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blacklab

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1700 - Feb 7^th, 2014 at 11:43pm

cont... hit the wrong button LOL
im picking that since my nmol level was 200 before I titrated up for a week, my levels from what I can work out might be around 230 nmol, guessing ofcourse, but its definitely worked. pryor I was steadily building with heavy shadows, and 2-3 kip 6 headaches generally evening and middle of the night, this is how my last cycle started and eventually ramped up to full blown kip 10's.
so back on track and breathing a sigh of relief !!
and lovin this regime
colin

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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1701 - Feb 8^th, 2014 at 3:31am

Hey Colin,

Thanks for the timely update... I'm beginning to think the cessation of your CH is more due to dropping the calcium supplement rather than the increased intake of vitamin D3. Based on data provided by CH'ers to date, dropping the calcium supplement appears to be responsible for a cessation of their CH symptoms.

A 25(OH)D serum concentration of 200 nmol/L, (80 ng/mL), should be sufficient to prevent CH. To me, that means stopping the calcium supplements is more of a contributing factor in the cessation of your CH attacks than increasing the serum concentration of your 25(OH)D.

I'm not sure why this is happening, but we've had several CH'ers report similar results with a cessation of their CH after stopping the calcium supplement.

If I were to hazard a guess it would be the calcium supplements are consuming more of the active vitamin D3 metabolite, 1,25(OH)2D3, as part of calcium homeostasis, leaving an insufficient concentration to prevent CH. I say this as there's no clear correlation between CH'ers taking verapamil and CH'ers who are not taking it.

In addition, the numbers are not statistically significant as yet, but it appears the possibler drop in verapamil effectiveness due to the calcium supplements is not a factor.

I'm in the process of revising the anti-inflammatory regimen to lower the calcium intake to a range between 220 mg/day and 500 mg/day as well as making it optional. In other words, stop taking it, if there's an increase in CH frequency after starting this regimen or there's no favorable response after a week to 10 days.

Thanks again for the update. Information like this can only help improve the dosing strategy of this regimen and make it more effective.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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Chuffy

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1702 - Feb 8^th, 2014 at 7:37am

Just to let you know I am now 14 months PF since starting this regimen. On occasions where I have felt the beast was lurking I just take more D3 for a couple of days and it gets rid of it. Last blood test I had I was running at just over 200 n/mol.

I also have a question about the calcium supplement. I have just started reading ths book about Vitamin D3 Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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It's well worth a look at, the one thing the author mentions early on is calcium. Basically that too much of it in the blood can be dangerous and D3 itself affects the levels in the body. He suggests taking Vitamin K2 in a certain form that removes the calcium from the bloodstream and into the bones/tissues where we need it.

Any thoughts on this?

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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1703 - Feb 8^th, 2014 at 2:29pm

Hey Rob,

Thanks for the update... The info regarding taking calcium and vitamin K2 while taking vitamin D3 at the doses we take is spot on... but I hesitate to call it dangerous... Vitamin D is one of, if not the, safest nutrients we can take.

That said, vitamin D3 does increase calcium kinetics, (primarily an increased absorption of calcium from the gut).

As calcium homeostasis maintains the concentration of serum calcium in a very narrow reference range, the increased calcium mobility results in either an increase in bone mineral density (BMD) or the kidneys filter out any excess calcium and it's pumped over the side in urine...

The 500 mg/day calcium supplement part of this regimen is primarily there as insurance against loss of BMD in the event CH'ers are not getting enough through calcium through dietary sources. With insufficient calcium from dietary sources, vitamin D3 would mobilize more calcium from the bones resulting in an eventual loss of BMD.

As most of us have an adequate calcium from dietary sources, skipping the calcium supplement part of this regimen shouldn't increase the risk of loss of BMD.

We also added vitamin K2 to this regimen about a year ago to compensate for the increased calcium kinetics. The added side effect of taking vitamin K2 is improved cardiovascular health as vitamin K2 directs calcium away from soft tissues and arteries sending it instead to the bones...

The interesting result of eliminating calcium from this regimen has been an increase in its effectiveness for CH'ers who have been taking this regimen for more than a few weeks without positive results. This has also helped CH'ers who experienced an up-tic in the frequency of their CH after starting this regimen.

As I indicated in an earlier post, I'm in the process of revising the dosing instructions for calcium, lowering it to a range of 220 to 500 mg/day and making it optional should the CH'er experience an up-tick in CH frequency, or not respond to the complete regimen after a week to 10 days.

