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Synergy - A Very Effective Mix (Read 9505 times)
Kilowatt3
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Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Jan 2nd, 2009 at 8:40pm
 
Greetings All,

I have been asked by several people to start a new thread on the topic of the herbal/supplement mix that I and several others have found so very effective at treating cluster headache.  I am not using the dreaded 'C' word, but the mix has effectively eliminated CH from my life.  I get a shadow or two as a cycle tries to start, I start on the mix, no more HA's.  I stay on it for a week or so, and it's all over for another six months. YMMV.

The current discussion of the 'mix' started this past July, when I posted the following in response to a frustrated plea on a thread on this board:

Quote:
I posted a note about this a year or so ago, but thought I should share it with you.  I have had GREAT success with the following regimen:  

Kudzu - 1000 mg, 2x per day (morning & night)  
Magnesium - 250 mg, 2x per day (morning & night)  
St. John's Wort - 300 mg, 2x per day (morning & night)  
Skullcap - 425 mg at bedtime  
Melatonin - 10 mg at bedtime  

A little background:  I'm a 51 y/o male, 215 lbs, episodic CH since 1992.  I was in complete remission for about six years until about this time last year, when the Beast came back.  I decided to try 'alternative' treatment, since I've never had very good luck with doctors for much of anything.  I also would rather avoid the potentially severe and/or permanent side effects that most of the pharmaceutical treatments seem to offer!  I would have tried clusterbusters in a heartbeat, but I have a very real concern about potential legal issues here in Louisiana.  This is not the most progressive state in the U.S.!

All of my 'ingredients' are pretty benign, available OTC, and cheap.  Total cost is well under a buck a day.  Most importantly, they work - at least for me.  I have stopped the Beast in its tracks!  Here's what happened:

I came up with the regimen after reading a whole lot about what different people seemed to think worked well for them, as well as a good bit of the medical literature.  I went out and bought all of the supplements from either Wal-Mart, GNC, or the local health food store.  I started taking them, in the dosages described above, about a week into that cycle last fall.  From Day One, my attacks almost stopped.  I had a couple of K3's after a few days, and then it was over.  No more attacks at all.  I kept taking the supplements for a week or so, just out of caution (fear?), then stopped altogether.  About six months later, a cycle tried to start again - I had a single HA, around a K6 or so.  I restarted my regimen that day, continued it for a week or so, and never had another hit.  After 16 years of CH, I cried when I finally felt sure enough to tell my wife, "I beat them!  It works!  I've beat the f***ing headaches!!!"

As desperate as we are to find something to help with CH, I think most sufferers have become a little jaded, and are unwilling to try something new, just out of fear that it will not work.  No guarantees that it'll work for everybody, of course, but just as a side note, no one has EVER told me that they tried this routine and had it fail.  It' simple, legal, safe, and cheap.  Try it.  YMMV, but it's damn sure worth a try!  The only caveat of which I'm aware is that I've heard that Kudzu may interfere with some of the pharmaceutical meds, so check with your doc if you're still on anything.

I would REALLY appreciate any feedback, pro or con, from anyone who tries this.  Good luck and PFDAN to all!

Regards,
Jim

The original thread is here (if I did this right):

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After reading my post, Cyndi went out and bought the ingredients for her husband, Lorne, who was really having a hard time.  The mix knocked his cycle out in a few days, once he got all the components.  Cyndi proceeded to start another thread, which you can read here:

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After seeing Lorne's success story, Josh ("Hayduke") started on the mix in early September, and had almost immediate success.  You can read about it here:

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Since then, there have been several more success stories with the mix, including some pretty dramatic results.  A couple of others have had less encouraging results, but in each of the cases it seems that either the individual was sensitive to a component of the mix, or was taking a lot of other meds that might have interfered with it.  Again, I'm not claiming it will work for everybody, but it's got a very high success rate!

One of the main reasons I'm starting this new thread is that the old ones seemed to wander quite a bit.  We ended up with a lot of discussion that really did not involve the mix at all.  I, and several others, would like to try and construct a thread specifically about the recipe as described above.  I urge anyone who has tried the mix to contribute with their experiences.

