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Batch

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Re: 4-6 hour attacks
Reply #25 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 11:43am

UTR,

Just guessing mind you, and I may be completely off base, but it sounds like you may be having heavy shadows or like you said earlier, a secondary headache in conjunction with a cluster headache. In my 15 years with cluster headaches as an episodic and now as a chronic, I've found my cluster headaches come in two distinct varieties... I call them Shadows and Stingers.

My shadows happen at Kip-5 and below and my stingers run at Kip-6 and above. I made the distinction between these two types of cluster headache attacks for the simple reason that Shadows very rarely ever climb above a Kip-5. Like $hit, they just happen. They increase in pain very slowly and can last for several hours. Other than the gnawing pain, I have none of the other classic cluster headache symptoms when I have shadows. There's no tearing, no runny nose, no puffy eyelid and no allodynia. In short, I have none of the autonomic symptoms characteristic of the cluster headache syndrome other than the pain. A Kip-4 will wake me unless I'm tooted on rum & coke... and if I'm really tired, I can go back to sleep with a Kip-3.

Stingers on the other hand rocket from the first sign of a pending attack prior to any pain up to Kip-7, Kip-8, or higher in less than 3 to 4 minutes. My stingers last from 15 minutes to no more than an hour and a half without intervention. I know the difference between the these two varieties, so when I have a stinger starting it's very obvious and I run for the oxygen as fast as my feet will carry me. My eye starts to water and nose run on the hit side between Kip-6 to Kip-7 and by Kip-8 I have most of the classic cluster headache symptoms. I have had back-to-back stingers with as little as 15 to 30 minutes between attacks.

I also find it hard to believe that anyone, not Superman or even Chuck would be able to take a Kip-9 or Kip-10 without some form of intervention for much more than an hour without going totally bananas... Having said that, I'm well aware we're all wired differently and I'm equally sure none of us perceive pain exactly the same so anything is possible... I do think that calibrating our perception of pain by using Kip-level at wake up and Kip-level where tearing starts is helpful.

Hope this makes sense...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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Marc Ex Member Gender:	Re: 4-6 hour attacks Reply #26 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 11:54am You just described me perfectly! Marc
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Opus

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Re: 4-6 hour attacks
Reply #27 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 1:31pm

Batch wrote on Jan 9^th, 2009 at 11:43am:

I also find it hard to believe that anyone, not Superman or even Chuck would be able to take a Kip-9 or Kip-10 without some form of intervention for much more than an hour without going totally bananas...

Close, after 2 hours you become psychotic, your mind goes away and your subconscious comes out to play. It takes a lot too keep yourself together. At first you tell yourself you can make it 15 more minutes , then 5, and finally surviving 1 minute at a time.

Paul

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« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2009 at 1:31pm by Opus »

I no longer post because no one cares what I say.

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MITYRARE

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Re: 4-6 hour attacks
Reply #28 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 2:23pm

Batch wrote on Jan 9^th, 2009 at 11:43am:

I also find it hard to believe that anyone, not Superman or even Chuck would be able to take a Kip-9 or Kip-10 without some form of intervention for much more than an hour without going totally bananas...

I am sure some of us have gone "totally bananas" and you are correct that we occassionally need an intervention at the emergency room of the nearest hospital to sedate away some of the pain/misery.

I agree with Opus (one of the other Pauls's...what is with Paul's getting these things anyhow?...i know of several) that you must get yourself into a mental zone to deal with them....for me it is almost an out of body experience...my own mental coping mechanism I guess....see, maybe i am bananas!!

Paul

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Paul
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UnderTheRadar

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Re: 4-6 hour attacks
Reply #29 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 2:24pm

Thank you, Batch! That was a very clear explanation! I'm still trying to learn to gauge the "shadows" from the "stingers", and that description really helped.

Whatever this was that happened, the "hot poker through the eye" type of pain was the constant; for the whole 2 days, it was there, wavering between a 6 and a 9....but, I did not get any of the side symptoms like tearing or drooping eye; I had a mild tension-type headache across my forehead as well, though, but that was bumpkus compared to the occipital stabbing.

My doctor really thinks it was a rogue CH hit...but hey, I won't quibble as long as it stays gone! Grin

As far as pain goes...I've had kidney stones, five broken noses, three broken ankles that I didn't even know about, and natural childbirth. And I can definitely say that this was worse than all of those. Cheesy

But hey, I'm my father's daughter, right Batch? Wink

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Layla328

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Re: 4-6 hour attacks
Reply #30 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 8:25pm

Batch...

