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Lobster

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O2 Concentrator Question
Apr 8^th, 2009 at 8:34am

I planned to try this, but have been quite successful in preventing my cycles. Thus the need has not arisen.

O2 concentrators can kick out 4-6lpm of decent quality oxygen... 80%+ purity at the higher rates.

Used O2 concentrators can be had for as little as $200, though $300 is probably a better figure.

Has anyone tried running 2 or 3 O2 concentrators in parallel to provide their CH abort needs?

I suppose my thinking on this is that a sub-$1000 investment would keep me in O2 for years without the expense and hassle of keeping my O2 tanks filled. I planned to keep one large O2 tank as a backup.

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DennisM1045

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #1 - Apr 8^th, 2009 at 12:56pm

There was someone that posted about cobbling together something like that. I think he used two 8lpm units.

Concentrators aren't without their expense either. There are filters which need replacement and other maintenance which needs to be performed regularly.

You might want to call up a local O2 supplier to find out what goes into the care and feeding of one of these units.

-Dennis-

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Where there is life, there is hope.
Where there is Oxygen, you must use proper caution.
So be safe, don't smoke while using O2. Kill the pain and not yourself.

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Lefty

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #2 - Apr 8^th, 2009 at 12:56pm

The O2 concentrator was an option that my doctor discussed with me

when he first gave me 02 as an abortive. I read the 02 info on the left

and it mentioned that this machine was of no benefit to CH sufferers.

I understand what you are trying to say, maybe if you were able to rent 2or 3 for a week and give it a lash.

There is some out there that do deliver at 10lpm maybe this would be enough to bust up shadows...

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Lefty..!

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"When money's tight and is hard to get
And your horse has also ran,
When all you have is a heap of debt
A PINT OF PLAIN IS YOUR ONLY MAN."
— Flann O'Brien

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Pixie-elf CH.com Hall of Famer Offline I've tried the rest, and busting is the best! Posts: 517 Beaumont,Tx Gender:	Re: O2 Concentrator Question Reply #3 - Apr 8^th, 2009 at 10:28pm The only problem I can think of is guaranteeing that you get 100% oxygen. Although I'd be interested in seeing if it worked, I'd be afraid to try at less than 100%, myself.
Back to top	As far as I'm concerned, cluster busting has been the best treatment I've tried. No migraines since I started it, and my hits have gotten so much better. Wanna know more? Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or It's saved my life. IP Logged

Guiseppi

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #4 - Apr 9^th, 2009 at 4:13am

Pixie-elf wrote on Apr 8^th, 2009 at 10:28pm:

The only problem I can think of is guaranteeing that you get 100% oxygen.

Although I'd be interested in seeing if it worked, I'd be afraid to try at less than 100%, myself.

Yeah that would be my only concern...if it does kick out 100% oxygen.....your theory sounds pretty good! Wink

Joe

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ClusterChuck

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #5 - Apr 9^th, 2009 at 5:32am

According to my oxygen supplier, who also has the concentrators, NONE of them produce 100% oxygen. I was told you are lucky to get one that produces 90%, regularly.

The concept has some merit, for some users. But even at just 15LPM, of 100% oxygen, it takes many sufferers up to 20 minutes to abort, and some can't abort at all at those rates.

I use a demand valve system, and the way I use it, I use at a rate of about 60LPM. (Demand valve systems do NOT have set flow rates, or rates you can just look at the dial to determine the rate. It has to be guessed and calculated to find a rough idea of the flow rate.) With this high of a rate, I can, many times, abort a hit in FIVE minutes!

Down sides to this concept (as I see it):

High initial outlay of money

self financially supported upkeep and maintenance

dubious efficiency to abort

longer abort times

electrical requirements and expense

non-portability

And there may be more. For myself, I will continue with the tanks. But that is MY choice. I will not denigrate anyone for trying the concentrator gang theory, as long as that person evaluates the down sides, first.

If it DOES work for someone, GREAT!!!

Chuck

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CAUTION: Do NOT smoke when using or around oxygen. Oxygen can permeate your clothing or bedding. Wait, before lighting cigarette or flame.

Keep fire extinguisher available, and charged.

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Lefty

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #6 - Apr 9^th, 2009 at 3:37pm

Quote:

Down sides to this concept (as I see it):

High initial outlay of money

self financially supported upkeep and maintenance

dubious efficiency to abort

longer abort times

electrical requirements and expense

non-portability

I think Chuck makes some very valid points as to why the 02 concentrator may not work...!

Wow chuck 60lpm.. Your going to spontaneous combust someday buddy..!

I've notice alot reading these threads that you folks across the pond have problems getting oxygen on your health insurance (Thats Bad Karma). In Southern Ireland its the same they also need insurance and visits to the Doc cost €50. There's alot to be said about the NHS in N.Ireland. My Doc was for getting me one of these suckers and that included maintenance all for

Free

.

I know I'm an Irish Catholic living in N.Ireland and I should be singing for a United Ireland. But as long as I have Cluster headaches all I can say is "

God Save The Queen"

.

Does Allstate do health insurance, I know they are an American company they have a huge call centre here in my home town...

Lefty..!

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"When money's tight and is hard to get
And your horse has also ran,
When all you have is a heap of debt
A PINT OF PLAIN IS YOUR ONLY MAN."
— Flann O'Brien

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Lobster

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #7 - Apr 9^th, 2009 at 3:39pm

60lpm? Zounds Chucker!