Take care and thanks again for the update.

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Feb 8^th, 2014 at 2:32pm by Batch »

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blacklab

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1704 - Feb 8^th, 2014 at 9:22pm

thanks batch, that's a very interesting read.
before they returned I had reduced my calcium to 200mg and my magnesium to 225mg, so I dropped the calcium lifted the magnesium to 450mg and doubled the fishoil to 3000mg.
hard call then I suppose, with dropping the calcium and titrating for a week on the vit d was done at the same time.
im currently, as mentioned p/f and my intake is 15,000 vitd 300mg magnesium, 200mg calcium and 3000mg fish oil with the multi vit centrum plus.
i'll see how I track over the next month on those levels, and keep an eye on your updates on the regime.
although im on a small dose of verapamil 180mg daily, gee i'de love to go off them and be stand alone on the regime ! ive been on verapamil for a year now, originally 270mg, then reduced to 240 and now 180mg, I suppose I was just waiting for a good few months p/f even of shadows then i'de wean completely off them.
I go away for 2 week holiday mid march, so If p/f up until then, i'll have my holiday then try and go off them and go stand alone on the regime..
thanks for your comments batch, I always watch with interest on anyones experiences on the regime and your responses.
regards
colin

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Batch CH.com Alumnus Offline Control The Beast With O2 & D3 You Must Posts: 3708 Bremerton, WA Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1705 - Feb 8^th, 2014 at 11:28pm Colin, You're on the right track... Keep it up and there should be no problem remaining pain free. Have a great trip... I'll be heading South... and East to Key West, Florida in March so I may be off the net for a week. Take care, V/R, Batch
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blacklab

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1706 - Feb 8^th, 2014 at 11:41pm

just as a foot not batch, I presumed that k2 was in my multi vitamin ! which I was wrong, only k1 which can be scourced thru green vegatables etc but not k2
I couldn't find your thread on when you introduced it, so I could look at what strength to take
so I did a google search and found some interesting literature on not only vit k2 but d3, magnesium and calcium. they were saying exactly what you said, that k2 directs where the calcium goes to, ie bones and teeth.
but one English doctor was discussing high vit d3 intakes, which she said this along with calcium supplements can cause calcium deposits to occur in places that could actually cause harm, ie kidney stones or worse arteries. she said it was a real concern and the only way to prevent this is to take vit k2. infact she went on to say that taking hi vit d3, combination with magnesium and calcium supplements without taking vit k2 could be detrimental. with vit d sucking calcium into the stomack where it can disperse to un wanted areas, the addition of vit k2 acts as a policeman, directing calcium to where its needed and keeping the arteries free from build up. one of her interesting comments was that vit d3 has a direct influence or connection to over 300 genes !.
dosage was mentioned, saying that if you were taking 8000iu of vit d3, that a daily dose suggested of vit k2 of between 180-250 mg but commented that daily requirements could actually be a lot more. she said that it is found in our stomach wall but were largely inactive, but by supplementing it actually activates the dormant k2 in our stomach and starts doing its job, there seems to be no evidence of intoxication so looks really safe.
I sure haven't been taking any k2 supplements with the regime, so ive promptly ordered some on line, I cant find what doage you recommended batch or whether they are the same as what the above doctor was reccommening, but gee, certainly does sound like an important one to take !!!
colin

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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1707 - Feb 9^th, 2014 at 12:39pm

Colin,

You've obviously been reading Dr. Mecola and excerpts from Dr. Kate Rheaume-Bleue's book titled: "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life."

I've read many of the same articles on vitamin K2... as well as the results of several studies on vitamin K2 with respect to building bone mineral density and improving cardiovascular health. Fascinating to say the least.

For the benefit of others who haven't read through this material, you can find an excellent review of compiled information on vitamin K1 and K2 (MK-4 & MK-7) at the following VitaminDWiki page:

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In general, Vitamin K1 promotes clotting or Koagulationsvitamin for which it was named...

The roles and importance of vitamin K2 have only been the topic of relatively recent research. For example, according to clinicaltrials.gov, there have been 29 RCTs since 2005, 19 RCTs since 2010 and six in the last year involving vitamin K2 (Menaquinones)

I've been taking a vitamin K supplement called Super K with Advanced K2 Complex made by the Life Extension Foundation (LEF).

