Click this link to read a post I like on the clusterheadaches.com message board...

Lobster

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Posts: 2417
Gender: male

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #200 - Sep 26^th, 2009 at 7:46pm

Loopy wrote on Sep 26^th, 2009 at 6:40pm:

Tort reform is not just about the lawsuits, it's about changing the behavior of virtually mandated waste. The cost of medical care is astronomical in part because a lot of tests are run without any statistical medical justification simply because *if* a lawsuit were to come up later, the bases were covered.

Well said.

Back to top

Rock beats Scissors.

IP Logged

Click Here to visit the CH.com Facebook page!

Charlie

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Happy to be here

Posts: 18971
Jamestown, NY
Gender: male

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #201 - Sep 26^th, 2009 at 9:21pm

Quote:

With this logic, all of the oil companies should be open for litigation for knowingly selling a highly flammable (explosive) product. Same with O2 suppliers - they know darn well that their product can kill people. Damn, they are evil!

Don't even start me on people who actually dare to sell pizza fresh from the oven! Melted cheese at 400 degrees makes hot coffee look like child's play.

This concept is the very basis of our fundamental disagreement. I strongly believe in personal responsibility. Others want to be taken care of and any accident is because of evil corporations. If you burn yourself with hot coffee at home, do you sue your wife?

I know that it seems outlandish to some, but fresh hot coffee is actually hot enough to burn you. Wow, what a concept - someone needs to pay!

The divide continues to grow because of very fundamental differences in opinions of personal responsibility.

Spin it with other extreme examples, or any other way you want - that is the reality today: I had an accident, so SOMEONE must pay!

Marc

Believe it or not, Marc, I agree with you. No divide at all Shocked

Quote:

I might think the holding temp has been lowered and there is a sturdier cup design now and certainly the lid, too, which can also keep it warm longer. It would be a harder case to press than when the older design and temp was used.

In the last couple years they've gone to a more quality(?) regular coffee to compete in the market better (probably with Tim Hortons). Competition made simply selling crappy coffee very hot for more aroma wasn't wise for more than one reason.

Yeah Kev. McDonalds is selling decent senior coffee here. I no longer have to remind them.... It's hard to compete with Hortons but they are.... I'm not about to drink the hot brown water that Burger King sells as coffee.

I have an idea though. McDonalds puts sugar on their healthy salads. Maybe we could sue..... Roll Eyes

Charlie

Back to top

There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill

IP Logged

Callico

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Author of "Stranded at
Romson's Lodge

Posts: 4916
Aurora IL
Gender: male

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #202 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 1:28am

[quote author=2D2E2E3138410 li

Tort reform is not just about the lawsuits, it's about changing the behavior of virtually mandated waste. The cost of medical care is astronomical in part because a lot of tests are run without any statistical medical justification simply because *if* a lawsuit were to come up later, the bases were covered.

It is interesting how all of these topics can be viewed so completely differently depending on your political leanings.
[/quote]

Loopy,you got it right! I was in the ER the last two weekends for weakness in my right arm, and then the arm going totally limp for about 6 hours. After CT scans, xrays, blood tests, etc they ordered two MRI's an MRA, and an MRA with contrast. The Dr said he didn't believe they would show anything because all of the other signs were negative, "But we have to do it anyway." Today I got the bill for $11,800, and that didn't include the second MRI that I had done yesterday. They weren't done for my benefit, but for CYA. We NEED tort reform now.

Jerry
Edit to add: The quotation above is from Loopy. Somehow I goofed when trying to get the quote. Sorry.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 27^th, 2009 at 1:29am by Callico »

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of dung by the clean end." Texas A&M Student (unknown)

IP Logged

MJ

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Posts: 1205
x1||USA|usa|299|85|MN
Gender: male

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #203 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 3:28am

Tort accounts for less than 1% of medical costs nationwide.
Though an OBGYN in florida may pay 200,000 a year for liability, in Minnesota they pay around 20,000 a year. Less than I pay in liability for my company.

