BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Sep 17th, 2009 at 4:09pm:Buzz wrote on Sep 17th, 2009 at 3:16pm:Brew wrote on Sep 17th, 2009 at 2:45pm:Charlie wrote on Sep 17th, 2009 at 2:38pm: There has to be a reason why the other western countries in the world decided to adopt some kind of health care.
Because the people of those countries allowed their governments to get away with another power grab. Many people today have no clue what their personal liberty means, so they sacrifice it for so-called security all the time.
The yearning to be truly free burns in the hearts of very few anymore.
Good heavens! Having access to healthcare is a sacrifice of my liberty? Being able to order O2 to alleviate a condition that restricts my life is a sacrifice of my liberty?
...or on the other side of the coin, having no way of paying for medication whilst others can IS liberty?
a democracy of Free Americans must make their government responsible for its their wellbeing. The alternative is to allow private enterprise (the wealthy few) to make decisions outside of your control. Not much liberty there!
It's astonishing how much you don't 'get it'. Like Brew said, it's difficult to discuss liberty when you are coming from the perspective that governmental control IS liberty while private enterprise is NOT liberty.
Us Americans have access to whatever we want. We have access to medical service. We can call an O2 supplier and purchase oxygen. You seem to think we are unable to do that.....but yes, when we receive service, we are asked to pay for it.
I went out to dinner last night and after I was finished, the waiter asked me to pay for it. Does this mean my personal freedom has been comprimised?
Quote: ...or on the other side of the coin, having no way of paying for medication whilst others can IS liberty?
Yes!! Thats the definition of liberty! I'm glad you are beginning to understand. You are free to do as you wish. You reap what you sow.
I work hard for what I have. My neighbor sleeps til noon and then parties til midnight.
We are both enjoying our personal freedom. The fact that I can pay for medical service and he is unable to pay IS, IN FACT,
LIBERTY.
Brian,
Hate to rain on your parade, but your reasoning is faulty (italicized and in blue). That's a pretty damned big brush your using to paint those who can't afford healt coverage (and I am in NO way supporting a govt. controlled health plan). What about those people who work hard, pay their bills, buy a few groceries and don't have extra money for insurance? There are actually more people who fall between the cracks than those you mention.
No health care for the poor? Balderdash. My best friend developed non-Hodgkins lymphoma. She had no insurance of any kind. She did not pay one penny for any of her hospital stays, treatments or medication, nor was her family responsible for any debts incurred before her death (she went through experimental treatment as a last resort). We looked at what her treatment cost and it was well over half a million dollars.
I think Marc pretty much hit the proerbial nail on the head.
"Virtually all Americans want lower cost, high quality health care with choices.
That isn't being debated.
A well thought out plan that would actually reduce overall total costs would be overwhelmingly accepted.
Spreading the same total cost over more people via higher taxes is not the same as actually reducing overall cost.
I have seen nothing in the current set of proposals that would actually reduce overall health care costs.
I have yet to see a Government program of any kind, run efficiently. They are ALL going broke at an alarming rate.
The GAO agrees with me."
The broken toys need to be fixed before the government tells me that I have to buy new ones.
One thing I will say with regards to tort/liability, the US is a sue happy population, where it's relatively rare in the UK. Also, primary care is BIG in the UK, where it's not so big here (there is a tremendous shortage of PCP in the US).
And for those of you who seem to think that there are no socialized health programs that are paid for by me, et al, think again, Medicaid, Medicare, state run children's programs (We have LaChip for the in between earners), public health units, university hospitals that provide free health care and I'm sure there are more that I'm just not thinking of right now.