I will make several more posts as time permits, and try to explain some of the 'theory of operation' of the mix.  I believe that there is a lot of synergy between the components of this recipe, and that a lot of the success has to do with the combined effectiveness of the ingredients.  Please do not think that because you have tried one or two of the ingredients in the past without success, it automatically means that this will not work for you! Try it before you knock it!

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the discussions so far, and let's keep those success stories coming!

OK, enough for now!

Very best regards,
Jim
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Regards,
Jim
SW Louisiana

If "that which does not kill me, makes me stronger", then how come I always feel like $hit after every near-death experience?
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AussieBrian
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #1 - Jan 2nd, 2009 at 9:09pm
 

Great move, Jim, and I'll be following it with great interest.

Our friends who've chosen another alternative route started a thread along similar lines recently, we were able to keep it in line, the result being that it was openly discussed between adults and a helluva lot of good information came out of it.

Here's cheers to Synergy.

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My name is Brian. I'm a ClusterHead and I'm here to help. Email me anytime at briandinkum@yahoo.com
 
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Kilowatt3
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #2 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 11:03am
 
AussieBrian wrote on Jan 2nd, 2009 at 9:09pm:
Great move, Jim, and I'll be following it with great interest.

Our friends who've chosen another alternative route started a thread along similar lines recently, we were able to keep it in line, the result being that it was openly discussed between adults and a helluva lot of good information came out of it...

G'Day Brian, and thanks for the post!  What thread is it that you're referring to?

Regards,
Jim
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Jim
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #3 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 4:24pm
 
Kilowatt3 wrote on Jan 3rd, 2009 at 11:03am:
What thread is it that you're referring to?

A thread like this one. A new and novel treatment away from the standard regime.

Only good can come from honest discussion and the spreading of information.
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #4 - Jan 7th, 2009 at 4:40pm
 
Do you think it is safe to take this mix after taking RC seeds?
thanks!
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #5 - Jan 7th, 2009 at 5:07pm
 
I'm sure others will chime in here, but given that it's recommended to detox off of the Kudzu prior to dosing with LSD, LSA (seeds) or Psilocybin (shrooms) (the kudzu works directly on serotonin receptors), it's probably best to give the seeds a few days to do their work - if they're going to work.

Just an FYI, there are potential interactions between St. John's Wort, Kudzu and a lot of things, including lithium and the triptans.  

One of the problems with combining St. John's Wort and/or Kudzu with the triptans (including imitrex) is potentially Serotonin Syndrome, which can be fatal.

Laurie
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« Last Edit: Jan 7th, 2009 at 5:10pm by Garys_Girl »  

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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #6 - Jan 7th, 2009 at 5:14pm
 
catalyst777 wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 4:40pm:
Do you think it is safe to take this mix after taking RC seeds?
thanks!
Thanks for joining the discussion!

I don't have a lot of info regarding that combination, but Rocky started on the regimen soon after an unsuccessful attempt with RC seeds.  He had great results:

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If you decide to try it, please post to let us know how it works for you!

Regards,
Jim
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Regards,
Jim
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #7 - Jan 7th, 2009 at 5:35pm
 
Remember what works for one, may not for another.

For me, St. John's Wort is a bad trigger, as with some other antidepressants.

Melatonin worked great for me but I couldn't stand the side effects.

Right now I use 400mg Magnesium oxide twice a day and 240mg Verapamil twice a day.

Starting that many meds at once will make it impossible to tell which is the problem if one of them is a trigger. Another problem is when this treatment stops working you will have nothing to fall back on. Magnesium did nothing for me in the past but now I live on it. The beast is always changing.

Just my  Smiley

Paul





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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #8 - Jan 7th, 2009 at 9:13pm
 
Opus wrote on Jan 7th, 2009 at 5:35pm:
Remember what works for one, may not for another.

For me, St. John's Wort is a bad trigger, as with some other antidepressants.

Melatonin worked great for me but I couldn't stand the side effects.

Right now I use 400mg Magnesium oxide twice a day and 240mg Verapamil twice a day.

