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Racer1_NC CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline "Well, let's go see." Posts: 4417 Lewisville, NC Gender:	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #25 - Jun 13^th, 2011 at 2:38pm Keep in mind that 25lpm regs can be had on ebay. One does not have to spend a great deal of cash for relief.
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Batch

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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #26 - Jun 13^th, 2011 at 5:46pm

JBOGG,

It's very difficult to hyperventilate with an oxygen flow rate of 15 liters/minute even with an O2PTIMASK kit with the 3-liter reservoir bag.

The best indication you're actually hyperventilating is you start experiencing the symptoms of paresthesia - a very slight tingling or prickling of the fingertips, lips, or back of the neck. You may also experience a slight dizziness. These are also the normal symptoms for a condition called respiratory alkalosis. The symptoms and these conditions are harmless if you've intentionally hyperventilated. They're also essential if you want a fast abort ~ 7 minutes on average.

As to the chest discomfort and tightness... anything is possible, but I suspect you've made your lungs work a lot harder than usual so most of the discomfort is likely coming from the intercostal muscles that expand and contract the rib cage during higher tidal volume breathing.

The tightness and discomfort should clear in a day or two... If the tightness or discomfort continue after that, see your doctor.

You may want to try a redneck reservoir bag made out of a 40 gal trash bag or 55 gal drum liner until your Flotec regulator arrives.

They work great and there is no restriction, resistance or work of breathing during the inhalation cycle. You can also fill your lungs completely and very rapidly in a single gulp. I've used make-shift reseroir bags like this on several occasions and was able to feel the symptoms of paresthesia starting in 3 to 4 breaths using the forced vital capacity breathing technique...

Get some Duck Tape a clean trash bag. Fold the open end of the bag over an inch a couple times then use the Duck Tape to seal the fold for a gas tight seal. Cut a half inch corner off one of the opposite end corners and slip over the lower part of the O2PTIMASK™ kit "T" manifold.

Fold the "T" manifold over the bag and wrap a rubber band around the lower part for a gas tight seal then fill the redneck reservoir bag ahead of time for future use.

When the beast strikes, turn on the oxygen supply valve and take off the rubber band... You'll be able to hyperventilate easily.

Akage... As far as blacking out while hyperventilating with 100% oxygen goes... I still say it's impossible... Having said that, you can pass out if you hold your breath...

Note: I've never held my breath while trying to hyperventilate away the beast during a head banger... The thought never entered my mind...

The urge to breathe gets stronger as the level of CO2 increases above normal... not as oxygen levels decrease. Accordingly, If you've hyperoxygenated yourself with 100% oxygen and also pushed yourself into hypocapnea (lower than normal CO2 level) and respiratory alkalosis by hyperventilating for 2 to 3 minutes, then hold your breath... you can pass out before you feel the need to breath.

For free divers who hyperventilate before a free dive... this is called shallow water blackout.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #27 - Jun 13^th, 2011 at 6:31pm Quote: a redneck reservoir bag Dude, you are killing me!
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JBOGG

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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #28 - Jun 13^th, 2011 at 8:55pm

Batch....I definitely was working harder to inhale and exhale thru the Optimask. To exhale easier I started tilting the mask to break the seal around my face so I wouldn't have to work so hard exhaling. I'm seeing my doc tomorrow, hopefully she will confirm the chest discomfort is nothing to worry about.

I have been on O2 for almost two weeks, and I am going round and round with the home health co. that supplies the O2. It seems that they only have three "M" tanks, and since I went thru a tank in about 4 days, they have asked that I consider using a liquid oxygen vessel (whatever that is). Undecided

He said it would be the equivalent of a months supply of O2, and that it is used in hyperbaric chambers. Since I haven't seen a reference to this type of O2 container on this site, I am a little skeptical. Anyhow, have only had a single CH the last two nights in a row. Maybe it peaked last week. Life is easier when the beast hibernates.

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Batch

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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #29 - Jun 13^th, 2011 at 11:07pm

JBOGG,

Do not let the home oxygen therapy folks stick you with a liquid oxygen (LOX) thing! You need the compressed oxygen gas cylinders unless you plan on using the redneck reservoir from now until hell freezes over.

The max flow rate from boiling liquid oxygen to gaseous oxygen through a LOX converter without an electric resistance heater is 15 liters/minute. Try to get any more flow rate and the evaporator will freeze up and your flow rate will drop to less than 5 liters/minute. We know... and have tried it several times with all the leading LOX systems. Not worth it.

The second reason to avoid the LOX system is they cannot support the use of a demand valve.