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Each liquid softgel contains 1000 mcg vitamin K1 and the vitamin K2 complex (1000 mcg MK-4 and 200 mcg MK-7). This dose is consistent with the recommended vitamin K2 dose of 100 mcg for every 1000 IU of vitamin D3.

It's very important to consult with your PCP if you're taking coumadin (warfarin) or other blood thinners before taking vitamin K1 or vitamin K2.

Take care and thanks again for posting the info on vitamin K2.

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Feb 13^th, 2014 at 4:34pm by Batch »

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thierry

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1708 - Feb 9^th, 2014 at 3:13pm

Hi Batch, i've been reading the last couple of posts about K2 and it makes for interesting reading.
For the last few months I've been getting some pains at my lower back (around where the kidneys are), i did wonder if it had anything to do with the regimen but brushed off that idea.
After reading Blacklab and your posts, i now think that it could be because of a calcium deposit in my kidneys. below is the link to the Vit K2 I've been taking since i have started on the regimen.

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I have been taking 1 capsule/day which is only 120mcg/day which according to what you wrote is very insufficient. As per your regimen I take 10000iu D3 (+ weekly loading dose) and 400mg calcium citrate/day as well as the rest of the supplements.
What do you think?
Again thank you for your precious inputs

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« Last Edit: Feb 9^th, 2014 at 3:21pm by thierry »

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thierry CH.com Alumnus Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 406 Galway, Ireland Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1709 - Feb 9^th, 2014 at 3:16pm wow Life extension super K isn't cheap, $22.50 on iherb.
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TheAndyT CH.com Junior Offline Love is our resistance... Posts: 65 North Hollywood, California Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1710 - Feb 9^th, 2014 at 4:23pm All this K2 stuff is verrry interesting. I decided to get myself a bottle of that Life Extension Super K to add to the regimen. Thierry, I think iherb was the cheapest I found after taking into account shipping etc...
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erk

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1711 - Feb 9^th, 2014 at 8:06pm

I agree this K2 stuff is a fascinating subject and a possible correlation for my struggles has re-entered my mind. Up until approx. Oct. I had been taking a separate K2 (mk-7) 90 mcg dose . After that, I only had the 30 mcg "vitamin K" in the Centrum Silver, as I wanted to cut down on the number of tablets for simplicity.
When I went into cycle again in Nov., First thought I had was about this change, but I failed to act upon or mention in any of my posts.
Revising my original guess, perhaps it wouldn't have necessary to drop the calcium had I have been taking suffient doses of K2???

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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1712 - Feb 9^th, 2014 at 10:37pm

Hey Thierry,

Thanks for the update. For starters, I'd drop the calcium supplement completely for a few weeks. If the lower back pains subside, we've another datum on this regimen. It's also likely the vitamin K2 you're taking with 120 mcg MK-7, will work with the vitamin D3 to better utilize the calcium you're getting from dietary sources.

Second, If you're still pain free, I think you can drop the loading dose. 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 is an adequate maintenance dose for most CHe'rs... that said, after looking over your posts, 15,000 IU/day may be a better maintenance dose for you. Another 25(OH)D lab test will say for sure.

Yes... the Super K with advanced K2 from LEF is a little pricey... With shipping to Ireland that should work out to around 37 cents USD/day...

There are other sources of vitamin K2. For example, Nature's Life Vitamin K-2 Menatetrenone, (MK-4) -- 5000 mcg - 60 Tablets. See:

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The cost is $15 USD plus $10 USD to ship via DHL Global mail to Ireland. If you take one every 4 days, that works out to a little over 10 cents a day. The kicker here may be the half-live of MK-4.

The problem we face with vitamin K2 (MK-4 and MK-7) is there have been very few studies done with study participants also taking vitamin D3... like a total of 2 and one of them is still recruiting...

Moreover, I'm quite sure neither of the protocols in these two studies have participants taking vitamin D3 at the doses we're taking to prevent CH...

From the available online literature, it's clear we need both vitamin D3 and vitamin K2. We already know how much vitamin D3 we need to control cluster headache...

The task now is determine how much vitamin K2, more specifically, how much MK-4 and MK-7 we need at the doses of vitamin D3 we take. We also need to know which of these two menaquinones is more important or do we require both to improve and maintain cardiovascular and BMD health?

At this point it appears the scientists at LEF have one of the better explanations on this topic... See:

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They also appear to have a reasonable approach on how much vitamin K1 and K2 complex to take with their Super K with advanced K2 complex...