A small hospital in my area has no less than five MRI and other scanning centers within a mile of the hospital. The hospital itself has 2 nice new machines as well.
The five other MRI facilities are owned by small consortiums of doctor groups who practice through the hospital where they can feed the patient needs to their own facilities.
At last count the hospital only had about 200 beds.

Back to top

MJ

IP Logged

Kevin_M

CH.com Sponsor

Offline

withered branches grow
green again.

Posts: 8754
Michigan, USA
Gender: male

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #204 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 7:42am

Marc wrote on Sep 26^th, 2009 at 7:05pm:

Melted cheese at 400 degrees makes hot coffee look like child's play.

Yes, Mark, and the reason caution with pies was brought up, which are cooked for 12 minutes at a preheated 420 degrees. Sticky filling, like cheese fresh from the oven can be menacing. A system is explicit for a 10 minute cool-down before going to a 165-180 holding temperature, but it can happen that if they run out and you get one fresh from the oven in a rush followed by immediate consumption, please be aware.
For a place fairly dependent upon being child-friendly, any toys in a Happy Meal should have the confidence of no danger with small, swallowable parts, recalls have happened in the past. People get relaxed with no fear concerning certain reputations marketed and some corporate responsibility is important.

As for something like an oil spill, if a local water supply was ruined in a farming or fishing community, there would be some hardship of livelihood dismantling. If in one's backyard so to say, compensation might be justified, although required to be legally sought. Never know how long and hard that may be while handling the meantime.

Loopy wrote on Sep 26^th, 2009 at 6:40pm:

It is interesting how all of these topics can be viewed so completely differently depending on your political leanings.

I might find it the least interesting to understand this comprehended.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 27^th, 2009 at 8:43am by Kevin_M »

IP Logged

deltadarlin

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 3823
Downsville LA
Gender: female

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #205 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 10:20am

Tort reform needs to be applied across the board, not just to the medical profession (most insurers offer more than one type of insurance). I've seen countless car accidents where no one was really hurt, yet, by the time all is said and done, the *victim* is given a little something for nothing! I watched an accident where a small pickup accidentally bumped into the back of a full sized city bus. Now, common sense tells you that if there was no damage to either vehicle, then the *impact* could not have been that much. However, I watched them take people off that bus on stretchers with cervical collars and on back boards.

I worked as a rehab specialist with Workman's comp for five years. I not only monitered the medical end, I also tried to get people back to work. You would be amazed at the people who *can't* work, but can go out and ride their four wheelers and climb up and down ladders while hanging their Christmas tree lights.

We need to get away from the *you owe me* principal.

Back to top

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

IP Logged

Marc Ex Member Gender:	Re: American Healthcare debate... Reply #206 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 10:31am deltadarlin wrote on Sep 27^th, 2009 at 10:20am: ......................... We need to get away from the you owe me principal. Yep
Back to top	IP Logged

Cathi_Pierce

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 1191
x0|Oregon City|USA||0|0|OR,Oregon
Gender: female

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #207 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 12:48pm

FINALLY! This has come full-circle!
YES, there are problems with Politicians!
YES, the insurers charge too much!
YES, we are in a litigious society!
YES, people need to take accountability for all of these things!
WHICH people, you ask?? US! WE! Us'ns!

(sheesh, I'm wearing out my soapbox)

Again, it's just my opinion, but, if you get into your brand-new safety assisted vehicle and proceed to drive like a maniac,subsequently killing yourself and your dog, should the auto company be sued for failing to warn you of that possibility....or should you BE ACCOUNTABLE (posthumously)?

