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When to do prednisone (Read 2739 times)
duck_soup
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When to do prednisone
Jun 4th, 2010 at 2:10pm
 
I've had CH for over 30 years.  At 52, they have started to tail off and I've been lucky enough to go 3 years between cycles the last three times.  This cycle started about 2 weeks ago and is in full bloom.  I have my M tank at home and a bunch of E tanks at the office.  The boss has been briefed.  I have a pile of imitrex from the last time, and an excellent neuro who listens to me and gives me what I need.

I usually only use abortives.  I try to get every one with O2 and use the half imitrex shots to get the ones that break through.  Every once in a great while, I'll have to take the other half of the shot.  I NEVER let these get full blown any more withou aborting them.

I have used prednisone tapers to give myself a break during the cycle and to try to end the cycle toward the end.  If I have to travel, I sometimes go on the prednisone then which gives me a 5 day window when I don't have access to O2.  I hate the way it makes me feel, but it's worth it if it works.

My question is does anyone know the right time to start the prednisone if you're trying to kill the cycle?  I've tried it too early only to have the HAs come back.  My cycles are typically 6-8 weeks, so I'm trying to wait until things get to a steady-state before I start.  But if anyone has any experience with this, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks
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E-Double
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #1 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 2:35pm
 
Prednisone never broke cycle for me.
Its given me a very brief reprieve yet it didn't end it.

I only use oxygen and once in a blue moon imitrex or zyprexa to abort if in public lecturing or something where there is absolutely no way to use oxygen.

I don't know if there is a right time to take a steroid other than using it to get a break or as a transitional med when beginning a preventative treatment

Good luck
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duck_soup
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #2 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 2:43pm
 
Thanks.

It has ended the cycle for me the last two time.  Although it may have been time for it to end anyway.  I try not to travel during a cycle, but some times there's no choice.  I start the prednisone when I'm about to leave and it usually gives me about 5 days before the HAs start up again.  It beats imitrex jabs every 4 hours which is what happens if I don't have my O2.  Lesser of evils.
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Bob Johnson
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #3 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 2:49pm
 
If your cycles are consistently so short the use of long term preventives (Verapamil, etc.) is not in the cards. In that case, I'd use Pred at the first sign of a cycle to give immediate relief. The problem, of course, is that we prefer to hold it to 10-days or so, to avoid LT problems.

The suggestion of Zyprexa as an abortive may be worth considering. Especially, note in the abstract, that for some people it totally stops a cycle.
---

Headache 2001 Sep;41(8):813-6 

Olanzapine as an Abortive Agent for Cluster Headache.

Rozen TD.

Department of Neurology, Jefferson Headache Center/Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, Philadelphia, Pa.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate olanzapine as a cluster headache abortive agent in an open-label trial. BACKGROUND: Cluster headache is the most painful headache syndrome known. There are very few recognized abortive therapies for cluster headache and fewer for patients who have contraindications to vasoconstrictive drugs. METHODS: Olanzapine was given as an abortive agent to five patients with cluster headache in an open-label trial. THE INITIAL OLANZAPINE DOSE WAS 5 MG, AND THE DOSE WAS INCREASED TO 10 MG IF THERE WAS NO PAIN RELIEF. THE DOSAGE WAS DECREASED TO 2.5 MG IF THE 5-MG DOSE WAS EFFECTIVE BUT CAUSED ADVERSE EFFECTS. To be included in the study, each patient had to treat at least two attacks with either an effective dose or the highest tolerated dose. RESULTS: Five patients completed the investigation (four men, one woman; four with chronic cluster, one with episodic cluster). Olanzapine reduced cluster pain by at least 80% in four of five patients, and TWO PATIENTS BECAME HEADACHE-FREE AFTER TAKING THE DRUG. Olanzapine typically alleviated pain within 20 minutes after oral dosing and treatment response was consistent across multiple treated attacks. The only adverse event was sleepiness. CONCLUSIONS: Olanzapine appears to be a good abortive agent for cluster headache. IT ALLEVIATES PAIN QUICKLY AND HAS A CONSISTENT RESPONSE ACROSS MULTIPLE TREATED ATTACKS. IT APPEARS TO WORK IN BOTH EPISODIC AND CHRONIC CLUSTER HEADACHE.

PMID 11576207 PubMed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Olanzapine has a brand name of "Zyprexa" and is a antipsychotic. Don't be put off by this primary usage. Several of the drugs used to treat CH are cross over applications, that is, drugs approved by the FDA for one purpose which are found to be effective with unrelated conditions--BJ.
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Guiseppi
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #4 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 2:51pm
 
I'm like E-Double. There are some people who can break a cycle with steroids, for me they just provide interim relief. So like you, I'll take them if we have a romantic weekend getaway planned and I absolutely don't wanna get hit. Otherwise I just use them at the start while I'm waiting for the lithium to take hold.

Joe
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duck_soup
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #5 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 3:12pm
 
Thanks Bob.  One of the best things about this place is the new news.  I used to go on verapamil, but I got the feeling that it only extended things.  There seems to be a dynamic to my cycle that requires things to get really bad before getting better.  Verapamil never let me get there and the one cycle I used it went on and on.  My neuro thinks (and I agree) that I should just use the abortives.

The interesting thing is that before I split from the first wife, I used to get them once per year.  With the new wife, it's once every three years.  I told her if I trade up again I might be able to get rid of them for good.

She didn't see the humor.
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Guiseppi
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #6 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 3:47pm
 
She didn't see the humor.

Yeah....they're funny that way! Grin

Joe
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"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean.
 