Starting that many meds at once will make it impossible to tell which is the problem if one of them is a trigger. Another problem is when this treatment stops working you will have nothing to fall back on. Magnesium did nothing for me in the past but now I live on it. The beast is always changing.

Just my  Smiley

Paul







I, myself started out one ingredient at a time. I cannot take St.John's Wort. It needs to be noted, that herb interferes with a LOT of medications! Be careful if you're taking anything for Epilepsy, as this herb causes severe problems with those drugs. There's also a chance it may lower the efficiency of birth control.

I started out with the Melatonin, added the Skullcap, and found the Skullcap helped a LOT. The Melatonin changed nothing for me, really. Magnesium changed nothing for me.

Just added the Kudzu, so, I have a while to wait to see how it does me. In a week I'll know if I'm allergic to it or not.

If you do have severe allergies like I do, and want to slowly introduce the different meds, I reccomend you start in this order.

Melatonin (Known to help CH night hits. If you're not on it, start it right now. We have low blood plasma levels of this in cycle!)
Skullcap (I saw results immidiately in my shadows diminishing.)
Kudzu (Also an herb used for CH.)
Magnesium (Blood levels of Magnesium are shown to be low in those with CH...)
St. John's Wort (Unless you have epilepsy or are on birth control, antidepressants etc. In that case, talk with your doc first.)

Good luck to all whom try it, I'll post my results once I have something more substantial.
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It's saved my life.
 
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #9 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 1:53am
 
Thanks to everyone who replied! My brother is actually the one who suffers with CH.  I'm trying to find him something that will help.  He tried Oxygen for the first time tonight, thanks to the kindness of a new friend. Smiley
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #10 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 9:49am
 
Hello. My question is when you go with Kudzu 1000mg 2 per day are you looking for a daily total of 2000mg?? same with the Mag 250mg 2 per for a total of 500mg daily ????Let me know. Coach Bill
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #11 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:40am
 
coach_bill wrote on Jan 8th, 2009 at 9:49am:
Hello. My question is when you go with Kudzu 1000mg 2 per day are you looking for a daily total of 2000mg?? same with the Mag 250mg 2 per for a total of 500mg daily ????Let me know. Coach Bill

Hello Coach Bill,

Thanks for the post.

You've got it right - I use two 1000 mg capsules of Kudzu per day; one in the morning, one at bedtime for a total of 2000 mg per day.  Similarly, two 250 mg magnesium tablets per day; one in the morning and one at bedtime for a total of 500 mg per day.  Same idea with the St. John's wort.  I only take the melatonin and skullcap in the evening out of concern that they might cause drowsiness.  No guarantee that this is the absolute optimum dosing, but it works for me, 100%.  Same for quite a few other folks.

Hope you'll give it a try & post your results!

GL & Best regards,
Jim
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Jim
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If "that which does not kill me, makes me stronger", then how come I always feel like $hit after every near-death experience?
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #12 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:06am
 
Just a quick thought - for those with sensitive GI systems, this is a pretty tough regime.  But including calcium at half the mg of the magnesium will help a little.

Laurie
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #13 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:26am
 
Garys_Girl wrote on Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:06am:
Just a quick thought - for those with sensitive GI systems, this is a pretty tough regime.  But including calcium at half the mg of the magnesium will help a little.
Laurie

Laurie,

This is not a "tough regime" at all.  The magnesium might cause some diarrhea in some people, but I will gladly trade my (historical) three-month cluster cycle twice a year for a week's worth of the runs any day, and I think most any other CH would, too!  Roll Eyes

I agree with you on the calcium, and it's been discussed on the other thread.  I now use a magnesium/calcium/zinc supplement instead of plain Mg, just in the interest of balancing out these nutrients.

Regards,
Jim
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #14 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:38am
 
I'm the supporter, not the one suffering - but was simply relating Gary's experience with the Kudzu.  If he'd gotten more relief from it than he did, I'm sure he'd go with the intense gut pain and constant liquid diarrhea (he's chronic, not episodic).  Perhaps if he'd included the other ingredients of the "Synergy" mix he'd have seen more relief than he did in his cluster activity - but the kudzu was extremely difficult for him.

