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  New CH.com Forum › Cluster Headache Help and Support › Medications,  Treatments,  Therapies › Welders O2 ?'s
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Welders O2 ?'s (Read 7401 times)
LasVegas
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Welders O2 ?'s
Aug 28th, 2011 at 12:49pm  
I have no medical insurance so need to use welders O2.

To purchase an M tank is very costly, so thought renting may be the way to go.  But if I need to purchase, then so be it.

Finding it challenging to locate a large M size tank for rent here in Las Vegas, unless I have a medical prescription which I have no insurance.  Any suggestions?

Is a welders supply company the easiest source to...
A-rent AND/OR purchase an M tank, without insurance?
B-obtain initial filling/re-filling O2, without insurance?

What is the average cost for those familiar with:
A-Renting an M tank?
B-Purchasing an M tank?
C-Filling an M tank?

Lastly, when needing to re-fill an M tank (if re-fill delivery is N/A) does one use a handcart on wheels to transport or is this a self-carry?

Seems like it would be very heavy to self-carry when filled.

Thanks in advance.
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Marc
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #1 - Aug 28th, 2011 at 1:53pm  
Read this page and the two links on this page that I put together awhile back.

All of your questions (above) are answered.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Marc
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LasVegas
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #2 - Aug 29th, 2011 at 2:42am  
Hi Marc,
Thanks for this, already checked it out.

With all the talk about welders o2 and difficulties that others have expressed obtaining o2 from their doctor,,,, there has to be be others here on this board willing to share personal experiences/suggestions/answers to my questions/etc

Thanks in advance
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #3 - Aug 29th, 2011 at 4:40am  
Hey LV,

Just went this route last week for the first time.....there's a small welding gas supply not far from my house......went in all set with a "story" but just told the guy I needed to lease an M tank for a month or so......no questions asked.....although my deposit was higher than Marcs at $150.....$6/mo rent and $19.50 for a refill.

Although it was extremely heavy, I was able to get it out of the truck, up the steps, and into the house by myself without a cart.

DD
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #4 - Aug 29th, 2011 at 12:07pm  

I was lucky enough to have a friend who broke up his welding duo and give me his 02 tank.  It costs me 26 dollars to fill.
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #5 - Aug 29th, 2011 at 4:54pm  
Las Vegas,
 
My story was that my girlfriend friend Andy from art school was coming up for a week's visit.  Andy is a sculpture artist and makes his sculptures by cutting scrap metal.  Since he was going to be in town, Andy was going to show her and I the ropes on how to cut metal.  Andy had asked me to pick up a fresh O2 cylinder prior to his arrival.  All of the other equipment he had in his trunk. 
 
I opted for this story because it gave me a reasonable excuse for not knowing much about welding.  It also explained me only needing the oxygen, when typically a first-time setup would require buying a torch, acetylene, strikers, caddy, gloves, mask etc.  The story also gave me some cover for re-fills, because I was planning on saying that my girlfriend was the one who really got into cutting metal and she was just having me get her cylinder re-filled for her.  I wasn't ever questioned after the first time, though.
   
I ended up doing a one-year lease for $43 plus refills @ $14.  The deposit was over $100, but I'll get that back when I turn the cylinder in.  I bought my regulator from a legit medical equipment dealer (no Rx required).  Paid a lot more for the regulator than if I'd have gone to Ebay, but I don't trust ebay.
   
As for cylinder transport, I just lugged it by hand to the back of my hatchback and secured it in the trunk via tie-down.  When full, the cylinder weighed maybe 60 lbs.  If that is too bulky for you, feel free to bring a dolly to the supply place.  Or, you can ask the guys there to carry it out for you.  At home, I don't have a caddy for it, so I chained it to a column post in my basement to keep it from falling over.
 
-Ken
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LasVegas
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #6 - Aug 29th, 2011 at 10:22pm  
Thanks for all of you sharing these personal stories.

I would love to read more and encourage anybody w/ personal experience obtaining welders o2 to share their story.

Certainly these stories can help all of us in need of welders o2 w/ creative ideas, strategies, do's/dont's, etc.
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #7 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 9:02am  
Hello, unhappy about being back on the board after 5 years PF but it's always nice finding people who know what I'm going through.

Is there any risk in using a welding O2 tank as opposed to a medicinal one?  Are they not as clean or anything like that?  I spoke to my Neuro about getting a tank several years ago and he said he has no problem prescribing one, but I can't get in to see him for 2 weeks.

My neighbor is a welder had has several tanks not in use, do they need any kind of conversion or anything or can I just start huffin' it down?

Thanks for any insight!

