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Help please:Neuro told me PREDNISONE or TOPIMAX (Read 1213 times)
j0hnglist
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Help please:Neuro told me PREDNISONE or TOPIMAX
Apr 30th, 2009 at 1:24pm
 
Went to my first neuro appointment today. He told me I have 2 good options, Prednisone (a corticosteroid) or Topimax (Topiramate).
He believes since I have episodic Clusters (so far 3 yr cycles), I need to go full force with the prevent methods and get rid of it, then wane off the drugs and hopefully I will be in remission within a month.

Problems for me:
1. I am very scared of a steroid like Presdnisone.  It can damage your body forever. My course would be short but you never know

2. Topimax sounds fishy to me. PErhaps it causes future rebounds? And wouldnt make me worthless at work, I would be in a fog for weeks. And also experimenting different dosage levels for weeks doesn't sound right for me. I heard too much Topimax and you can make your CH's worse.

3. Because of this forum I started taking Verapamil 2 days ago. He did NOT like this idea and told me to get off it immediately. He told me it would be his 5th line of defense if he had to choose. But the stuff I read from this site insists combining it with other treatments is fine. Why did he tell me to stop?

4. Oxygen: Before even mentioning it, he told me it was the best abortive method. However, he told me if I am on steroids, I wont have clusters in 2-3 days and it would take me longer to get oxygen tanks by then. Plus he said my insurance will NOT pay for it. Hmm?

I am more confused than ever and don't know what to do.  Does ANYBODY have experiences with the 2 methods he outlined? Should I follow this guy? Keep in mind I have episodic not chronic clusters (yet). Your input would be greatly appreciated guys!

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« Last Edit: Apr 30th, 2009 at 1:26pm by j0hnglist »  
 
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ClusterChuck
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Re: Help please:Neuro told me PREDNISONE or TOPIMAX
Reply #1 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 2:21pm
 
From what you have told me, I question this guys knowledge of the condition and effective treatments.

Verapamil DOES have possible side effects as does EVERY medication you take.  Yet, for many it is extremely effective.  Prednisone is not something to get overly afraid of.  Taken as a taper pack, it is usually fine.  A taper pack is where you start out with a high dosage, and then taper down to nothing.  Depending on the taper pack you get put on, it could be 10 to 21 days worth.  Prednisone usually gets to work very quickly to stop or at least slow down your attacks.

The trick to using the pred taper, is that it is only for a short time.  Therefore, you need to start a second medication at the same time.  Unlike prednesone, most other treatments take several days to build up to an effective level to work.  That is why they are started at the same time as the prednisone.  While your second medication is building in your system, hopefully the prednisone has stopped your pain, and holds off the beast, while the second medication gets up to snuff.

Verapamil, Topomax, Lithium are all meds used as the second medication.  Why this guy says one or the other, I have no idea, except he does not know the proper way to use them.

So, unlike the choice he gave you, I think your choice is whether to stay with this guy, and try to enlighten him, or find another, more knowledgeable doctor!

Keep us informed!

Chuck
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CAUTION:  Do NOT smoke when using or around oxygen.  Oxygen can permeate your clothing or bedding.  Wait, before lighting cigarette or flame.  

Keep fire extinguisher available, and charged.
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Re: Help please:Neuro told me PREDNISONE or TOPIMAX
Reply #2 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 2:46pm
 
That was my exact next question. Prednisone once you taper down, your clusters come back if you are not using a new Drug thats caught up to its effective level. So, since I am only getting 3-6 level headaches currently and have been dealing with this for 4 weeks already, why should I put powerful steroids in my body? I can wait it out for the Verapamil to kick in. IMO, an extra week of hurt is worth saving the weeks worth of side effects I might get from Prednisone.
My doc prob doesn't know my headaches have decreased from the 8-9 scale for now (cause I wanted him to take my condition seriously).

Perhaps the Neuro's logic is that he thinks in my case, he can break the cycle completely? But what is the chance of that happening? I am really torn about this.

PS: thanks Chuck for your posts. I really value your input
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« Last Edit: Apr 30th, 2009 at 2:49pm by j0hnglist »  
 
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BarbaraD
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Re: Help please:Neuro told me PREDNISONE or TOPIMAX
Reply #3 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 5:30pm
 
I'm chronic and have been on topomax since 99 and think it's wonderful. I take the whole dose at night and don't experience the side effects that bother a lot of people who take it as "directed". My neuro has started RXing it like I take it cause it doesn't bother me and I've been on some pretty high doses - right now I'm only on 100mg.

The pred taper, as Chuck said is only an interim thing to get the prevent into your system.

And the guy needs his head checked about the O2. It doesn't take but a couple of hours to get O2. The Dr. can fax the script to the supplier and you can pick it up. I live out in the boondocks and it doesn't take me long to get my supply and they "deliver".

Good lord! I wish I could take you to my neuro - he KNOWS what he's doing. I just really get upset at docs who don't. Sometimes ya just gotta TRAIN your doc. If this one won't listen to you - fire him and find another one who will.  Some of us have gone thru a bunch before we found one we could deal with.