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seaworthy
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #7 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 4:15pm
 
I dont see where you have posted the verapamil dosage you were taking when you were using it?
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Bob Johnson
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #8 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 4:21pm
 
Too many docs are too conservative with the Verap dosing.
---
Headache. 2004 Nov;44(10):1013-8.   

Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients.

Blau JN, Engel HO.


    Background.-Verapamil is currently the best available prophylactic drug for patients experiencing cluster headaches (CHs). Published papers usually state 240 to 480 mg taken in three divided doses give good results, ranging from 50% to 80%; others mention higher doses-720, even 1200 mg per day. In clinical practice we found we needed to adapt dosage to individual's time of attacks, in particular giving higher doses before going to bed to suppress severe nocturnal episodes. A few only required 120 mg daily. We therefore evolved a scheme for steady and progressive drug increase until satisfactory control had been achieved. Objective.-To find the minimum dose of verapamil required to prevent episodic and chronic cluster headaches by supervising each individual and adjusting the dosage accordingly. Methods.-Consecutive patients with episodic or chronic CH (satisfying International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) were started on verapamil 40 mg in the morning, 80 mg early afternoon, and 80 mg before going to bed. Patients kept a diary of all attacks, recording times of onset, duration, and severity. They were advised, verbally and in writing, to add 40 mg verapamil on alternate days, depending on their attack timing: with nocturnal episodes the first increase was the evening dose and next the afternoon one; when attacks occurred on or soon after waking, we advised setting an alarm clock 2 hours before the usual waking time and then taking the medication. Patients were followed-up at weekly intervals until attacks were controlled. They were also reviewed when a cluster period had ended, and advised to continue on the same dose for a further 2 weeks before starting systematic reduction. Chronic cluster patients were reviewed as often as necessary. Results.-Seventy consecutive patients, 52 with episodic CH during cluster periods and 18 with chronic CH, were all treated with verapamil as above. Complete relief from headaches was obtained in 49 (94%) of 52 with episodic, and 10 (55%) of 18 with chronic CH; the majority needed 200 to 480 mg, but 9 in the episodic, and 3 in the chronic group, needed 520 to 960 mg for control. Ten, 2 in the episodic and 8 in the chronic group, with incomplete relief, required additional therapy-lithium, sumatriptan, or sodium valproate. One patient withdrew because verapamil made her too tired, another developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and the drug was withdrawn. Conclusions.-Providing the dosage for each individual is adequate, preventing CH with verapamil is highly effective, taken three (occasionally with higher doses, four) times a day. In the majority (94%) with episodic CH steady dose increase under supervision, totally suppressed attacks. However in the chronic variety only 55% were completely relieved, 69% men, but only 20% women. In both groups, for those with partial attack suppression, additional prophylactic drugs or acute treatment was necessary. (Headache 2004;44:1013-1018).

=======================================
SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL

Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. “This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil,” Dr. Sheftell noted.

“I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache,” he said. “I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.”

Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. “There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience,” Dr. Sheftell commented.

===
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #9 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 4:41pm
 
Guiseppi wrote on Jun 4th, 2010 at 2:51pm:
I'm like E-Double. There are some people who can break a cycle with steroids, for me they just provide interim relief. So like you, I'll take them if we have a romantic weekend getaway planned and I absolutely don't wanna get hit. Otherwise I just use them at the start while I'm waiting for the lithium to take hold.

Joe


Romantic weekend? What did you have in mind?  Cheesy
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #10 - Jun 5th, 2010 at 3:36pm
 
Prednisone, gave me a very nice 4 days this cycle, but the headaches were back before I used up the pills.
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #11 - Jun 5th, 2010 at 4:12pm
 
QnHeartMM wrote on Jun 4th, 2010 at 4:41pm:
Guiseppi wrote on Jun 4th, 2010 at 2:51pm:
I'm like E-Double. There are some people who can break a cycle with steroids, for me they just provide interim relief. So like you, I'll take them if we have a romantic weekend getaway planned and I absolutely don't wanna get hit. Otherwise I just use them at the start while I'm waiting for the lithium to take hold.

Joe


Romantic weekend? What did you have in mind?  Cheesy


Ha you went and started flappin' yer jaws there Joe and now you're on the hook! This is good.  Grin
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CH according to Bejeeber:

Strictly relying on doctors for CH treatment is often a prescription that will keep you in a whole lot of PAIN. Doctors are WAY behind in many respects, and they are usually completely unaware of the benefits of high flow 100% O2.

There are lots of effective treatments documented at this site. Take matters into your own hands, learn as much as you can here and at clusterbusters.com, put it into practice, then tell this CH beast Jeebs said hello right before you bash him so hard with a swift uppercut knockout punch that his stupid horns go flinging right off.
bejeeber bejeeber Enter your address line 1 here  
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Guiseppi
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #12 - Jun 5th, 2010 at 4:56pm
 
Oh way to jump right on my back Jeebs!! Tongue

Joe
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bejeeber
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Re: When to do prednisone
Reply #13 - Jun 5th, 2010 at 6:13pm
 
Sorry. Someone who goes by the moniker "QnHeartMM" slipped me a 5 spot to post that comment.  Cheesy Grin
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CH according to Bejeeber:

Strictly relying on doctors for CH treatment is often a prescription that will keep you in a whole lot of PAIN. Doctors are WAY behind in many respects, and they are usually completely unaware of the benefits of high flow 100% O2.

There are lots of effective treatments documented at this site. Take matters into your own hands, learn as much as you can here and at clusterbusters.com, put it into practice, then tell this CH beast Jeebs said hello right before you bash him so hard with a swift uppercut knockout punch that his stupid horns go flinging right off.
bejeeber bejeeber Enter your address line 1 here  
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