And, where does this all lead to in Insurance? Whatever insurance, my E&O, your auto insurance, everyone's medical coverage? A LOT of it points to our legal system, attorneys who can spin a story to get someone off, or get them a check. The question is, how do consumers send the message that we don't want those greedy hands in our deep pockets?
Cathi-who really hates politics

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 27^th, 2009 at 12:49pm by Cathi_Pierce »

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

IP Logged

Callico

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Author of "Stranded at
Romson's Lodge

Posts: 4916
Aurora IL
Gender: male

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #208 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 3:48pm

MJ wrote on Sep 27^th, 2009 at 3:28am:

Tort accounts for less than 1% of medical costs nationwide.
Though an OBGYN in florida may pay 200,000 a year for liability, in Minnesota they pay around 20,000 a year. Less than I pay in liability for my company.

A small hospital in my area has no less than five MRI and other scanning centers within a mile of the hospital. The hospital itself has 2 nice new machines as well.
The five other MRI facilities are owned by small consortiums of doctor groups who practice through the hospital where they can feed the patient needs to their own facilities.
At last count the hospital only had about 200 beds.

My point with my post just prior to this one is that so much of the medical treatment is because of the fear of tort. If my Drs were not afraid of possibly being sued I would not have had to undergo $11,800 worth of DUPLICATE tests. (That does not count the Radiologist.) We already knew there was no stroke. We also knew it was not my heart, but I still underwent another chest X-ray and EKG, just to be sure they wouldn't be sued if "something happened". I can promise you that if I have a recurrence of hemiparesis I will not go back to the ER no matter what my Dr (or my wife) wants me to do. There is a place for testing, but it needs to be to determine what a problem is and not to determine that a shyster lawyer isn't waiting to try to get into the Drs pocket just because some minute possibility was overlooked, whether it was the issue or not.

Jerry

Back to top

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of dung by the clean end." Texas A&M Student (unknown)

IP Logged

Click Here to visit the CH.com Facebook page!

Charlie

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Happy to be here

Posts: 18971
Jamestown, NY
Gender: male

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #209 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 9:04pm

Right on the money, Jerry. Until I got serious about dealing with these expensive and iffy medical wizards, I used to put up with days of redundant or useless testing too. I'm old now and I argue all the time with them. For instance, I've been an epileptic for 50 years and I know what's necessary and what is BS when dealing with it. In a way, it resembles CH in that the patient learns a lot about treating the disease and it's hard to surprise us. My experience with good and bad neurologists made the diagnosis and handling of CH much less scary. Because of it, I was able to avoid "exploratory" surgery relating to CH. I guess I was "lucky."

Charlie

Back to top

There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill

IP Logged

Charlie

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Happy to be here

Posts: 18971
Jamestown, NY
Gender: male

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #210 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 9:16pm

Quote:

As for something like an oil spill, if a local water supply was ruined in a farming or fishing community, there would be some hardship of livelihood dismantling. If in one's backyard so to say, compensation might be justified, although required to be legally sought. Never know how long and hard that may be while handling the meantime.

Yup. Another kettle of fish.

When a doctor cuts off the wrong arm or leg, the patient should be able to skin the quack alive. These are different and what the law was meant to cover. Without the possibility of some action, doctors might not be so concerned about safety....same for manufacturers.

I don't see suits against McDonalds as being something to be proud of though.

Charlie

Back to top

There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill

IP Logged

Melissa CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give up! Posts: 7238 Central WI, USA Gender:	Re: American Healthcare debate... Reply #211 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 9:32pm Commercial Break!! Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion...
Back to top	« Last Edit: Sep 27^th, 2009 at 9:34pm by Melissa » Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel IP Logged

Kevin_M CH.com Sponsor Offline withered branches grow green again. Posts: 8754 Michigan, USA Gender:	Re: American Healthcare debate... Reply #212 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 3:20pm That is so cute, Melly. The diaper held on well!
Back to top	IP Logged

Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: American Healthcare debate... Reply #213 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 3:35pm Kevin_M wrote on Sep 28^th, 2009 at 3:20pm: The diaper held on well! That's a no-load diaper. Just wait until it gains some girth.
Back to top	"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand IP Logged