In theory, according to my walnut sized brain, the lungs can only soak up so much pure O2 in a fixed time span.
You may be able to get 60LPM into your lungs, but your lungs are probably spitting out 95% pure O2 on the exhale.
I believe that is why doctors look at us like we are on crack when we say 'gimme 15LPM'.
One could venture that some other variable is at play here. The same mechanism as hyperventilation, but with pure O2? The cold from the O2 on the inside base of your skull... where the hypothalathingy is? Random guesses.

My take on the 80% purity... 16LPM of 80% O2 is the same O2 flow as about 13LPM at 100%. Would it matter? I dunno.

Perhaps a trigger of CH is low oxygen in the blood/body... both dissolved and bound to hemoglobin. I would guess that when Chuck is doing 60LPM he is hyperventilating and has an exceedingly high pulse... thus the body is going 200mph getting the O2 levels back up to snuff.

As such... I wonder if another use for the O2 concentrator would be this... keep one on 3-4LPM all night, then sleep with a nasal cannula on... thus keeping the body O2 levels above average all evening.
Basically the same as keeping an O2 tank on all night at a lower volume. Think it would have any preventative effect?

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Marc

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #8 - Apr 9^th, 2009 at 3:55pm

Aside from low flow and low concentration, you missed one more potential pitfall.

Most of the units out there take several minutes to start producing O2. Sure, they pump out air when you flip the switch, but the 80%-95% concentration comes up very gradually over many minutes.

By that time I'd already be ramping up the Kip scale too far. So, if you go that route, use your tank until you hear regen valves flip over a couple of times, then switch over from the tank.

Welding O2 costs me $18.50 for my 9,300 liter tank........so I'm filling my E tanks for about $1.35 each. Just a thought for folks like me who are jobless and self pay.......

Marc

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« Last Edit: Apr 9^th, 2009 at 3:55pm by Marc »

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brainpain

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #9 - Apr 11^th, 2009 at 5:53pm

i have two concentraters connected and push just 10 lpm
it takes at least 15 lpm for my head pain sometimes 12 but not to often.
ive never been able to make oxygen work as good as ot does through a high flow nasel canuler. yes it does burn and the nose is like a focet but relief is golden!
to tell ya the truth the things are very new and i dont use them anymore, because they just didnt put out enough. maybe if you connected a third one?

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« Last Edit: Apr 11^th, 2009 at 5:56pm by brainpain »

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ClusterChuck

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #10 - Apr 11^th, 2009 at 6:05pm

brainpain wrote on Apr 11^th, 2009 at 5:53pm:

through a high flow nasel canuler. yes it does burn and the nose is like a focet but relief is golden!

First of all, get rid of that nose canula! You do NOT get the full oxygen input! It allows too much ambient air in with it, so even if you were using 100% oxygen, it would cut it down drastically, using the nose canula!

You need a tight seal to your face so that the ONLY air getting in, is the air from the oxygen tank or concentrator! Use a non-rebreather mask, or better yet, an O2PTIMASK^TM.

In an emergency, the nose canula can be used as follows:
First clean off the buggers THOROUGHLY, or start with a new, never been used one.

Put it in your mouth and seal your lips around it.

Breath in, only from the canula, with no outside air entering. (Plug your nose, if you have to)

Then open your mouth, in order to exhale.

Chuck

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CAUTION: Do NOT smoke when using or around oxygen. Oxygen can permeate your clothing or bedding. Wait, before lighting cigarette or flame.

Keep fire extinguisher available, and charged.

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brainpain CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 6	Re: O2 Concentrator Question Reply #11 - Apr 11^th, 2009 at 6:10pm only works through my nose, rebreathers not effetive. i have everything needed and supplied to me by o2 company. tanks of o2 whats the other mask you talk about? thanks bp read intro
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Balanchine

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #12 - Apr 13^th, 2009 at 2:44pm

ClusterChuck wrote on Apr 9^th, 2009 at 5:32am:

I use a demand valve system, and the way I use it, I use at a rate of about 60LPM.

Chuck

Chuck, when you say demand valve, are you referring to a standard SCUBA type regulator? If so, howdja get that baby set up? I have a friend in Miami, my home town (I live in LA) who owns one of the biggest scuba gas supply companies in the area, and he says no one will fill a tank with pure O2 if it's meant to be used with a scuba regulator. As a former diver, I know why! But I still have a working regulator somewhere around here, and if there were a way to adapt it to my welder's tank... that'd be great. Any suggestions appreciated!

Thanks.
David

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Skyhawk5

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #13 - Apr 13^th, 2009 at 7:35pm

David,

They're not exactly the same. To see a picture of Chuck's demand valve click on the "oxygen info" link on the left of this screen.

I have read that someone on CH.com does use the divers setup but don't remember who. Chuck's type setup was designed for Ambulances & Hospitals.

brainpain, you can still breathe thru your nose with a mask. You will get more pure O2.

Good Luck, Don

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« Last Edit: Apr 13^th, 2009 at 7:37pm by Skyhawk5 »

Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the Beast , I have O2 so I fear him not.

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Balanchine

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Re: O2 Concentrator Question
Reply #14 - Apr 13^th, 2009 at 8:56pm

Thanks, Don. In all my research and such on O2 I don't think I'd read that page in its entirety... or perhaps just not recently. The demand regulator looks interesting and I wonder if it can be adapted to my welder's tank... hmm.... might be the right size already.

In any event my rig seems to work for me when I need it so I'm good. I just think it's stupid that I can't take an ordinary scuba tank into a medical supply house and get it filled with O2 - let's assume that I've got a prescription from my doc that says why I need it, and that I promise I won't go diving with it and kill myself...

Thanks again.
David

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