I was just responding to your idea to impart info in this thread, and the calcium hadn't been mentioned yet.

Laurie  Smiley
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #15 - Jan 9th, 2009 at 9:40am
 
Garys_Girl wrote on Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:38am:
I'm the supporter, not the one suffering - but was simply relating Gary's experience with the Kudzu.  If he'd gotten more relief from it than he did, I'm sure he'd go with the intense gut pain and constant liquid diarrhea (he's chronic, not episodic).  Perhaps if he'd included the other ingredients of the "Synergy" mix he'd have seen more relief than he did in his cluster activity - but the kudzu was extremely difficult for him.

I was just responding to your idea to impart info in this thread, and the calcium hadn't been mentioned yet.

Laurie  Smiley

Laurie,

Thank you for your response!

Is Gary sure that the symptoms he experienced were due to kudzu???  I'm a little puzzled by the "intense gut pain and constant liquid diarrhea".  One of the traditional (Chinese) uses for kudzu is in the treatment of diarrhea and dysentery.  Personally, I have a bit of chronic digestive trouble, and find the kudzu helps rather than hurts.  Of course, it's possible for someone to be sensitive (or allergic) to just about anything.

Is it possible that Gary was suffering from a bug or something, or taking something else that caused his problem, and mistakenly attributed it to kudzu?  It would be a shame if he's avoiding the kudzu if he really doesn't need to!

Anyway, thanks again for contributing, and please keep checking in with any updates on Gary's experiences.

Regards,
Jim

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Jim
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #16 - Jan 9th, 2009 at 5:10pm
 
There was a lot of "talk" re: Kudzu in 2005 and 2006 - when I joined the board there was an active thread on it.  A lot of people tried it, and it worked or helped quite a number!  But it did make a lot of people gassy - and worse.  The thread I found discussing side effects isn't long, but it makes the point that Gary wasn't alone in his experience.  I'm sure it hit him worse because his GI system is shot (he's got "IBS" - meaning, they don't know what the problem is).  But he was on nothing else other than Protonix, and it was the first med he tried for CH - hadn't even seen a neuro yet. Diagnosed him through the board.  Smiley

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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #17 - Jan 14th, 2009 at 1:04pm
 
hi, this is all alien to me, is the synergy mix a mixture of melontin , magnesium and other natural substances ?sorry
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #18 - Jan 14th, 2009 at 7:02pm
 
What is being used is in the quote portion of the first post.  It is several different over-the-counter herbals, the magnesium, and melatonin.  It based on the current understanding (so far) of the science and biology/chemistry of clusters and headaches.

Laurie
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #19 - Jan 18th, 2009 at 3:35pm
 
Hi again, All,

Here's a 'reprint' from a post back in August giving a little more background on the regimen:

Quote:
I don't claim a rigorous scientific process for deriving the ingredients, or the dosages, of this treatment, but here are a few of the factors that influenced it:

For starters, the "high doses" of Kudzu are down right miniscule - many Chinese routinely consume kudzu root about like we eat potatoes.  A serving of a couple or three ounces (84,000 mg) would not be an unusual side dish to a meal.  I can' get too concerned about 1000 mg vs. 150 mg.  The real reason I chose 1000 mg for my formula is that when I first found kudzu in the store, it was 1000 mg capsules that I found.  I says to myself, "Self, that sounds about right..."

The "additional stuff" was not tacked on, it was part of my holistic (using the term loosely) approach to fighting CH.  I did a pretty good bit of research on anecdotal evidence about sucesses that people had reported.  A couple of the ingredients, I already had some experience with - I have learned that my body, for whatever reason, has some difficulty assimilating calcium properly.  There's considerable evidence that a lack of magnesium will interfere with calcium absorption so, when I saw that some folks had reported that magnesium helped prevent or abort CH, I says to myself, "Self, put some magnesium in the formula..."

