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Verapamil question (Read 5786 times)
lib
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #25 - Aug 17th, 2010 at 9:04pm
 
Hi Ginger,
I should have asked about the contraindications and did not. I am still on the 240 Verap so I will hold off on the aspirin until I see the neuro.  Thanks for the reminder. Do you think the memory loss and twitches are due to the Verap or is this something most CHers deal with?  My neuro wants me to get my disability paperwork in order and so far, I don't see a reason other than the memory loss; it REALLY messes me up at work. I figure things will straighten out once I have my pattern and plan in place. Thoughts?
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DennisM1045
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #26 - Aug 17th, 2010 at 9:16pm
 
Hi lib,

I understand your frustration.  Believe me.  But you can't expect your PCP to know much about CH.  It's just beyond they're education.  And he/she is right to be concerned about your Mammogram and heart history. 

Your Neuro is the one to talk to about CH.  It is your PCPs job to make sure nothing else like Breast Cancer slips through the cracks.  After all, as bad as it hurts, CH won't kill you.  Breast Cancer on the other hand...

You just have to accept that Medicine is very compartmentalized these days.  Not every Doctor will take the time to learn about an illness they never plan to treat directly.  Especially when it only affects a few patients they'll see in a lifetime.

What my PCP knows about CH I educated her on.  I'm lucky that I found one with sufficient intellectual curiosity and the interest in her patients to want to learn.  Of course, little of that sticks from one appointment to the next  Grin  But at least she remembers hearing the words before.

If it really bothers you that much, find a new Dr.  If on the other hand you have adequate access to your Neuro then you may find the combination sufficient.

Either way, you have so much to deal with in fighting the beast.  Conserve your energy for that battle.  Let the ignorant stay so.  You'll find yourself eating fewer antacids in the long run.

Good luck...

-Dennis-
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Lettucehead
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #27 - Aug 17th, 2010 at 9:27pm
 
Hey lib!
Just thought I'd chime in here for a moment...

Please, if you've had a stroke (assuming it was ischemic (lack of blood flow due to blocked arteries in the brain) rather than hemorrhagic (burst blood vessel in the brain) you need to be on a blood thinner.  Are you on another blood thinner besides the aspirin?  Please, don't wait until your next appt, but go ahead and give your doc a call about your questions for your peace of mind.  In general, while verapamil can increase the anti-platelet effects of aspirin, it isn't a contraindication to aspirin use - it's more of a caution of something to be aware of....

As for the memory loss, verapamil can make you tired and constipated and CH itself can make you an idiot from lack of sleep and stress, real memory loss from verapamil isn't generally a known common side effect from the medication.  Please, particularly as you've had a stroke, talk to your dr further about these changes and any other medications you're taking (or not taking)...

God bless and many PF days for you!!!!!
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Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear... 'The Terminator' AKA CH
 
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lib
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #28 - Aug 17th, 2010 at 11:17pm
 
Hi All,
Thanks for the replies! Yes, I have had an ischemic stroke and I understand the benefits of aspirin therapy (i work in healthcare) however, I have a strong family history of hemorrhagic strokes and aneurysms as well. I recently lost my dad to a hemorrhagic stoke that could not be controlled because of aspirin therapy. So I'm sure you understand my concerns; adding aspirin to the Verap could be dangerous in my situation. I think I may be better off to wait a bit and wean off the Verap and see what happens with the CH. If I am episodic, I can resume my aspirin therapy if needed after I finish the Verap.; I just need to be careful. As far as the mammogram goes, I know the importance of keeping an eye on things as I have had a tumor removed (I also worked in oncology for a number of years) hence, yearly mammos as opposed to every 3-5 years; age dependent.  I guess my complaint with the PCP was that NOW is not the time to discuss normal healthcare issues and preventive medicine. Today’s visit was supposed to be a follow up from the neuro visit and plans to move forward. I guess I expected too much from her today; it was as if she blew off the dx and it was business as normal.
The CH is very new to me and, as I am finding out, most healthcare providers. We wasted 5 months of compartmentalized medical practices to discover the hypothalamus was to blame for all the symptoms. I guess I was just too dependent on my healthcare providers. It was actually my husband who put it all together after I had my first real cluster attack in May. This is a wonderful support site with so many experienced folks. I have learned more from this board than I ever could have on my own. Thanks so much for the compassion, caring, and advice!!!  lib
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Joni
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #29 - Aug 17th, 2010 at 11:27pm
 
I agree with the others.  Because of your history, talk to your doctors soon.  If you have a Cardiologist, find out what meds you should and shouldn't take for Clusters. 

