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  New CH.com Forum › Cluster Headache Help and Support › Medications,  Treatments,  Therapies › Zyprexa!
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Zyprexa! (Read 5427 times)
Joni
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Zyprexa!
Aug 26th, 2009 at 10:30pm  
I finally went to my doctor yesterday because I was going down quickly in the last few days having 4 clusters a day and one that lasted 3 hours which is rare for me.  I am very sensitive to all medications so my doctor said he was at a loss of what to do after we discussed some options.  I copied and took info from this site and handed it to him and as I told him I didn't expect him to read it then, he noticed the small trial on Zyprexa.  He said he liked the idea and gave me samples of 5mg and 2.5 mg pills.  I came home and called my daughter (In her last year of Pharmacy School) and she said...do not take it, let me read about it first.  When she called back, she said she did find it indicated for clusters and that I only take it at the onset of one (as opposed to every day).  I got my chance at 8:45 last night!  I took the 2.5mg and by 9:00, I felt as if the inside of my head was shrinking and pressure was releasing...the viola, it was gone.  I mean gone!!!  I felt extremely mellow, somewhat dizzy, sleepy, with an airly feeling in the top of my head.  All shadows gone even now.  I am writing this 24 hours later and am still somewhat mellow and a little dizzy.  I slpet all night and had a 6 hour nap today which is very unusual for me (I was up for most of the 3 nights prior to this).  As my sister and I sad on the phone today, the next few days will be interesting because we know all too well to wait before we are thrilled with a new technique.  The only down side so far, for me, is the side effect lasting 24 hours.  Some people might not mind that at all, but I am very active and don't like to be slowed down.  My family thinks it was good for me, though.  Zyprexa is used to treat psychosis so we have had fun with that.  On a sad note....I can see where they would put people on something like that every day in hospitals/etc to keep them quiet!  I'll cut it in half next time and keep you all posted if you are interested. Smiley
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #1 - Aug 27th, 2009 at 8:01am  
This is the abstract I first posted which got several of us "hooked" on it. I've used it since reading it and receive absolute relief with such speed that it's like flipping a light switch!

There have not been any follow-up studies of note since Rozen's report and so the standard lists of treatments rarely recognize it as an abortive--but I keep suggesting it here and some folks really like it.
===========

Headache 2001 Sep;41(8):813-6 

Olanzapine as an Abortive Agent for Cluster Headache.

Rozen TD.

Department of Neurology, Jefferson Headache Center/Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, Philadelphia, Pa.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate olanzapine as a cluster headache abortive agent in an open-label trial. BACKGROUND: Cluster headache is the most painful headache syndrome known. There are very few recognized abortive therapies for cluster headache and fewer for patients who have contraindications to vasoconstrictive drugs. METHODS: Olanzapine was given as an abortive agent to five patients with cluster headache in an open-label trial. THE INITIAL OLANZAPINE DOSE WAS 5 MG, AND THE DOSE WAS INCREASED TO 10 MG IF THERE WAS NO PAIN RELIEF. THE DOSAGE WAS DECREASED TO 2.5 MG IF THE 5-MG DOSE WAS EFFECTIVE BUT CAUSED ADVERSE EFFECTS. To be included in the study, each patient had to treat at least two attacks with either an effective dose or the highest tolerated dose. RESULTS: Five patients completed the investigation (four men, one woman; four with chronic cluster, one with episodic cluster). Olanzapine reduced cluster pain by at least 80% in four of five patients, and two patients became headache-free after taking the drug. Olanzapine typically alleviated pain within 20 minutes after oral dosing and treatment response was consistent across multiple treated attacks. The only adverse event was sleepiness. CONCLUSIONS: Olanzapine appears to be a good abortive agent for cluster headache. IT ALLEVIATES PAIN QUICKLY AND HAS A CONSISTENT RESPONSE ACROSS MULTIPLE TREATED ATTACKS. IT APPEARS TO WORK IN BOTH EPISODIC AND CHRONIC CLUSTER HEADACHE.

PMID 11576207 PubMed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Olanzapine has a brand name of "Zyprexa" and is a antipsychotic. Don't be put off by this primary usage. Several of the drugs used to treat CH are cross over applications, that is, drugs approved by the FDA for one purpose which are found to be effective with unrelated conditions--BJ.
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Marc
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #2 - Aug 27th, 2009 at 9:10am  
Bob has been reporting very, very good abortive results with this medication for quite awhile now.