Soooo... after all that, the amount of vitamin K2 you're taking is likely adequate and clearly better than not taking any at all...

Take care and thanks again for the update, questions and comments.

V/R, Batch

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blacklab

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1713 - Feb 10^th, 2014 at 12:52am

h batch, yes that's what I was reading.
and a very interesting read at that !
it is a bit pricey the k2, I found the k2 mk-7 and 90 capsules was aus $ 26.00 plus $ 7.50 delivery. i'll look for a better deal as I digest these.
she did speak about a definite corolation to deposits in arteries from those taking high levels of vit d3, and one such study where a group were on 8000iu of d3. she was extremely pro vit d3 with also taking the calcium and magnesium. there was no mention of fish oil. the vit k found in centrum is only the k1 variety, the k2 variety can also be had from eating meats, dark chicken or liver yuk on the last one LOL
the other scource was a type of Japanese food, I forget what it exactly was, but the k2 that ive ordered is of that extract.
sort of looks as though it could very well be key element for the regime and batch was spot on including it. whether or not it makes a difference with regards to excess calcium hovering in the gut, maybe effecting our verapamil a little bit ? who knows, but the k2 definitely redirects it to where it needs to go and away from our organs and arteries where it can possably cause issues.
hey, it may add to the amount off pills we have to take in a day, especially when you go on holiday, packing up your daily doses LOL but i'll take that any day over getting a calling card from our unwanted friend !!
i'll be taking 2 k2 100 mcg tablets daily with my regime.
great topic !
cheers
colin

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thierry

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1714 - Feb 10^th, 2014 at 2:45am

Hey Batch,
thank you for your interesting reply.
I'll lay off the calcium for a while and see if the lower back pain lessens or disappears all together, it's been quite bad lately, i find myself having to walk a bit bent over and that's then affecting some back muscles and they, in turn, give me pain.
I'll be getting myself some LEF Super K with my next order at Iberb, after all it's worth the few cents and with a very cheap shipping cost to Ireland ($4 up to 4lbs weight), it won't add too much to the cost of the product when combined with the other items i order + i would be ordering K2 anyway -albeit not the right one for the regimen-.
When i think about it, the cost is not too bad if i take into account the fact that i already spend $12 on a vit k2 that is not appropriate. I'll be spending $10 more for 2 months to get the right amount and the right combination of K2

All the best to you and yours and to all here.

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Chuffy

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1715 - Feb 11^th, 2014 at 7:02pm

As I only check in here now and again, a side effect of being PF I'm afraid, every time I do the regimen goal posts have moved. I have ploughed through a lot of this thread but can't seem to find the latest definitive regimen ingredients.

I currently take Omega 3, D3 and have just added the Super K to the mix. I was taking the Kirkland Calcium tabs but have just laid off those for the time being having scared myself reading about vein calcification as I was unaware of the need for K2.

So, could someone please list the 'essential' regimen ingredients. I say essential as just the D3, Omega 3 and Calcium have worked for me so the only concerns I have are inadvertently creating deficiencies/problems etc, hence me dropping the calcium and getting some K2.

EDIT: Ok, apologies, I just found Batch's Wiki on this:Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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where it gives the full list.
What I want to know is, are all the items necessary, not so much to stop the CH as I seem to manage that just with D3 and Omega3, but to balance each other out?
I now intend to take D3, Omega3, Calcium Magnesium and K2. Is that ok or do I really need the other stuff?
The main reason I ask is that I travel a lot and it will be like taking a pharmacy on the road, so the less the better!!

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« Last Edit: Feb 12^th, 2014 at 6:23am by Chuffy »

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1716 - Feb 12^th, 2014 at 6:27pm Hi Chuffy, Batch recommends you take 1/day Centrum Silver to get the other cofactors. Hoppy.
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Chuffy CH.com Veteran Offline It's just a ride. Posts: 135 x0\|\|United_Kingdom\|\|\|\| Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1717 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 4:56am Ok, thanks for the info Hoppy. Now for the next question, the 'Adult 50+' or the 'Men 50+' version?
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thierry CH.com Alumnus Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 406 Galway, Ireland Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1718 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 6:15am Hey Chuffy, Batch himself tales "Kirkland Mature Multi", It can be got amazon.co.uk. check this thread on here called "Noob on D3", link below. batch has a photo of what he takes. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or
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Chuffy CH.com Veteran Offline It's just a ride. Posts: 135 x0\|\|United_Kingdom\|\|\|\| Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1719 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 6:32am Thanks Thierry. Does Batch no longer take a separate Calcium supplement then?
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thierry CH.com Alumnus Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 406 Galway, Ireland Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1720 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 7:35am I guess so Chuffy, i asked him a question about that on the thread i linked above. Let's see what he says.
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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1721 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 3:43pm

Hey Chuffy,

Thanks for the update... Good questions and astute observations...

