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6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep (Read 2177 times)
kidfam
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6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Apr 28th, 2010 at 3:29pm
 
Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Alabama won't pay for my Imitrex Injections and I am taking over the counter meds Advil Migraine, Extra Strength Tylenol and so many others it would make a junkie envious. I am so scared to go to bed at night as I wake up and have two to three clusters a night.  Topamax is causing my feet to tingle and go numb.  Prednisone makes everything taste awful (talk about a great weight loss drug). I feel like a walking zombie and the shadow is still there in my left temple during the day.  I tremble and shake all the time now and don't know if I will ever be normal again.  This is the longest cycle for me as usually it is just 4 weeks.  Last week CVS tells me the Relpax the ER prescribed will cost me $540 Ouch.  Drug companies don't care about people just the all mighty dollar. Angry  Why couldn't I be normal? Sad  Why didn't O2 work?   Cry  My wife wants me to call the Neuro (Dr. Hamp Greene) again but why he don't ever want to see me and can't even get my scripts correct.  GOD PLEASE MAKE THEM GO AWAY!!!
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bejeeber
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #1 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 3:40pm
 
Well there's a good chance you'll find out here about some good ways to combat this beast that you haven't run across before.

Just a couple initial ideas:

  • O2 - the newer method of using it as outlined at the oxygen info link to the left of this webpage.

  • If you get any more imitrex injections you can make them last 2 to 3 times longer with this imitrex tip: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

  • People have reported that Zyprexa works like imitrex but is much cheaper


  • There's the clusterbusters approach as outlined in this recent Newsweek article:
    Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register


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CH according to Bejeeber:

Strictly relying on doctors for CH treatment is often a prescription that will keep you in a whole lot of PAIN. Doctors are WAY behind in many respects, and they are usually completely unaware of the benefits of high flow 100% O2.

There are lots of effective treatments documented at this site. Take matters into your own hands, learn as much as you can here and at clusterbusters.com, put it into practice, then tell this CH beast Jeebs said hello right before you bash him so hard with a swift uppercut knockout punch that his stupid horns go flinging right off.
bejeeber bejeeber Enter your address line 1 here  
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kidfam
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #2 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 4:02pm
 
Thanks but the O2 doesn't work even at the hospital
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Bob Johnson
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #3 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 4:08pm
 
First, stop all the OTC pain meds which you know doesn't work! But they can cause other problems which compound your problems.
----------
If your local neuro doesn't know how to treat cluster, find a specialist.

LOCATING HEADACHE SPECIALIST

1. Search the OUCH site (button on left) for a list of recommended M.D.s.



2. Yellow Pages phone book: look for "Headache Clinics" in the M.D. section and look under "neurologist" where some docs will list speciality areas of practice.

3.  Call your hospital/medical center. They often have an office to assist in finding a physician. You may have to ask for the social worker/patient advocate.

4. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register On-line screen to find a physician.

5. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register Look for "Physician Finder" search box. They will send a list of M.D.s for your state.I suggest using this source for several reasons: first, we have read several messages from people who, even seeing neurologists, are unhappy with the quality of care and ATTITUDES they have encountered; second, the clinical director of the Jefferson (Philadelphia) Headache Clinic said, in late 1999, that upwards of 40%+ of U.S. doctors have poor training in treating headache and/or hold attitudes about headache ("hysterical female disorder") which block them from sympathetic and effective work with the patient; third, it's necessary to find a doctor who has experience, skill, and a set of attitudes which give hope of success. This is the best method I know of to find such a physician.

6. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register NEW certification program for "Headache Medicine" by the United Council for Neurologic Subspecialties, an independent, non-profit, professional medical organization.
        Since this is a new program, the initial listing is limited and so it should be checked each time you have an interest in locating a headache doctor.
==========

Read the article below, PDF file, for your benefit and take a copy to any doctor you see as a tool to guide discussions of treatment.







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« Last Edit: Apr 28th, 2010 at 6:56pm by Bob Johnson »  
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bejeeber
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #4 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 4:12pm
 
O2 will usually only work if administered at the very onset of an attack, and if it's a strong attack, high flow rates of at least 15 LPM, with a non rebreather mask are often required.

Did you receive O2 right at the onset of an attack at the hospital? As you may have already noticed, doctors and hospitals commonly get things wrong when it comes to CH.

Anyway, lots of other possible ways to drive off this beast.
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« Last Edit: Apr 28th, 2010 at 5:18pm by bejeeber »  

CH according to Bejeeber:

Strictly relying on doctors for CH treatment is often a prescription that will keep you in a whole lot of PAIN. Doctors are WAY behind in many respects, and they are usually completely unaware of the benefits of high flow 100% O2.

There are lots of effective treatments documented at this site. Take matters into your own hands, learn as much as you can here and at clusterbusters.com, put it into practice, then tell this CH beast Jeebs said hello right before you bash him so hard with a swift uppercut knockout punch that his stupid horns go flinging right off.
bejeeber bejeeber Enter your address line 1 here  
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shaggyparasol
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #5 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 4:28pm
 
Hi there Kidfam!  We know what you are going through and you are getting good advice.  I sense despair, so hang in there and get your arsenal ready.  Keep reading and try stuff that many have success with.  Bejeeber gives about the same advice that I would.  Hopefully your cycle is almost over.