Despite that, it doesn't appear to have gained general acceptance as a great abortive for most people around here.

I'm really happy with straight oxygen right now, but Olanzapine is on the top of my list if I need it. It's good to hear that it worked so well for you.

Keep us posted.

Marc
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Joni
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #3 - Aug 27th, 2009 at 9:41am  
Thanks for the replies!  Bob, that is the piece I copied and took to my doctor.  As I mentioned in a message, I am concerned with rebounds on this.  We'll see.
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E-Double
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #4 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 11:15am  
It's my second choice abortive following oxygen.

It happens to abort clean and quick which is not something one would expect from a pill.

for me it works as quick as a jab of trex without the icky feelings afterwords.

Good luck
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Lawrence
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #5 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 7:11pm  
WOW!
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bejeeber
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #6 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 8:38pm  
Hey Bob, how many Zyprexa mg do you take, and do you get the 24 hr slowing down side effect or any other after effects?

And E-Double, what kind of icky imitrex side effects have you experienced? (I haven't noticed imitrex side effects when I use it)
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« Last Edit: Aug 29th, 2009 at 8:42pm by bejeeber »  
CH according to Bejeeber:

Strictly relying on doctors for CH treatment is often a prescription that will keep you in a whole lot of PAIN. Doctors are WAY behind in many respects, and they are usually completely unaware of the benefits of high flow 100% O2.

There are lots of effective treatments documented at this site. Take matters into your own hands, learn as much as you can here and at clusterbusters.com, put it into practice, then tell this CH beast Jeebs said hello right before you bash him so hard with a swift uppercut knockout punch that his stupid horns go flinging right off.
bejeeber bejeeber Enter your address line 1 here  
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #7 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 8:41pm  
I use 5mg and have no side effects, no sedation, etc.
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bejeeber
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #8 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 8:45pm  
Bob Johnson wrote on Aug 29th, 2009 at 8:41pm:
I use 5mg and have no side effects, no sedation, etc.


Wow. Cool. How about rebounds? Those pesky buggers seem to wanna keep popping up after abortives are used, so I suppose they're along for the ride with Zyprexa as well?
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« Last Edit: Aug 29th, 2009 at 8:45pm by bejeeber »  
CH according to Bejeeber:

Strictly relying on doctors for CH treatment is often a prescription that will keep you in a whole lot of PAIN. Doctors are WAY behind in many respects, and they are usually completely unaware of the benefits of high flow 100% O2.

There are lots of effective treatments documented at this site. Take matters into your own hands, learn as much as you can here and at clusterbusters.com, put it into practice, then tell this CH beast Jeebs said hello right before you bash him so hard with a swift uppercut knockout punch that his stupid horns go flinging right off.
bejeeber bejeeber Enter your address line 1 here  
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Joni
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #9 - Aug 30th, 2009 at 1:37am  
Bob-Glad you don't have the side effects (however they are nice and pleasant if you don't have to go anywhere).   Smiley  My sister never has side effects to anything and I am jealous, sometimes.  I have them to everything.

Bejeeber-As for the rebounds, I have always had trouble with that, too, with the abortives.  I thought it was because I was so sensitive to meds.  I learned to taper them REALLY SLOWLY breaking pills in halves, then fourths, etc.  It took me months to get off Prednisone one time due to rebounds, but I finally got it tapered enough, but not without a lot of complications from it that took a long time to get over.   Cry

I must share an interesting thing that I just figured out about my use with the Zyprexa.  You know how smart these clusters are and that they can tell time?   Smiley  I was just logging my headaches and noticed that since I have been taking the Zyprexa on Tuesday, I have had a headache exactly 33 hours apart!  That is opposed to the 3-4 hits a day I was having.  I thought maybe I had added wrong and had my husband check it...I was right.  So, my plan now it to take half of one at 32 hours and see if I can stretch the time out which I think might be the ticket.  I'll keep you posted.

Joni
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #10 - Aug 30th, 2009 at 1:15pm  
I've not had rebounds with Zyprexa and since there has been very little medical material on its use, no information flowing from those sources.
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #11 - Sep 1st, 2009 at 10:23pm  
Interesting.....I am trying out a new Neuro tomorrow since I fired my last one 6 years ago......I hope this one listens to me..Getting hit hard and fast ....no sleep the last couple of weeks with an ER visit on Thursday as my O2 isn't doing the trick....I think I need a 25L....15L isn't cutting it right now....Since I hate the normal cluster meds as they extended my cycles before and gave me bad rebounds I just might ask him for an RX of this stuff....as a 2nd choice after my O2....I'll let you know how this one goes....Kinda nervous about a new Neuro...I hope he thinks outside the box!