~Jake
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #8 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 10:10am  
jhammer wrote on Aug 30th, 2011 at 9:02am:
Hello, unhappy about being back on the board after 5 years PF but it's always nice finding people who know what I'm going through.

Is there any risk in using a welding O2 tank as opposed to a medicinal one?  Are they not as clean or anything like that?  I spoke to my Neuro about getting a tank several years ago and he said he has no problem prescribing one, but I can't get in to see him for 2 weeks.

My neighbor is a welder had has several tanks not in use, do they need any kind of conversion or anything or can I just start huffin' it down?

Thanks for any insight!

~Jake

If he's already said he has no problem prescribing one, why don't you just call his office and ask him to phone/fax the order into the durable medical goods supplier? Why would you need to see him?
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #9 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 10:54am  
Proper Wording for Prescription

Oxygen @ flow rate of 15 liters/minute with a non-rebreather mask, as required.
"AS NEEDED FOR CLUSTER HEADACHES."


FAX him this request for a prescription.

Joe
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #10 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 11:34am  
Back in 2006-7 I decided to switch Neurologists since my original one wasn't very aggressive and kept prescribing the same things that didn't work for me.  That's when I got with this Doc.  I made an appt. with him in the 'off season' so he could get familiar with my history which is when he said he has no problem prescribing O2.  Fortunately it never came to that...I've pretty much been in remission ever since.  Now they're back. 

I called to make an appt. w/him and they said that they could not see me until December 20th.  I kind of 'obtained' his personal email address and made contact with him so now I have an appt. with him in two weeks.  I don't want to ask any more favors at this point, I'm grateful for the priority treatment.  I'm just trying to find a way to deal with it until then.
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #11 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 11:54am  
Asking a physician to order a prescription is not "asking a favor." It's what they do.

Your choice, I guess.
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #12 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 7:35pm  
LasVegas wrote on Aug 29th, 2011 at 10:22pm:
Thanks for all of you sharing these personal stories.

I would love to read more and encourage anybody w/ personal experience obtaining welders o2 to share their story.

Certainly these stories can help all of us in need of welders o2 w/ creative ideas, strategies, do's/dont's, etc.


Still not convinced?
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LasVegas
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #13 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 9:33pm  
Convinced about what?

Every 2 cents that we add to each thread of personal experience only benefits everybody reading.  My inquiry for continued sharing of do's/don'ts, strategies, etc as it pertains to welders o2 has nothing to do w/ being "convinced".

Today I found a place here in Las Vegas that will sell me a 200 cubic ft o2 tank including the 1st fill, for $300+tax. 

They do not offer rentals unless you have excellent credit, which mine is poor so not a personal option.

Refills are $25 bucks, as needed.

Going to still continue searching for other suppliers here in Las Vegas, as I think these prices are kinda high, and I would prefer to rent with a refundable deposit regardless of my credit.

Also, if you are familiar, please help identify what size this tank is within the attached photo...found it listed for sale on Craigslist...
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« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2011 at 12:10am by LasVegas »  
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #14 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 12:26am  
Here is another photo of a tank I found for sale on Craigslist...

The ad states it measures 29"x4 1/2" (inches) and is filled w/ o2 and sealed.

Not ideal as I want a larger tank such as the larger photo seen above, but this might do for travel in the car, etc.

Can somebody please help identify the size of this tank in the photo, I think it might be an E tank!?

...thanks in advance
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« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2011 at 12:44am by LasVegas »  
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #15 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 8:39am  
Has anyone ever had a medical grade O2 tank filled at a welding gas supply company?

I may be able to get my hands on one of those really soon but it is empty.  Just curious if I would get questioned about using a tank like that for welding...
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #16 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 5:45pm  
jhammer wrote on Aug 31st, 2011 at 8:39am:
Has anyone ever had a medical grade O2 tank filled at a welding gas supply company?

I may be able to get my hands on one of those really soon but it is empty.  Just curious if I would get questioned about using a tank like that for welding...


They will not fill it.

For portability, I just fill my medical tanks from my large welding tank.

Marc
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #17 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 5:54pm  
LasVegas wrote on Aug 31st, 2011 at 12:26am:
Here is another photo of a tank I found for sale on Craigslist...
The ad states it measures 29"x4 1/2" (inches) and is filled w/ o2 and sealed.
Not ideal as I want a larger tank such as the larger photo seen above, but this might do for travel in the car, etc.

Can somebody please help identify the size of this tank in the photo, I think it might be an E tank!?

...thanks in advance


Handy listing of medical oxygen tank sizes. (They aren't the lowest price)  Yes, that may indeed be an E tank in the picture.

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The larger welding tank in the first picture is either a K or a T size tank.