I do not feel comfortable suggesting for you.  I will tell you that, for me, 10 days after Pred is when it could start hitting me again (I don't do Pred anymore, either).  It took me too long to get off of it.  But...as always, everyone is different.  I'm just throwing it out there.  I have noticed that some people can just stop their preventatives and abortives and some people can't.

I know exactly what you mean about the pressure (and for me-numbness, eye problems, and ear ache all on that side)...not really cluster pain...but you know that's what it is trying to do and it keeps you stressed!!  My last 2 cycles, I had that so badly for several months afterwords, but never a headache.  I couldn't even lie on the affected side of my head.  I just knew something was wrong, but I went to a new Neuro and had an MRI and everything was normal....I was so relieved, though it was hard to believe.  She said that she sees this all the time.  It is fine now!!!

Hope this helps!!!!!!

Joni
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lib
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #30 - Aug 17th, 2010 at 11:47pm
 
Hi Joni,
When all this started back in January I had every cardiology test there is and everything is normal except my heart rate which is about 112 resting. We've concluded that is normal for me and (my opinion) is probably due to the hypothalamus since it controls the chemicals that determine heart rate. I've had this heart rate for as far back as I can remember. The good thing is there is no plaque and the anatomy of the heart is perfect. On my final cardiology visit he told me to drink gatorade and go for a walk.. LOL!!! Now, I like that suggestion!
I understand the ear thing too; for me, I know when I'm going to have an attack because I get this pressure in my ear. After an attack, sometimes a couple of hours later, a tee tiny bit of fluid drains, maybe a drop or so. I told this to the neuro and he just looked at me like I had three heads.  This happens to someone else on this board...can't remember who though. Aahhww, this memory thing is going to drive me insane! LOL
lib
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Joni
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #31 - Aug 18th, 2010 at 12:33am
 
I know what you mean about the ears and my doctors thought I was crazy too...except the Neurologist...she believed me.  I have had so many unusual ailments due to clusters and doctors looking at me like I am making it up...that it has made me reluctant to talk about it.  It makes you feel crazy!

Glad you have a Cardiologist!  I am surprised the Verapamil doesn't slow your heat rate...it does mine, but I am very sensitive to all meds (and life in general), it really sucks except for creativity and emotional intelligence.  I am one of those red headed, natural curly hair, freckled, light skinned, blue eyed freaks of nature. 

Hope you feel better soon!!!

Joni
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #32 - Aug 18th, 2010 at 5:16am
 
lib wrote on Aug 17th, 2010 at 9:04pm:
Hi Ginger,
I should have asked about the contraindications and did not. I am still on the 240 Verap so I will hold off on the aspirin until I see the neuro.  Thanks for the reminder. Do you think the memory loss and twitches are due to the Verap or is this something most CHers deal with?  My neuro wants me to get my disability paperwork in order and so far, I don't see a reason other than the memory loss; it REALLY messes me up at work. I figure things will straighten out once I have my pattern and plan in place. Thoughts?


With me the Memory loss seems temporary and comes with the CH hits, my thinking is never particularly good just before, during and after a ch hit.  Yes the Memory thing and lack of clear thinking are an issue for me at work too.  I have made a few mistakes this way thankfully they were fixable and my immediate supervisor is understanding for the most part. 

The twitches come and go, I once had the eye twitch going on for MONTHS, talk about annoying!  The lip twitches are more sporadic for me and I don't get them often.

At least your neuro is really thinking about you as a whole with having you get your Disability paper work in order, my current neuro isn't so caring.  Yes, I am looking to change and am currently on a waiting list for a new neuro.