Kevin_M CH.com Sponsor Offline withered branches grow green again. Posts: 8754 Michigan, USA Gender:	Re: American Healthcare debate... Reply #214 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 4:23pm Brew wrote on Sep 28^th, 2009 at 3:35pm: That's a no-load diaper. Just wait until it gains some girth. Saggin' bag? Looks like the kid could shake the load on down a leg.
Back to top	IP Logged

Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: American Healthcare debate... Reply #215 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 4:28pm Kevin_M wrote on Sep 28^th, 2009 at 4:23pm: Brew wrote on Sep 28^th, 2009 at 3:35pm: That's a no-load diaper. Just wait until it gains some girth. Saggin' bag? Looks like the kid could shake the load on down a leg. Any port in a storm.
Back to top	"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand IP Logged

Kevin_M CH.com Sponsor Offline withered branches grow green again. Posts: 8754 Michigan, USA Gender:	Re: American Healthcare debate... Reply #216 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 4:37pm
Back to top	IP Logged

Click Here to visit the CH.com Facebook page!

JustNotRight CH.com Sponsor Offline CH version 15.0.8 member since 2005 aka GingerS224 Posts: 1300 Wilkes-Barre, Pa (USA) Gender:	Re: American Healthcare debate... Reply #217 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 5:06pm Ain't Kids GRAND!!! Wee ones got some moves even that young!
Back to top	Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind. M.K. Gandhi If you are going through hell...Just keep going IP Logged

Charlie CH.com Alumnus Offline Happy to be here Posts: 18971 Jamestown, NY Gender:	Re: American Healthcare debate... Reply #218 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 6:02pm Cute Mel! I must download video for my constipated friends. Charlie
Back to top	There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill IP Logged

Buzz

CH.com Veteran

Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 146
x0|London|United_Kingdom||0|0|
Gender: male

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #219 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 6:06pm

JustNotRight wrote on Sep 28^th, 2009 at 5:06pm:

Ain't Kids GRAND!!! Wee ones got some moves even that young! Grin

I see things simply: Judges are the people who hold tort reform in the palm of their hands. It is they who can make a judgement about what is justice and what is "swapping justice for cash." I suggest that instead of the politicians getting stuck in, the judges start taking a moral stance and concentrate on justice rather than cash.

Clearly, judging by the last two pages (dancing baby aside Roll Eyes

) it seems that the cost of medical delivery is not in the delivery of medicine but in the forking out extortionate amounts of cash to insurers who have to pay out gazillions in lawsuits; its not justice, its cashing in.

Back to top

The cure is out there somewhere...

IP Logged

Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: American Healthcare debate... Reply #220 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 8:02pm Commercial break over.
Back to top	"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand IP Logged

JustNotRight CH.com Sponsor Offline CH version 15.0.8 member since 2005 aka GingerS224 Posts: 1300 Wilkes-Barre, Pa (USA) Gender:	Re: American Healthcare debate... Reply #221 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 8:58pm I usually don't watch commercials, may have to change my opinion on them. Was nice while it lasted. And Now Back to your regular scheduled programing...
Back to top	Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind. M.K. Gandhi If you are going through hell...Just keep going IP Logged

Buzz

CH.com Veteran

Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 146
x0|London|United_Kingdom||0|0|
Gender: male

Re: American Healthcare debate...
Reply #222 - Sep 29^th, 2009 at 3:38am

JustNotRight wrote on Sep 28^th, 2009 at 8:58pm:

I usually don't watch commercials, may have to change my opinion on them. Was nice while it lasted.

And Now Back to your regular scheduled programing...

I'm sorry, I'm just so used to Britain's Kommunist State Broadkaster, the BBC: No Kommercials. No interruptions.

Back to top

The cure is out there somewhere...

IP Logged

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
	Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!