JeffB wrote on Sep 18^th, 2009 at 9:27pm:


Jeff, if you bother to read the thread you will see that I have respectfully (from the position of someone who would support a social healthcare scheme) asked questions, made counter arguments and hopefully stimulated people to think beyond the (often emotional, not factual) rhetoric of politicians.

At the end of the day, regardless of what politicians of any affiliation say, there is STILL a significant number of Americans, hardworking, honest or otherwise, who cannot afford the healthcare that they need. Where do I arrive  at this conclusion? On these very pages.

An emotional rise is not what I seek, but I guess it is an inevitable consequence of asking questions to which there can be many 'answers' depending on political affiliation, personal circumstances, and what people choose to see as right and wrong.

Some people in this discussion have educated me by filling in gaps in my knowledge and showing me what I believe to be valid counter arguments. Others have just become angry and have missed the opportunity to enlighten me further.

Why do I care? Two reasons:
1. I have empathy for CH sufferers and would like to see a situation where all sufferers have access to the treatment they NEED as opposed to the treatment they can only afford.
2. America's internal and external politics do resonate across the world. When America sneezes, we all catch a cold - and lately, the US has been sneezing rather a lot.

Bob P wrote on Sep 19^th, 2009 at 7:24am:



Your argument assumes that no one will make the effort to clearly demonstrate the beneficial effects of O2 for CH treatment. Governments need educating too and as patients, we have a duty to ourselves to educate our governments via our doctors, lobbying etc.  This website alone is perhaps the singlemost valuable resource worldwide that CH sufferers have in changing government thinking.

My own experience with CH has been radically improved since introducing this wonderful site to my doctor, who in turn introduced it to several other doctors in my area. Their understanding of the condition grew and their allocation of budget for various treatments was better prioritised; my use of O2 that was originally considered to be a prohibitive luxury by one doctor is now seen as a basic necessity.  You could have the same situation in the US.

JustNotRight wrote on Sep 19^th, 2009 at 12:09pm:

Buzz I think you held your corner with true elegance and style with this debate.

I have read everyones posts and still do not understand.
I see that there is so much distrust of every one and  such a fear of lose of liberty  that  all  I see is "it is mine and I am not sharing it with anyone" and  "you can't make me because of The Constitution" attitude

I think although we speak the same words,  there is a vast differance in their meaning  , our cultures are vastley different in so many ways that it is a bit of a shock when it becomes so obvious.

I am also not attacking you or the USA, your policies are for your Goverment and your Countrymen, but sometimes they make no sense to others looking in.

But the joy is that I can say that as you can air your views because both Countries have the freedom to do so.

I do not agree with your views on some things but remember I am a friend, so be gentle with me

Buzz wrote on Sep 17^th, 2009 at 5:47pm:


Buzz without doubt, that is one of the most intelligent and elegant pieces of writing I have witnessed on this board since I've joined....

Lefty..!

Quote:


Ditto..!

Lefty..!

Everyone in USA has access to health care!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Ginger.

You've saved me some valuable with your recent response.

Steve G

Thank you all so much for your responses.

What I have surmised from this discussion is that Americans have several widely divergent views of what is "Freedom" or "Liberty" - to the extent that one man's freedom is another's oppression; as a low-paid labourer working hard each day in the fields or factories, I would feel 'oppressed' by the view that I shouldn't be entitled to a state-run social healthcare scheme.

My other observation is that America seems no longer to be a democracy: There is a lot of mistrust of "the government".  It is as though "the Government" is separated from the process of electing your representatives; that your elected representatives don't/cannot change the way the government works. As though they cannot make the government more trustworthy, more reliable.

I can see what has happened: Big business has huge influence over both lawmaking and day-to-day government.  Big business has usurped the American peoples' right to shape and influence the way the government is run. Yes, the very "liberties" that nurture and encourage enterprise, that fuel the American Dream have also created the monster that actually deprives Americans of their full democratic rights, and the government they want. You need to regain control!!!

To haul the above back into the context of the social healthcare debate, I think that America needs a system that will, across all states, provide a certain level of guaranteed healthcare to every single citizen regardless of their income or position in society. A level of healthcare that provides reassurance to all families that sickness is not going to bankrupt them. A level of healthcare that gets sick people better and back to work as quickly as possible.

Does this take away choice? No way. People can still choose to contribute to private health insurance schemes if they wish, affording them even better treatment. And there would be a benefit to those people too: Their health insurance providers would have to compete against the universal healthcare scheme in terms of the value they offer their clients. Gone would be the rafts of unnecessary tests, the unnecessary appointments at connected 'specialists' etc.  The cost of healthcare would drop. Quite a lot, I think.

Getting acceptance of such a scheme is never going to be easy. There are too many vested interests held by people and organisations who feel they would lose something as a result (their unfair commercial advantage???). If you look at a universal Healthcare scheme as part of the fibre, the fabric of America, just like your highways where all citizens have an entitlement to use, then it becomes a vision worth holding on to.

Is Universal Healthcare a communist plot?  No. Think again of America's great road system, paid for through taxes, owned by the people: it could be argued that such a system is pure socialism.  I bet no one would want all the roads to be privatised and made into toll roads!!

I concur with Kevin!

Cathi

Nice job Kevin & Buzz.

There's a lot of cash to be made by encouraging things like Glenn Beck & fellow travellers. The more they do to encourage people to act out fear of "guvment" on TV, the better for far right revenue.

FOX has a powerful financial interest in fostering, promoting, and screeching about bizarre paranoid conspiracy theories. They make most of their money on misinformation. It's easy too and easy find acolytes. It's a take on super market tabloids which have no trouble finding patrons.

"Follow the money" though doesn't explain everything. Nope. It only explains 90% of everything. In terms of Fox and the Tea-Baggers, 2% of the rest is racism, and the other 8% is comedy.

Buzz has a good point at the end of his post. If we're lucky at the least we will be able to treat health care like a public service rather than for a profit only system.

Charlie

Simple for me:

Universal single-payer.....not gonna happen this time.

That health care doesn't depend on money.

Realistically:

The public option (unlikely now) and letting Medicare negotiate drug purchases. Shame on us for letting such a thing come to pass in the first place.

Not letting drug companies tie their support by forcing us to buy only their expensive non-generic drugs.

Make health care like a public service sounds good to me.

Do something about tort reform so long as it makes sense and not just satisfy anti-guvment types.

Charlie

Can someone from the UK tell me more about the following article?  Is this *standard* procedure?

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or