Oxygen:  most people here use a ton of oxygen, 15lmp or more with a non-rebreather mask.  Make sure your attempts with oxygen have been this much before discounting it (it may have been I am just trying to be thorough).  I say that because my ER doctor friend wouldn't prescribe that much if someone came in with clusters.  And yes, I am working on it, but they believe your body is already saturated before 15lpm.  Some people need more.

OTC pain stuff you mentioned.  Does it work??  I think you are taking ibuprofen and acetaminophen.  Not many people have luck with it, I didn't.  The excedrin worked for me but it was the caffeine in it that woirked and only if i took it early enough.  I tend to agree with the redbull or coffee caffeine pills route instead.  The OTC stuff can be hard on the stomach and we will take a lot because it doesn't work.  I know caffeine is tough on the stomach too for some.

Anywho, keep at it, you will find something that works.  We have all had the severe pain and the endless experimentation with meds and lifestyles.

As for being normal?  We are.  Having clusters makes us able to endure more pain and ensures that we are clever and crafty in how we manage that pain.  I consider myself much smarter than my family and friends because of this (don't tell them I said that).  Wink a wink for you and a  Angry mean guy face to ward off the CH spirits!

Stick with it!

--Shaggy
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #6 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 4:46pm
 
I think you should call your neuro and get an appointment.  While you are waiting, there are a bunch of things you can try.

1) Put away the tylenol, advil, etc.  These do not work for cluster headeaches and are dangerous if you use more than the dosing instructions on the bottle recommend.  Some of these OTC drugs contain the same ingredients so you can get an overdose if you are using multiple brands on the same day, even at the recommended dosing level.

2) Tell us how you are using the oxygen.  This is really important.  Do you have a non-rebreather mask (the best method) or are you using nasal cannula?  How soon after your first symptom do you start the O2?  What flow rate do you use?  How many minutes do you use the O2?

3) See the tips on this site about using Red Bull or other caffeine/taurine drink to support your O2 usage.  I've never tried it, but it seems to work for a lot of people.

4) Melatonin is a cheap OTC prevention drug that works for some episodics who get mostly nighttime headaches.  See the tips on this board about dosing recommendations.  I'm a regular episodic with nighttime headaches that run April 1 to May 15.  I started at 3 mg then titrated up to 6mg this cycle.  I have not had a nighttime headache since I hit the 6mg mark.  Some people need to titrate to higher doses to get results.  The regimen I've seen listed on this board is to increase by 3mg every 5 days up to 15mg or until you get a result.

Things you should discuss with your neuro:

1) Feet tingling - this could be a symptom of peripheral neuropathy and you need to talk to your neuro asap to find out what is causing it.  I think topomax is prescribed off label to PREVENT peripheral neuropathy.  I'm doing chemo right now and am taking a similar drug (Neurontin) to treat my peripheral neuropathy.  Ask your neuro to explain what symptoms he is trying to treat with the Topomax.

2) Trembling and shaking - this could be a side effect of Lithium, but you don't list that med.  You need to talk with your neuro to find out why you are having this side effect.

3) If your preventatives are not working, talk to your neuro about other choices.  For example, Verapamil is a blood pressure lowering drug with relatively few side effects that works for many people with CH.  You can search this board for other preventative choices.

4) If you're not happy with your neuro, start looking for a new one (but still make an appointment with your current one - you can always break it if you get another neuro in the meantime).  There are a lot out there, and they differ tremendously in their office manner, knowledge of CH, and willingness to work with a patient.

Hope this helps,
Laurie
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OneEyeBlind
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #7 - Apr 28th, 2010 at 7:52pm
 
You've gotten some great advice so far.  I'm just going to repeat some of it. 

The O2 didn't work for me really well last cycle.  I did the 15 lpm with the non-rebreather mask,  but it only worked on the smaller headaches.  This cycle, I have a regulartor that goes to 25lpm, and with that ...... the headaches are gone in about 7 - 10 minutes.  I have had to use Imitrex twice since starting the O2 for the kip 10's ... but that's nothing compared to how much I would have used. 

Relpax worked great for me to get a break.  I took one before bedtime, and got about 5 hours sleep before the beast came knocking.  That's a heck of a lot better than the beast knocking an hour after you fall asleep.  It keeps you sane. 

Verapamil, once it kicked in (I was on it about 2 weeks before I noticed a difference) was a Godsend.  I started at 280 mg, but had to cut the dose in half at about day 10, as my BP bottomed out.  It still worked at half dosage.

Had I not gotten my cycle under control, I would have tried the prednisone taper and anything else this sight suggests.  Just remember, with the o2, higher flow rates are essential.  If you can't get a regulator that goes above 15 lpm, at least make sure you are using the re-breather mask and have taped up the air vents ..... read the 02 link.  It saved me from bashing my head against the wall more than once. 