The third reason is cost to you. While the home oxygen therapy folks will make a slightly higher profit margin on the more expensive LOX system, you and your medical insurance company will end up paying more per month.

If your home oxygen provider only has three M-size oxygen cylinders on hand at any given time tell them to order more from their fill facility... you need five (5) a month and you don't have COPD! You have Cluster Headaches and need much higher flow rates.

If they get hissey... ask if they have a physician on their staff license to practice medicine in your state... If they are changing our Rx and do not have a licensed physician on hand to change your Rx... ask them how well they think they could operate their business from behind bars...

If that's too obtuse for them... tell them you need two K-size oxygen cylinders a month... They can order these in advance from their fill facility.

Getting down to one delivery a month will make them happy as the delivery expense is what is killing their profit margin.

And yes Bill, the redneck reservoir bag really works great! Can you think of a better name?

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Jun 13^th, 2011 at 11:09pm by Batch »

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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #30 - Jun 13^th, 2011 at 11:19pm Quote: And yes Bill, the redneck reservoir bag really works great! Can you think of a better name? Oh, I know it works great because I've used one. There is no better name I can think of! I love it! It's just funny as hell.
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JBOGG

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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #31 - Jun 14^th, 2011 at 5:25pm

Great info as usual. Thanks for the lesson on Liquid O2. Definitely not an option.The delivery guy made it sound like it would take an act of Congress for them to acquire additional "M" tanks. I will ask them about the "K" tanks. It sounds like that might keep them happy.

I just returned from my docs office. She confirmed Dr. Batch's diagnosis. Wink

Thinks I strained a rib muscle, she said it is very common in Asthmatic patients who have to work hard to breath. Glad to be able to take that worry off my plate. Thanks again for all of the thoughtful responses. Oh yeah, two nights in a row without a single CH. Grin

Starting to think there might be something to this high Vitamin D with Omega 3 fish oil regimen that I started almost a week ago.

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Mike NZ CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Oxygen rocks! D3 too! Posts: 3785 Auckland, New Zealand Gender:	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #32 - Jun 15^th, 2011 at 4:11am JBOGG wrote on Jun 14^th, 2011 at 5:25pm: Starting to think there might be something to this high Vitamin D with Omega 3 fish oil regimen that I started almost a week ago. It's certainly looking like it isn't a placebo!
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Batch

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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #33 - Jun 15^th, 2011 at 9:45am

Hey JBOGG,

Great news about the rib muscles and the Omega 3/vitamin D3/cal-citrate regimen... Here's hoping you had another PF night with many more to follow.

And please... I'm not a doctor... but I did stay at a Holiday Inn a few years ago. At best, I'm a Grand Poobah of oxygen therapy and other healthy alternatives to control our disorder.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Jun 15^th, 2011 at 9:49am by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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JBOGG CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 9 Gender:	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #34 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 8:30am Batch...I was only kidding about the doc reference. But no kidding, I have received so much more helpful info from yourself and others on this site than I have ever received from any of the physicians I have seen. Thanks again for all the help.
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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #35 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 8:48am Batch wrote on Jun 15^th, 2011 at 9:45am: At best, I'm a Grand Poobah of oxygen therapy and other healthy alternatives to control our disorder. Maybe "Da Big Kahuna."
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Guiseppi CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011 Posts: 12063 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA Gender:	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #36 - Jun 16^th, 2011 at 9:28am Kahuna-Batch-Meister.........I like it! Joe
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Batch

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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #37 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 1:38am

Bill, Joe,

You're too kind... You two know me too well... My tongue was through my cheek on my comment about the "Grand Poobah of oxygen therapy..."

There are others who helped make this method of oxygen therapy come to fruition as a valid abortive with high efficacy and short abort times... Michael, Chuck, Royce, Svenn... even you two played a significant role.

We all want to help the newbies who come here looking for answers to questions about the terrible pain they suffer...

Above all... we hope we come across to the newbies as straight shooters speaking nothing but truths... and no bum gouge!

As always my friends... take care.

V/R, Batch

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neno CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 12	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #38 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 3:35am I think I'm probably at the end of the cycle. The attacks have become very mild (pain level 2 to 4). I'm wondering whether to use O2 for such mild attacks. I often have vascular headaches, maybe due to CH, and I'd like to know whether O2 helps aborting these headaches too. Neno
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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #39 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 12:05pm

Batch wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 1:38am:

We all want to help the newbies who come here looking for answers to questions about the terrible pain they suffer...

Above all... we hope we come across to the newbies as straight shooters speaking nothing but truths... and no bum gouge!