Karen
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Joni
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #12 - Sep 2nd, 2009 at 12:29am  
Good luck at the doctor!   Smiley
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Lawrence
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #13 - Sep 4th, 2009 at 5:35pm  
Joni wrote on Aug 30th, 2009 at 1:37am:
I must share an interesting thing that I just figured out about my use with the Zyprexa.  You know how smart these clusters are and that they can tell time?   Smiley  I was just logging my headaches and noticed that since I have been taking the Zyprexa on Tuesday, I have had a headache exactly 33 hours apart!  That is opposed to the 3-4 hits a day I was having.  I thought maybe I had added wrong and had my husband check it...I was right.  So, my plan now it to take half of one at 32 hours and see if I can stretch the time out which I think might be the ticket.  I'll keep you posted.

Joni 


Hows this working for you now Joni?
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Joni
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #14 - Sep 4th, 2009 at 6:07pm  
Lawrence-

Thanks for asking.  The Zyprexa is working out very well within 15-20 min (Can you believe it...a pill!) but I have had to learn the hard way how to do the dosing.  The 33 hours should have warned me, but I got so happy and when I would have a shadow, I would take 1/2 of the pill.  Well, I did that for a couple of the next HA's, then all of a sudden I had 3 HA's back to back with about 5-10 apart for a breather.  I looked at my Rx log and realized it was maybe rebound/withdrawal HA's.  Also, the half pill didn't work on a full blown cluster, though it did for the shadows.  To make this story short...It takes me 2.5mg for a cluster, then I should start tapering way before the 33 hours to avoid another HA.  That's where I am right now, at 21 hours after a pill.  To be continued...

Thanks
Joan   Undecided
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Lawrence
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #15 - Sep 5th, 2009 at 10:23am  
Joni wrote on Sep 4th, 2009 at 6:07pm:
Lawrence-

Thanks for asking.  The Zyprexa is working out very well within 15-20 min (Can you believe it...a pill!) but I have had to learn the hard way how to do the dosing.  The 33 hours should have warned me, but I got so happy and when I would have a shadow, I would take 1/2 of the pill.  Well, I did that for a couple of the next HA's, then all of a sudden I had 3 HA's back to back with about 5-10 apart for a breather.  I looked at my Rx log and realized it was maybe rebound/withdrawal HA's.  Also, the half pill didn't work on a full blown cluster, though it did for the shadows.  To make this story short...It takes me 2.5mg for a cluster, then I should start tapering way before the 33 hours to avoid another HA.  That's where I am right now, at 21 hours after a pill.  To be continued...

Thanks
Joan   Undecided


hmm, interesting.

So its not good to use this pill for shadows. You know, shadows sometimes bother me more than the HA.

I see my neuro Tuesday, im gonna ask him about this pill, maybe getting me some sample bottles at least.
Thanks for this info Joni
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Joni
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #16 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 12:01am  
Lawrence and Karen-

Di you go to the doctor?  What was the result?    Huh
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Lawrence
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #17 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 12:45pm  
Joni wrote on Sep 7th, 2009 at 12:01am:
Lawrence and Karen-

Di you go to the doctor?  What was the result?    Huh



I see my neuro tomorrow, i'm asking him for this Zyprexa.
Can it be taken with Verapamil?

I guess Karen has seen her doc already, but she hasn't chimed in... Sad
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Joni
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #18 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 2:29pm  
Lawrence-Yes, my doctor has me on both Verapamil and Zyprexa.  Go for it.  Good luck!

Joni   Smiley
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Lawrence
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #19 - Sep 8th, 2009 at 1:49pm  
Saw my neuro today, I asked him about the Zyprexa, he wrote me a prescription for it, but was very hesitant.....he said this medication can have MANY SIDE EFFECTS, side effects which include AMNESIA, Delirium, Anti-social behavior, Paranoia, and also Parkinsons-like effects,... Shocked Shocked Shocked

dude frightened me a little to say the least.....i have the script but haven't gotten it filled yet, wanted to ask you guys who are taking it, HONESTLY, have you experienced any of these, or any UNWANTED side effects while taking it....
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Marc
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #20 - Sep 8th, 2009 at 2:57pm  
I have not tried it yet, but many people report a lack of problems.