I'll be updating the anti-inflammatory regimen list of supplements and suggested dosing and will post it here at CH.com in the thread at the following link:

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I'll also update it at VitaminDWiki at:

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The only substantive changes will be listing the calcium supplement intake in a range between 220 and 500 mg/day with a caveat to limit or eliminate the calcium supplement temporarily while taking verapamil or if there's an up-tic in CH frequency after starting the complete regimen.

I posted the results of the survey of 110 CH'ers using the anti-inflammatory regimen at VitaminDWiki based on calls from physicians, who like you, had difficulty sorting through the 69 pages of posts in this thread and wanted a single source of the latest regimen and dosing.

Do I still take calcium supplements as part of the anti-inflammatory regimen? I sure do! The last thing I need at my age, (pushing 70), is to break a bone while I'm out in the woods with my chainsaw bucking up big logs and splitting them for fire wood...

Am I concerned that taking calcium and vitamin D3 causes arterial calcification? No.

My wife Joyce has been taking 500 mg/day calcium as part of the anti-inflammatory regimen for three years... and she kicked the heck out of 76 last Christmas...

I'm constantly trying new supplement preparations in an attempt to minimize the number of pills needed each day for this regimen.

I'm presently taking Mature Multi, (Kirkland brand from Costco), as a lower cost alternative to the calcium citrate, Centrum Silver, and other similar multivitamin preparations. One of these tablets provides 220 mg/day calcium.

Here's a photo of the clutch of supplements I'm taking:

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As to your observations... Yes, in a sense, this regimen is a balancing act... It's also been a serendipitous odyssey as we continue to improve its effectiveness in preventing CH with all beneficial side effects.

As CH'ers, we need a higher 25(OH)D serum concentration ~ 80 ng/mL, (200 nmol/L), to prevent our CH, so we're taking higher doses of vitamin D3...

We take the Omega-3 fatty acids as an adjunct anti-inflammatory agent that has the added benefits of improved vitamin D3 absorption and cardiovascular health.

In order to metabolize that much vitamin D3, we need plenty of magnesium, zinc and a dash of boron. We need these nutrients to support the enzymatic processes that metabolize vitamin D3 to 25(OH)D and 25(OH)D on to 1,25(OH)2D3, the active hormonal form.

As vitamin D3 mobilizes calcium, primarily from the gut, we need to supplement with sufficient calcium to avoid having the vitamin D3 mobilize calcium from our bones due to insufficient calcium from dietary sources...

We also need vitamin A (retinol) that combines with vitamin D3 to form the molecular bridge at the genetic level between a vitamin D receptor (VDR) and Retinoid X Receptor (RXR). This molecular bridge unlocks the genetic library that enables the genetic expression we think is responsible for preventing our CH...

The current theory of the mechanism of action... and I'm sticking with it until this hypothesis is proven otherwise... is the genetic expression made possible by vitamin D3 enables nerve cells in the trigeminal ganglion to inhibit or down regulate production of calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP).

The good Dr. Peter Goadsby and his fellow researchers found CGRP concentrations are elevated during active CH and migraine headaches. Other studies have found that CGRP is responsible for neurogenic inflammation and CH pain.

This theory starts gaining strength and it shouldn't come as a surprise, as it appears some of the big pharmas are presently in the process of developing a prescription medication to control CGRP production.

Now for the vitamin K2 (MK-4 & MK-7) supplement. I added it to the regimen for a number of reasons nearly a year ago... The first is it was finally listed as a vitamin D3 cofactor by the Vitamin D3 Council. The second reason was based on studies the vitamin K2 menaquinones MK-4 and MK-7 and their capacity to improve bone mineral density. In view of the increased calcium mobilized by vitamin D3, this appeared to be a prudent addition.