Good luck, and hang in there.  This too shall pass.
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #8 - May 13th, 2010 at 9:11am
 
Will BC/BS pay for generic imitrex tablets, or nasal spray, or sublinguals like Maxalt?  Maybe they're scared of the price of the brand-name drug, but the generic works just fine (at least for me) -- sometimes they'll pay for tabs if they won't pay for injections.  I know the tabs take longer to work, but they do work (again, at least for me), and maybe your insurer will pay for them. 
Also, maybe your local Wal-Mart or Target carries them?  If so, they'll be much cheaper than your local Walgreens, CVS, or whatever.
I've been there with the no-sleep thing -- 20 days without more than two hours at a time.  Doc likened it to PTSD,  which I think is true.  You need to get to a neuro who knows this beast and will give you the right meds that you can afford.
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Skyhawk5
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #9 - May 13th, 2010 at 7:06pm
 
It's the Topamax making things taste funny not the Prednisone. When you got Oxygen at the Hospital it was way past the time you needed it, and I doubt you were given what we need to abort.

You aren't the 1st person to say O2 doesn't work, only to find at some later date, when using it properly it does indeed work. The only thing to lose is pain...

Don
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Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the Beast , I  have O2 so I fear him not.
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #10 - May 13th, 2010 at 7:35pm
 
Did they say why they won't pay for it?
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #11 - May 14th, 2010 at 9:26pm
 
Erin,

Hello, I had some of the same types of problems with meds. Go to Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register and read.

Coach Bill
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #12 - May 15th, 2010 at 1:32am
 
(((Hugs)))

It's hard we know, but we all know what you're going through.  Neither o2 or imi works for me.  You really should stop with the over the counter stuff, you could be seriously damaging your liver, especially when combining them with so many other medications.

Thank God Imitrex works for you.  Some of us are not so lucky.  A lot of neuros hand out free samples like candy.  Call yours, explain your insurance isn't paying and ask for 1) a letter of medical necessity for your insurance company and 2) free samples to use until this gets resolved.  Then use the tips recommended to stretch one dose into multiple doses.

Prednisone could be what's making you jittery.  Sometimes for how little good it does you it's better to just go off of it--it has a tendency to make things harder to handle, at least for me, and it also seemed to make between hit shadows worse AND made it harder to sleep when I wasn't having a hit, which is a disaster.

The food issues and the tingling in hands and feet are very common side effects with Topamax.  When I went on it the tingling was so bad I had trouble walking sometimes and also saw bursts of color around every source of light. Side effects decrease a bit with time, so if you're still ramping up your dose, slow down the increase a bit and give your body a chance to catch up.  If you're not ramping up your dose you may want to ask your neuro about that too.

Also, the Topamax should make you sleep through the night if it's at the correct dose.  Ignore instructions to take it in two doses (some in morning some at night) and take it ALL at night.  It has a very long half life so this shouldn't have a negative effect on you.  Instead it should knock you out into peaceful sleep for at least a few hours.  Dosing this way also reduces some of that daytime brain fog, or at least it did for me.

One other thing that really seemed to help me:  Try to stick with a schedule.  Try to go to bed at exactly the same time every night, try to get enough sleep even though you're afraid of it, this really does help me a great deal.  When you're not SO overtired it's easier to not be in such distress the rest of the time.
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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #13 - May 15th, 2010 at 9:34am
 
I've had ECH for over 25 yrs. took 15 years to finally get a diagnosis. Been down the same
road with all the meds, otc etc. Occipital nerve block with Robaxin (Methocarbomol) & Alprazaloam
meds work for me. The shots have worked each time I've had ECH cycles. I am still PF since
my 2nd. shot the last of April. I've never been to a neuro, my doctor told me it would be a waste of
my time and money. Chiropractors made them worse and more frequent. Was diagnosed by my family doctor and referred to a Vascular surgeon.
I posted some info on the med. message board under occipital nerve block and also have some entries
on the guest page with information about the way I treat my CH until I get in to see the doc.
Alcohol, Nicotine, and alot of Caffeine were all triggers for my CH, quit it all and now have got my CH where I can control them better when they decide to come around rather than the pain controlling me.
Was pf for 29 months before this last go around which only lasted about 2-2 1/2 weeks. Years ago when I first started having them I would have anywhere from 4-8 ha each day for about 2 months at a pain level of about 7-9. Now the pain is never over 3-4 and never more than 1hr. usually 10-20 min. Let me know if you
have any questions will give you all the info. that has worked for me.
GOOD LUCK & GOD BLESS


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Re: 6 Weeks of Hell and No Sleep
Reply #14 - May 17th, 2010 at 5:29am
 
wow, my heart goes out to u...i am envious of ppl who are not afraid to fall asleep...how many mg of topamax are u on...im on 100mg...idk if i can tell a difference, but i have the shaking too...my neuro prescribed me a beta blocker called propanolol(spelling may not be right) but that has helped with my shakes along with klonopin 2mg 3x a day...im in school to be a beauty stylist...would u come to get ur hair cut from shakes mCgee here...prob not! i used to be so confident to cut hair now i have zero...i am new to this site but sooo happy that i found it!
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