Side effects tend to be different for different people, BUT that list generally pertains to higher doses taken by people who are taking it for other reasons.

Try very low doses and work your way up if you are concerned. What dose did your Doctor suggest to start with?
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« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2009 at 2:58pm by Marc »  
 
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #21 - Sep 8th, 2009 at 3:00pm  
A list of side effects is a statement of POSSIBILITIES. It is not a PREDICTION of what will occur. Wisdom calls for knowing both the risk and asking the doc what to look for, i.e., symptoms of side effects.

The side effects that your doc reads in the medical literature are derived from studies of people who use it, often in significant doses, for days/weeks on end.

When we use for CH, it's one low dose, per attack, whereas, the patients on whom this drug was tested (for serious mental conditions), the dose will be about 4x larger. The point being, the risk of any side effect is nearly zip AND if you experience any impact, it won't hit you overnight. The relative slow onset will give you time to observe and talk to your doc.

Our experience here, for CH, has been one of effectiveness and safety--according to folks who have reported their experience. Only one person has reported some drowsy feelings but getting 100% relief.

As I keep writing, drug people say, in all seriousness, that if aspirin were up for approval today--it would fail! Side effects are too common. Yet we use it by the ton every day....

Knowledge and self-observation are how we protect ourselves with ANY medication--even the most benign OTC product.

(I hope that you gave your doc the abstract I posted at the top of this string giving the original report on using Zyprexa. He needs this information.)
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« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2009 at 3:07pm by Bob Johnson »  
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Lawrence
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #22 - Sep 8th, 2009 at 3:45pm  
Marc wrote on Sep 8th, 2009 at 2:57pm:
I have not tried it yet, but many people report a lack of problems.

Side effects tend to be different for different people, BUT that list generally pertains to higher doses taken by people who are taking it for other reasons.

Try very low doses and work your way up if you are concerned. What dose did your Doctor suggest to start with?




My doc wrote the script for 5mg....to be taken as an abortive as needed, but no more than one 5mg pill in a 24 hour period
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Lawrence
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #23 - Sep 8th, 2009 at 3:46pm  
Bob Johnson wrote on Sep 8th, 2009 at 3:00pm:
A list of side effects is a statement of POSSIBILITIES. It is not a PREDICTION of what will occur. Wisdom calls for knowing both the risk and asking the doc what to look for, i.e., symptoms of side effects.

The side effects that your doc reads in the medical literature are derived from studies of people who use it, often in significant doses, for days/weeks on end.

When we use for CH, it's one low dose, per attack, whereas, the patients on whom this drug was tested (for serious mental conditions), the dose will be about 4x larger. The point being, the risk of any side effect is nearly zip AND if you experience any impact, it won't hit you overnight. The relative slow onset will give you time to observe and talk to your doc.

Our experience here, for CH, has been one of effectiveness and safety--according to folks who have reported their experience. Only one person has reported some drowsy feelings but getting 100% relief.

As I keep writing, drug people say, in all seriousness, that if aspirin were up for approval today--it would fail! Side effects are too common. Yet we use it by the ton every day....

Knowledge and self-observation are how we protect ourselves with ANY medication--even the most benign OTC product.

(I hope that you gave your doc the abstract I posted at the top of this string giving the original report on using Zyprexa. He needs this information.)



thanks Bob
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bejeeber
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Re: Zyprexa!
Reply #24 - Sep 8th, 2009 at 6:43pm  
Any one know whether Zyprexa plays nice with imitrex?

As in:

"Dang this Zyprexa isn't working, I'll just whip out my imitrex and get a quick jab then without fear of a bad interaction between these 2 drugs"

Or:

"I used my one allowable dose of Zyprexa 6 hours ago, so now that I'm being hit again, heck I'll just use my trusty  imitrex this time"?
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CH according to Bejeeber:

Strictly relying on doctors for CH treatment is often a prescription that will keep you in a whole lot of PAIN. Doctors are WAY behind in many respects, and they are usually completely unaware of the benefits of high flow 100% O2.

There are lots of effective treatments documented at this site. Take matters into your own hands, learn as much as you can here and at clusterbusters.com, put it into practice, then tell this CH beast Jeebs said hello right before you bash him so hard with a swift uppercut knockout punch that his stupid horns go flinging right off.
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