I hope this helps! 
PF Wishes!
Ging...
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DennisM1045
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #33 - Aug 18th, 2010 at 6:30am
 
lib wrote on Aug 17th, 2010 at 11:17pm:
It was actually my husband who put it all together after I had my first real cluster attack in May.

Please go find your husband, put your arms around his neck and give him a great big hug and thank him for taking such good care of my cluster-sister.  I like to say that supporters are the rock to which we cling in the storm.

-Dennis-
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So be safe, don't smoke while using O2. Kill the pain and not yourself.
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #34 - Aug 18th, 2010 at 7:25am
 
Lettucehead wrote on Aug 17th, 2010 at 9:27pm:
As for the memory loss, verapamil can make you tired and constipated and CH itself can make you an idiot from lack of sleep and stress, real memory loss from verapamil isn't generally a known common side effect from the medication.


Agreeable.  The info that comes with each script doesn't list memory loss with side effects and for myself not been noticeable using higher doses.  The other effects in conjuction with CH Kirsten mentions have been posted.  We can be differently affected.



My very elderly doctor just retired, I'm procrastinating looking around to replace his sage advice.

I once had what had to be surely a shoulder injury extending through my collar bone, sore for months.  Mentioning it to him, I raised and lowered my arm up and down so he could hear my concern something's wrong with an audible shoulder joint crackling noise each time.  Approaching me and grabbing my forearm and shoulder he gently lowered it saying, "Don't do that with your arm."  Eh, in time it's just fine without a creak.

Don't know.  I can see him looking over notes from previous visits asking how I been.  Twitches.  With a casualness uninterupted witout even looking up, I can see him saying, "Eat a banana."

I take verap, but in the dark answering the mysterious complexity of medicine.
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Joni
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #35 - Aug 18th, 2010 at 11:27am
 
"With me the Memory loss seems temporary and comes with the CH hits, my thinking is never particularly good just before, during and after a ch hit.  Yes the Memory thing and lack of clear thinking are an issue for me"

My sister and I call it cluster brain!
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #36 - Aug 18th, 2010 at 5:34pm
 
Joni wrote on Aug 18th, 2010 at 11:27am:
JustNotRight wrote on Aug 18th, 2010 at 5:16am:
With me the Memory loss seems temporary and comes with the CH hits, my thinking is never particularly good just before, during and after a ch hit.  Yes the Memory thing and lack of clear thinking are an issue for me at work too. 
Ging...


My sister and I call it cluster brain!


That's more polite than the terms I generally use  Smiley
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #37 - Aug 18th, 2010 at 9:20pm
 
You all are too funny! 
Yes Dennis, I did hug my hubby; he is such a wonderful support! He's an engineer so he is used to solving problems. He read all the support info and does a wonderful job just sitting and waiting for instruction. I'm in such a panic during an attack all I can do is bounce around and bark orders....... my poor hubby...what a great guy!

I've decided to try tapering to half the Verap dose and see what happens. I have all my abortives stocked up just in case. I really think the Verap is making me too sleepy to function. I really need to stay employed which means I need to stay awake! Grin I did much better today without the morning dose.

Joni, I understand about the fair skin etc. We call it the Barry (Irish) 2%... if it can only happen in 2% of the cases..it will happen to someone in my family!  LOL
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Re: Verapamil question
Reply #38 - Aug 19th, 2010 at 1:35am
 
lib wrote on Aug 18th, 2010 at 9:20pm:
You all are too funny! 

Joni, I understand about the fair skin etc. We call it the Barry (Irish) 2%... if it can only happen in 2% of the cases..it will happen to someone in my family!  LOL


My Internist calls it Scandinavian Decent....seriously!!!  He says it comes with a host of nuisances that one of my daughters and I battle.  Craaazy, huh?!  I will have to say that I do notice it in other white, reddish, blue eyed people as well.  We even studied this in my classes in college pertaining to children.  Oh, well...everybody has something!  We are a lot of fun and very loving!  Pros and Cons, Yin and Yang...life is a paradox!
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