The third reason I've added vitamin K2 (MK-4, MK-7 or both) has been evolving over the last year as more studies have started researching the cardiovascular benefits of vitamin K2 and the synergistic benefits when combined with vitamin D3 and vitamin A (retinol).

Unfortunately, availability of open source data from the few gold standard studies on vitamin K2 effects on arterial calcification that have completed is limited... Most of the results I'd like to see are behind pay-walls.

Henry Lahore, he is VitaminDWiki and all things vitamin D3, keeps web crawlers and spiders running 7/24 building indexes of articles on vitamin D3 and all the cofactors including vitamin K2. He has a great page on vitamin D3 and vitamin K2... See:

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An excerpt from the above web page on the safety of supplementing with vitamin D3...

"According to Heaney, (I've been bouncing the anti-inflammatory regimen along with the results from the online survey of CH'ers using this regimen off Dr. Robert Heaney, MD for the last two years...), controlled metabolic studies with D3 found that dosages up to 50,000 IU per day for up to five months produced neither hypercalcemia nor hypercalciuria.

Hathcock et al could find no reported cases of vitamin D intoxication from daily intakes of 30,000 IU per day for extended periods, nor any intoxication from serum 25D levels up to 200 ng/mL. They concluded that a 10,000 IU daily intake should be the safe Tolerable Upper Intake Level (formally abbreviated UL) - five times the UL set by the U.S. government in 1997."

Hope this calms any angst... Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Feb 13^th, 2014 at 3:46pm by Batch »

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1722 - Feb 16^th, 2014 at 5:00am

Hi Batch
Thanks for the reply/info, very informative as usual. I just wish this forum would notify me of posts/replies, even with the thread favourited and my posts ticked I still don't get much through.

Anyway, I'm also in the process of reading Dr. Kate Rheaume-Bleue's book and what you say now actually makes sense

I have managed to source all the stuff that you use, all on Amazon UK. That now of course includes the Kirkland Multi and the Super K. I have been using different brands of Magnesium and D3 but still at 400mg and 5,000iu tabs. The Omega 3 I get from Nature's Best.

I'm going to drop the Calcium as it is in the Kirkland Multi. I have about 5 tubs of Kirkland Calcium Citrate here if anyone in the UK wants any!!

I am working in the US a couple of times this year so will try and get some of the things that are cheaper there. My main one would be the Super K, is that available in stores in the US or only online? Obviously, a trip to Costco is a given.

Thanks again.

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« Last Edit: Feb 16^th, 2014 at 5:05am by Chuffy »

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Batch

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Control The Beast With
O2 & D3 You Must

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Gender: male

Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1723 - Feb 16^th, 2014 at 5:29pm

Hey Chuffy,

Dr. Kate Rheaume-Bleue's book is a fascinating read...

Regarding notifications, click the "get notification" button at the bottom of the post you want to follow then go into your "User CP", click the "Profile" tab, select "Options" then scroll down to section on "Notifications" and click in the pull down window to notify by email = "yes".

That should work and I'm sure one of the experts will jump in to correct this if I'm off base...

Regarding a good source for the Super K with advanced K2 complex... I think you've already got it with Amazon UK... They have the lowest price here in the US.

If you want to save on total pill count, you should be able to order higher strength vitamin D3 from Amazon... i.e., Healthy Origins Vitamin D3 Gels 10,000 IU Lulanolin Gels, 360 Count, $20 USD for 6 cents/day or Bio-Tech - D3-50 50,000 IU 100 caps for $20 USD, (take one every 5 days) for an average daily cost of 4 cents.

For reference, the latest clutch of supplements I'm taking shown in my post above works out to 45 cents/day.

Hope this helps.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Feb 16^th, 2014 at 5:34pm by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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blacklab

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1724 - Feb 16^th, 2014 at 8:29pm

thanks for all this info batch.
im still completely pain free and not a single shadow since feb 7th, got some k2 the m7 variety have been taking 300 iu daily. but ordered some of your life extension k2 from iherb and it only took 5 days from the u.s to arrive in Melbourne, bought 2 bottles, so that's 6 months worth. am now going to buy the multi vitamin with the 200 of calcium that you use, which would eliminate me taking calcium on its own, I too have a sufficient calcium diet, I luv my cheeses as well. so this is definitely going to cut down on the amount of pills I take daily, easier when traveling.
I will also look if they have 10,000 vit d3 as im taking 2 5000 vit d3 at the minute.
I herb definitely provide an excellent postage service.
thanks again batch
colin

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