And another thing - you have to be PROactive in your treatment. Don't take the doc's word for everything. KNOW what you're talking about when you see him. Do your research BEFORE your visit and have it handy. He probably won't know as much as you will. Teach him if he's willing to learn. If not find a doc who's willing.

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Re: Help please:Neuro told me PREDNISONE or TOPIMAX
Reply #4 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 10:51pm
 
I wouldnt worry about a pred taper if I were you.  I have at times been on it for very long periods of time, and yes, it had awful side effects, but as a taper, the side effects have always been minimal, and I am not sure about long term effects.  I think your doc sounds like an idiot.  About 20 years ago, I was in one of the top neurologists in the countrys office(Jeffersons neurology dept. in Phila)  anyway, I was there because I had a brain tumor removed, and it left me with seizures,  I kept telling the guy about these awful headaches I was having, describing the one sided pain, and how they wake me up every night etc. and he told me that they were probably sinus pain.  Then I looked at this little chart he had on the wall in his office describing the different types of headaches, (stress, tension, migrain, cluster)  And I said to him, "Hey, these cluster headache things, sound just like what i have"  he said no they werent because I am a woman and they are only in men.     It just goes to show you that  even in a top rated hospital, the nuerologists dont know enough about headaches.  Why dont you see if you can find a headache specialist in your area?  I have a neurologist for my epilepsy, and a headache specialist for CH.  the neuro gets insulted too, when I mention it.  Its pretty funny.

Oh and topamax never helped me at all,  but it may help you.  I have been on a steady low dose of verap for 2 yrs, and I am convinced it kept me pain free for the longest time in my adult life.  I dont really care about the long term effects, because the pain and stress of CH is very likely to put me in an early grave anyway.

good luck and make sure your doc knows what the deal is, and take some printouts  or something and make him read them.  O2 really is a godsend to us, and hes an ass if he doesnt want you to take it.
chris
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Help please:Neuro told me PREDNISONE or TOPIMAX
Reply #5 - May 1st, 2009 at 9:28am
 
I knew a man in N.C. who died at 75 never having a water heater in his house. Why? Because his grandmother's heater exploded (when he was a young kid) and he never trusted them again.

The second leading cause of cancer deaths in men is prostate cancer, although it's quite curable when men allow themselves to be diagnosed and treated.

My point is this: decisions about medical treatments are fraught with human issues and technical/medical considerations which make easy and simple decisions--which are also judicious decisions--increasingly difficult.

As the number of meds & treatments have multiplied and become more potent and effective, the more side effects we have to be aware of and learn how to manage--if we want the benefits they offer. It's simply an illusion to expect high levels of both effectiveness and freedom from side effects: it's just not in the cards. (More than one science type has commented that aspirin would never pass the FDA licensing process were is coming out today: too many side effects.)

I have the perspective of age to remember when major surgery was used to treat infections because antibiotics didn't arrive until I was just getting out of grammar school! Perspective is hard to develop and especially so when dealing with a complex area out of our common experience, e.g., medicine. We do have some good sources of information which only became readily to hand with the advent of the WWW. BUT even these resources can be a problem when we don't know the quality of the information or have the skills/experience to interpret what we find.

Over the years of reading messages here I've often been anxious about the readiness of folks to manipulate drug doses, play with combinations of meds, and not reporting problems to their docs--and blow off a med as bad/useless. Even the most conscientious consumer will have some problems; the ignorant and flippant are setting themselves up for trouble.

In the end, we are all confronted with trying to strike a balance between benefit and potential cost (cost being $, side effects, and degree of effectiveness). But I'm not about to give up on modern medicine because half a life time ago the picture was so limited and even grim!
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Re: Help please:Neuro told me PREDNISONE or TOPIMAX
Reply #6 - May 1st, 2009 at 11:30am
 
chrisw: the neuro I am seeing IS a headache specialist lol
BTW, what ARE the long term effects of Verapimil?
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DennisM1045
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Re: Help please:Neuro told me PREDNISONE or TOPIMAX
Reply #7 - May 1st, 2009 at 12:13pm
 
The chief side effects you'll see from Verapamil are:

Constipation - can be moderated with the use of miralax.  For some this is a deal breaker.

Low heart rate / blood pressure - Can cause dizziness, erectile disfunction, etc.

Heart rythm problems - at high doses used for treating CH about 20% of patients develop heart rythm problem.  This goes away once verapamil is discontinued.  You should have a baseline EKG done before starting the drug.  Another one when you reach your effective dosage.  It should then be repeated every six months while you are on it or any time the dosage is increased.

I have high blood pressure and take 120mg of verapamil year round.  When a cycle starts I switch from once a day to the regular release formulation and build up to 400mg.  It takes about two weeks for me to see relief.  Once I'm there verapamil knocks out ~90% of my hits.  So for me, it is very effective.

I also have IBS so the constipating side effect actually helps.

The biggest thing that I notice is I'm unable to drive my heart rate to its normal arobic range.  I actually have to knock about 30bpm off my target rate.

-Dennis-
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Where there is life, there is hope.
Where there is Oxygen, you must use proper caution.
So be safe, don't smoke while using O2. Kill the pain and not yourself.
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