Keep in mind that both welding and medical tanks are stamped with a date. Once that date hits 10 years, the tank must be re-certified before anyone will fill it. Be cautious in buying older tanks.

I bought new Jumbo D tanks for car travel, and fill them from my leased welding T tank.

FWIW, my $50/year tank lease is with Praxair - and they have a facility in your area. 

Marc
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« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2011 at 5:57pm by Marc »  
 
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LasVegas
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #18 - Sep 3rd, 2011 at 8:32pm  
from the Initial oxygen study results pdf....

"12% of CH patients in the United States are getting welder grade oxygen because of the costs of medical grade oxygen and this form of oxygen could be potentially dangerous to the individual user."



Why is it potentially dangerous?
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #19 - Sep 3rd, 2011 at 8:41pm  
I would suggest that you ask the person who wrote it.

Did you get O2 yet?
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #20 - Sep 3rd, 2011 at 8:46pm  
The study is seen at the top of the O2 tab, don't know how to contact the author but imagine it has something to do with the cleanliness procedures a medical supplier will perform as compared to no standards on cleanliness for filling by a welder supply co.  Thoughts?

Yes Marc, I picked up 3 medical E tanks (filled/sealed) from Craigslist and a regulator up to 8LPM, it will tie me over hopefully til I get my M tank from the welder supply co on Tuesday.  High flow regulator from Flotec on order and should arrive in 2 to 4 weeks.
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #21 - Sep 3rd, 2011 at 9:20pm  
LasVegas wrote on Sep 3rd, 2011 at 8:46pm:
.....................but imagine it has something to do with the cleanliness procedures a medical supplier will perform as compared to no standards on cleanliness for filling by a welder supply co. 

Thoughts?



At this point my thought is that you should probably see a doctor to get a script for O2. Then go and negotiate a low rate with the O2 supplier by explaining that you don't have insurance.

Marc
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #22 - Sep 4th, 2011 at 12:53am  
Marc wrote on Sep 3rd, 2011 at 9:20pm:
LasVegas wrote on Sep 3rd, 2011 at 8:46pm:
.....................but imagine it has something to do with the cleanliness procedures a medical supplier will perform as compared to no standards on cleanliness for filling by a welder supply co. 

Thoughts?



At this point my thought is that you should probably see a doctor to get a script for O2. Then go and negotiate a low rate with the O2 supplier by explaining that you don't have insurance.

Marc

No need to get medical o2 as you Marc have provided all the info I need to know about welders o2, thank you very much, sincerely appreciated by me and I would imagine everybody else wanting to understand.

I'm just curious what reason the author of the most recently professional oxygen study that is provided on our website considers it potentially dangerous.
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #23 - Sep 4th, 2011 at 5:39am  
LasVegas wrote on Sep 4th, 2011 at 12:53am:
I'm just curious what reason the author of the most recently professional oxygen study that is provided on our website considers it potentially dangerous.


It is potentially dangerous as:
  • It is not perfectly safe, i.e. there is not 0% risk in using it.
  • It can not be provable to be safer than medical oxygen, therefore it is potentially more dangerous than medical oxygen.


That said there are lots of people on the forums who use it perfectly fine.
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Re: Welders O2 ?'s
Reply #24 - Sep 4th, 2011 at 8:40am  
A very common arrangement is O2 blended with Acetylene or propane to make a flame for cutting/brazing/soldering, etc. The two gases are blended by the torch, the tanks stay isolated from each other. It is possible that cross contamination of the two tanks could occur because of bad check valves and/or procedures on the part of the last user of that particular tank. If you have a supplier who will fill your own tank, this cannot occur.

Acetylene and propane have a very strong unpleasant odor in very small concentrations. Simple concept: If your O2 smells like rotten eggs, don’t breathe it.

Welding and medical oxygen tanks are filled from the same source, using the same hose. Welding O2 is medical O2.
- Medical tanks are pumped down to high vacuum before filling
- Welding tanks are given a “sniff test” before filling

Pure clean oxygen is required for industrial uses. Impurities will result in sub-standard performance, so the oxygen suppliers have a vested interest in providing clean gas to customers.

I have never had a problem, nor met anyone else who has had a problem. Please note that the transfill hose kits are sold for private pilots to fill their own tanks - many of them are using welding O2 - it isn't just Clusterheads!

Could a problem occur? Sure, but the odds of getting into a car accident are much higher and that doesn’t make me walk everywhere. Once a person has met a true K9 or K10, the so called “risk” of using welding O2 becomes essentially non-existent.

BUT, I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT YOU ACTUALLY BREATHE WELDING OXYGEN, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.

Marc
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