Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Clusterheadaches.com
 
Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegisterEvent CalendarBirthday List  
 





Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Herbs as abortive treatment (Read 998 times)
Stiltz812002
CH.com Newbie
*
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 6
Herbs as abortive treatment
Oct 14th, 2010 at 8:34am
 
I have had very good success, roughly 85% with utilizing 2 herbs in powder form as a abortive treatment. The herbs are Bai Zhi (Angelica Root) and Yan Hu Suo (Corydalis) in the powder form. I use 5grams of Angelica root and 4grams of Corydalis added to water and chug at the first sign of shadow pains. This has been a great alternative treatment to imitrex and being on the go without access to oxygen. Hope other individuals find success trying this homeopathic option. Any questions you can email me at stiltz81@gmail.com

I purchased them at Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
monty
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline




Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida
Re: Herbs as abortive treatment
Reply #1 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:21am
 
1) It's not homeopathic. Taking 9 grams of those herbs is going to have a physiological effect (a chemical effect based on active molecules).  Homeopathy is based on a belief in a 'water memory' effect that cannot be replicated in scientific experiments. 

2) Angelica has long been used for migraines and other headaches. It contains ingredients which act as phytoestrogens (somewhat like kudzu) and coumarins that are mild blood thinners which may have an effect on clusters according to very preliminary research and a few anecdotal reports here (Firebrick from NZ).

3) Very interesting report on Corydalis blocking trigeminal nerve pain in lab animals below. It seems to work on the cannabinoid receptors, though in a different way than cannabis.

Quote:
[Analgesic effect of Corydalis yanhusuo in a rat model of trigeminal neuropathic pain.]

Nan Fang Yi Ke Da Xue Xue Bao. 2010 Sep;30(9):2161-4.
Huang JY, Fang M, Li YJ, Ma YQ, Cai XH.

Department of Stomatology, Zhujiang Hospital, Southern Medical University, Guangzhou 510282, China.E-mail:cxiaohui12@126.com.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the analgesic effect of Corydalis yanhusuo on trigeminal neuropathic pain.in a rat model.

METHOD: Rat model of trigeminal neuralgia pain were established by inducing chronic constriction injury (CCI) of the infraorbital branch of the trigeminal nerve (ION). The effect of Corydalis yanhusuo, a traditional Chinese medicine, in ameliorating the pain was tested. Western blotting was performed to investigate the change of cannabinoid CB1 receptors in the Vc the injury of the infraorbital branch of the trigeminal nerve (ION-CCI). CB1 receptor antagonist AM 251 was applied to observe its effect on the analgesic effect of Yanhusuo.

RESULT: Administration of dl-THP (2 mg/kg) intraperitoneally increased the response threshold and the cut-off threshold to the mechanical stimulation in ION-CCI rat models. ION-CCI induced an upregulation of cannabinoid CB1 receptors within the ipsilateral of Vc. The effect of Yanhusuo was antagonized by the application of AM 251.

CONCLUSION: The analgesic effect of Yanhusuo involves the participation of CB1 receptors, suggesting that Yanhusuo may offer a useful therapeutic approach for trigeminal neuropathic pain.

PMID: 20855279
   

Here's an article that shows that an angelica/corydalis combination is more effective than either herb alone. Angelica increased the levels of corydalis chemicals in the blood.
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

I remember reading about some problems related to one of the active ingredients in corydalis a decade or two ago. As I recall, it was a synthetic, highly concentrated form of one of the active ingredients that was being sold in Asia.  I don't think that there were problems with the herb itself, rather people were taking hefty doses of the pure chemical THP, but I am not 100% sure on that.

Quote:
Are there any side effects or interactions?

Corydalis should not be taken by pregnant or nursing women. There have been several reports in Western journals of THP toxicity, including acute hepatitis. In addition, people taking corydalis can experience vertigo, fatigue, and nausea.

At the time of writing, there were no well-known drug interactions with corydalis.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register


Came across several references to this herb interfering with embryo development and pregnancy - people who are reproductively active should definitely be careful with it.
Back to top
  

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
IP Logged
 
monty
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline




Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida
Re: Herbs as abortive treatment
Reply #2 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 10:22am
 
The tetrahydropalmatine in corydalis is listed as a calcium channel blocker (like verapamil) and a dopamine blocker (like olanzapine). Also evidence that it blocks the serotonin-2 receptors and stimulates the serotonin-1 receptors (partial overlap with kudzu, olanzapine, triptans, clusterbusters, etc). All in all, a very interesting molecule for clusterheads.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Wouldn't want to combine it with verapamil, as it could have additive or synergistic effects on the heart rhythm or speed - it might slow things down too much or induce a funky, dangerous beat. And the groggyness that corydalis can produce suggests it would not be good to mix it with Neurontin (Gabapentin) or  Topomax (Topiramate).
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2010 at 10:26am by monty »  

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
IP Logged
 
wimsey1
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 2457
MA
Gender: male
Re: Herbs as abortive treatment
Reply #3 - Oct 20th, 2010 at 8:05am
 
Monty, you anticipated my questions, thanks for the answers! It does sound as if this has some validity, though, as another alternative should my verapamil/amitriptyline/melatonin regimen break down. Any downsides-assuming one gets off the verapamil-that you can think of? Blessings. lance
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
monty
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline




Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida
Re: Herbs as abortive treatment
Reply #4 - Oct 21st, 2010 at 10:38am
 
Not sure, Lance - I have used Angelica before (both as an herb and a spice). But corydalis is rather new to me - read a few things over the years, but not really that familiar with it. Will do some digging over the next days to find out more.
Back to top
  

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
IP Logged
 
Stiltz812002
CH.com Newbie
*
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 6
Re: Herbs as abortive treatment
Reply #5 - Oct 26th, 2010 at 8:41am
 
Great information Monty! Thank you for the followup.

Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
wimsey1
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 2457
MA
Gender: male
Re: Herbs as abortive treatment
Reply #6 - Oct 27th, 2010 at 12:06pm
 
Thanks, Monty. I look forward to whatever you find. Blessings! lance
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print

DISCLAIMER: All information contained on this web site is for informational purposes only.  It is in no way intended to be used as a replacement for professional medical treatment.   clusterheadaches.com makes no claims as to the scientific/clinical validity of the information on this site OR to that of the information linked to from this site.  All information taken from the internet should be discussed with a medical professional!