Not sure what you mean by "smoked out a few more outliers". I have had a Kip 10 that lasted nearly 2 hours--well, it ramped down after an hour and then immediately ramped back up. My neuro is a headache specialist who works at one of the best headache clinics in the Northeast and he told me that they can last longer than that. All I know is, they can ramp down and then ramp back up right away. It's not pretty, but it can happen. It's a reason to keep imitrex on hand.
Also, I've been episodic for 20 years--there is no grey area in my mind between a shadow and an actual CH attack. I have had a few more painful prolonged shadows which, while I had them, I was wondering whether or not they would actually turn into an attack (they didn't), but I don't really see how anyone can confuse a shadow with an attack (unless they are just confused about what a shadow actually is--which I think would be possible if someone had only been episodic for a few years).
Just my 2 cents.

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« Last Edit: Jan 10^th, 2009 at 8:31pm by Layla328 »

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Layla328

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Re: 4-6 hour attacks
Reply #31 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 8:41pm

Sorry, just to add on about SHADOWS--could I be so bold as to define what I think a shadow is? A shadow is when you feel like you might, in the near future, be getting a cluster headache attack. I am mainly awakened by sleep from CH, but have had many daytime attacks also. A shadow is where you get a sensation (certainly not pleasant but not horrible) in your head which makes you think "shit I hope I will not soon be getting a cluster headache". OK. Just wanted to say that b.c that is what I think a shadow is. The pain of a shadow to me is really nowhere in the realm of the actual cluster headache attack pain zone. If I am wrong I apologize.

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« Last Edit: Jan 10^th, 2009 at 8:43pm by Layla328 »

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Linda_Howell

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Re: 4-6 hour attacks
Reply #32 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 9:43pm

Quote:

Close, after 2 hours you become psychotic, your mind goes away and your subconscious comes out to play. It takes a lot too keep yourself together. At first you tell yourself you can make it 15 more minutes , then 5, and finally surviving 1 minute at a time.

Paul

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Paul....I don't believe anyone has ever said it more perfectly. 2 hours./..o.k. 4 to 6 hours of this pain would/should put one in the looney bin, or begging for anathesia. At least it would me and I have been chronic with no break for almost 22 years now.

Some have said they get hit 17 times per day. What does that mean? one hit every hour for 24 hours lasting how long? How much "down" time in between?

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Rolomatic

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Re: 4-6 hour attacks
Reply #33 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 10:01pm

I have at my worst before lithium, been hit with K10’s every 2 hours for 90 minuets at a time. This 2 hour hit pattern has run up to 60 hours strait, with actual time at K10 in a hit period being from 10-45 minuets and the K10 pain comes in spikes and waves for me. I have punched myself in the head 20-30 times so hard that I have seen stars from the blows (not recommended). I have been at the point where I am screaming and wanting to do the ER thing, and contemplating the pistol. I bypass the “Psychotic” stage and go strait to wanting to put a real-time end to it all… I have somehow been able so far to avoid the ER because I just could not imagine dealing with the pain in an unfamiliar bat cave.

Now that I am on the lithium I rarely get a K9 anymore, but still routinely visit K8 land every three days. My chronic 3 day cycle is a day and night of constant hits followed by a intermittent day and night. On the third day I am usually clear day and night with just one hit at 5-8pm range. Then I wake up to start all over again. Shadow pain almost always on the bad days, and rarely does the shadow pain not bloom in to full blown hits.

The Oxygen Vampire,

Roland. Smiley

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« Last Edit: Jan 10^th, 2009 at 10:18pm by N/A »

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MITYRARE

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Re: 4-6 hour attacks
Reply #34 - Jan 10^th, 2009 at 10:47pm

Layla328 wrote on Jan 10^th, 2009 at 8:41pm:

A shadow is where you get a sensation (certainly not pleasant but not horrible) in your head which makes you think "shit I hope I will not soon be getting a cluster headache"......The pain of a shadow to me is really nowhere in the realm of the actual cluster headache attack pain zone.

Thank you for this excellent definition of how I perceive my "shadows"

Paul

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« Last Edit: Jan 10^th, 2009 at 10:47pm by MITYRARE »

Paul
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Layla328 CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Posts: 804 Boston Gender:	Re: 4-6 hour attacks Reply #35 - Jan 11^th, 2009 at 4:19pm Mityrare--I'm glad if I described it well. Helped me to "define" it cause wasn't sure if I was not understanding what the word implied, but was pretty sure that's what was meant.
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Gemma

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Re: 4-6 hour attacks
Reply #36 - Feb 14^th, 2009 at 4:08pm

I sometimes get attacks that last around 4/5 hours. It happens a few times in a year. I really hate it, its frightening Undecided

And its always the same situation: during the evening I start getting a thick,'sick' feeling in my head. I go to my bed and try to get comfortable, and fall into a restless sleep. Then, at 2am, bang on the dot, I'm woken up with the worst agony Shocked

And it just goes on, and on, and on! At about 5:30am it starts to ease abit, and by about 7am, I can rest a little better, and by then I'm so exhausted I crash out, but it leaves me feeling rough for a couple of days.

Its interesting because, my 'usual' CH attacks happen on the right side of my face/head, but when these Big Bangs come along, its on the left side.

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