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

And if you shop, you can get lower than that one at $215.

Final note I'll shut up: If you have a welding regulator, why spend the money for a demand regulator? The welding regulator can go from smoothly 0 to 100's of lpm.

If you adjust the flow rate to match your breathing, they will both use the same amount of O2.

Your choice - just curious why?

Marc

Hi Marc,
Still need to re-read what you and Batch wrote previously, but in regards to this post i am quoting...I agree that leasing a tank would be ideal. The problem there for me is that I have poor credit and they told me they require a credit check with deposit equivalent in price to a purchase, so I might as well just make my 1 x time life long purchase.

Welders o2 is the only option for me as I have no health insurance and medical oxygen suppliers will not lease nor sell tanks without a prescription.

As for refills, only welders tanks can be refilled from a gas supplier, as medical oxygen suppliers require a prescription. The E tanks that I purchased will either be a 1 x use (still cheaper/safer than Imitrex inj) and/or re-filled at home with a contraption similar to what Batch had displayed in a photo seen above.

As for the $500 I am about to spend, perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote. The regulator that I am ordering from Flotec costs $190 and is on back order of 2 to 4 weeks before arrival. The M tank (from a welders supplier) includes 1st fill cost $300. This M tank is available for pickup locally without shipping fees and the hassle of then going to get the 1st fill, as it arrives empty. So it is roughly $500 total for the regulator and the filled M tank. Refills for the M tank will cost $25 bucks.

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LasVegas CH.com Sponsor Offline Episodic CH since 11 yrs old, now 50. Posts: 2020 north of the 60th parallel Gender:	Re: O2 Regulator Help Needed Reply #8 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 6:56pm Hi Batch, Thanks for this info on the pigtail. I as going to eventually inquire where to buy one as this piece will be my last purchase of the o2 puzzle.
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LasVegas CH.com Sponsor Offline Episodic CH since 11 yrs old, now 50. Posts: 2020 north of the 60th parallel Gender:	Re: O2 Regulator Help Needed Reply #9 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 7:05pm Hi Marc, Just re-read your posting and p[aid close attention to the links with photos....PRICELESS!!! Awesome info, thanks so very much, it is all crystal clear now!
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