Amen, brother!

Quote:

I often have vascular headaches, maybe due to CH, and I'd like to know whether O2 helps aborting these headaches too.

I have, in my somewhat distant past, used O2 to abort hangover headaches quite successfully. I have also used it to abort severe tension-type headaches, but always did that in conjunction with 400-800mg of ibuprofen. So I'd be hard pressed to prove that it was the O2 that did the trick.

The abort times did seem significantly reduced when using the two in combination.

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Batch CH.com Alumnus Offline Control The Beast With O2 & D3 You Must Posts: 3708 Bremerton, WA Gender:	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #40 - Jun 17^th, 2011 at 1:37pm Neno, By all means... use oxygen therapy on every CH no matter how minor it may feel at the time... If the flow rate is high enough to support hyperventilation you'll get the fastest abort possible. Take care, V/R, Batch
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neno CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 12	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #41 - Jun 18^th, 2011 at 3:58am Thanks, but it seems logical to me that very mild attacks mean that the vessels are slightly dilated. Maybe by taking O2 I shrink them too much (??) which I don't find healthy. That's why I had asked does O2 help in "normal" headaches when the vessels maybe aren't dilated. Neno
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aj

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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #42 - Jun 18^th, 2011 at 10:31am

"shrink them too much" reminds me of when I was trying ergotomine for my headaches: I would take so much so often, it would cause my limbs to get cold and my legs to cramp. So I think if you were shrinking them "too much," you'd have a lot of side effects. The only side effects of too much pure oxygen only happen after like 20 hours of breathing it nonstop.

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wimsey1

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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #43 - Jun 20^th, 2011 at 10:29am

Neno, you are a bit of a worrywart, aren't ya? The deal is, O2 in the amounts we breathe, cannot hurt us. Some have felt maybe they were adapting to its effects but for the most part, you should use it to abort anything that comes your way. CHs seem to be less intractable the more quickly and the more efficiently they are aborted. I don't have any medical research on this, but pain is pain and you do not acquire extra virtue points for enduring what can be aborted. Blessings. lance

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Kay Jay CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 17 NC Gender:	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #44 - Jun 20^th, 2011 at 11:16pm how hard is it to get oxygen prescribed and to your house? I'm insured and I have read that my insurance covers that but i'm curious on the wait time. I'm also wondering if my Dr. will prescribe me such.
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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #45 - Jun 20^th, 2011 at 11:29pm

Sadly it's a crap shoot. The more enlightened doctors recognize what a safe, effective treatment it is. The ones educated in the dark ages still insist narcotics are the way to go. Good luck.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

This link has all the info your doc will need. Once he prescribes it, the tanks can be delivered the same day, wishing you luck and spped.

Joe

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Kay Jay

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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #46 - Jun 20^th, 2011 at 11:38pm

Joe, u are awesome. I'm glad you guys are here. i've visited this site before but never knew of the message boards. It's good to have fellow people who understand and share your pain. Not the pain part, but knowing you are not alone (I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy). Thanks for the information on the oxygen though. My Dr is an old fart Tongue

but i shall see if i can persuade him that this is the cheapest option for me.

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Racer1_NC CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline "Well, let's go see." Posts: 4417 Lewisville, NC Gender:	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #47 - Jun 21^st, 2011 at 1:14am Cheapest and best for many of us...... If he won't go for it, check the OUCH user recommended doctor list here:Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or for a doc close to you that will be more likely to prescribe O2 for CH.
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Kay Jay

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Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions
Reply #48 - Jun 21^st, 2011 at 6:00pm

I went to the doc this morning. He tried to prescribe me Zomig again until I told him how expensive it was. His next step was the imitrex injections, which he says are cheaper. I went with the imitrex because he said that oxygen is usually his last choice since most insurances won't cover it. He also went on to talk about how it takes up to 2wks for the oxygen to be delivered to me. So i took the imitrex prescription with my head hanging down. Then i put the prescription in at the pharmacy and called back later to get the pricing. I was quoted $108 for 4 of those injection kit things. How is this cheaper? I quickly called back and told him to cancel that prescription and put in an order for the oxygen. I called my insurance company and found that they cover up to 90% of the cost of the oxygen tanks. Hopefully they call me back tomorrow so we can get started.

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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: Oxygen Therapy Questions Reply #49 - Jun 21^st, 2011 at 6:13pm Good for you! School that stupid doctor. Even if your insurance wouldn't cover it, if you have a prescription in hand, you can negotiate a cash price with the durable medical goods provider.
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