You might recall a few years ago melatonin hit the news as a sort of miracle dietary supplement.  All kinds of claims were made for it, including that it would prevent cancer and heart disease, lower blood pressure, reverse aging, etc., etc., etc.  It was also touted as a very effective sleep aid.  I tried it back then and sure enough, it really is a very effective sleep aid!  When I saw that there seemed to be a connection between sleep disturbances and CH, I says to myself, "Self, you oughtta put some melatonin in the formula."  Several people had reported sucess with about 10 mg or so at bedtime, so even though that is many times more than I had ever tried before, I figured it was a good number to go with.  That was reinforced by the fact that I found 5 mg tablets in the store, making a 10 mg dose pretty simple!   Some interesting trivia about melatonin - Believe it or not, a tiny dose (say, 1/2 mg or so) will actually help you sleep better than a large dose, like the 10 mg in my formula.  I dunno why - I just know it's so.

As for the other ingredients, the St. John's Wort and the Skullcap - These are both recognized as anti-anxiety or antidepressent herbs.  It became obvious to me while reading up on CH that stress plays a part in CH.  Some report that stress triggers a cycle.  Others report that the removal, or sudden reduction in stress triggers a cycle.  We all know that a CH, a shadow, an impending cycle, or fear of CH can sure contribute to stress.  These two ingredients (according to the prevailing 'wisdom') seem to "level out" the body/mind stress mechanism, and help people deal better with stress.  So, I says to myself, "Self, you oughtta put some of this stuff in there, too."  The dosages I arrived at were based more on what was commercially available in capsules or tablets than anything else.

After I pulled all this info together, and bought all the stuff at the store(s), I took my first dose one night just before bed, a couple of weeks into a cycle, and continued the morning / night doses as Cyndi described.  I had about three more HA's over the next week, then was pf for six months.  The next time I had a CH, I went back on the regimen for a week, and had NO more headaches.

One detail I probably should reiterate - I am a pretty big guy, at about 215 pounds.  Someone of average or smaller size might do just fine with smaller amounts of the ingredients.  Ask me why I don't try smaller dosages, or see if I can eliminate some of the ingredients from the treatment, and I'm just going to say, "WTF - I beat the !#@#% HA's, why should I change anything??? After 16 years, I'm pf and loving it!!!  Don't just take my word for it - ask Cyndi and Lorne

Just as an aside, the "Super Snooze" has three of my ingredients in it - the melatonin, skullcap, and magnesium, although all of these are in considerably smaller doses that I'm using.  A "Super Snooze" along with a little St. John's Wort and some kudzu just might do the trick for some people - who knows?

Anyway, there's a little insight into my thought processes, and how I came up with the formula - FWIW!!!


This post was in response to a poster who believed that the mix was "high doses of Kudzu with some other stuff tacked on".  I took issue with that description (and still do), as I believe that the effectiveness of this treatment lies in the synergistic effects of the different ingredients working together.  I think that anyone who tries to figure out "which ingredient" is the key is asking the wrong question.

I have edited the old post slightly for clarity and brevity.

I will elaborate a little more when I get a chance.  In the mean time, if you haven't tried this therapy, I strongly urge you to check it out.

Best regards,
Jim
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Jim
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #20 - Jan 24th, 2009 at 12:18pm
 
I started this mix this week, and wanted to share the results so far.  Because of the other stuff I'm taking and what not, I wanted to give it some context.  Also, it's interesting to note that I'm the LAST person to try supplements like this for anything.  Just one of those "bah humbug, if the FDA hasn't tried it out, I'm not going to try it" types.  But, as we all know the Beast can make believers out of the most devout skeptics Wink

So, my clusters usually come on for four weeks, on an average of two years apart.  This one started january 3.  I got on verapamil and a prednisone series straight away, as those have helped mitigate them in the past.  I also stocked up on the Imitrex nasal sprays and injections.

That worked fine for the first couple weeks.  This last week, into week three of the cluster, I started a HA Monday night and it would not leave.  It'd spike up to a K7/K8 overnight once I fell asleep, and maybe mellow down to a K3 in the day, but would not go away entirely.  Got some Imitrex injections which helped a little more (even though I have to overdose on them up to three shots' worth to feel an effect), but still had the constant shadowing in the background.  In desperation, I had my doctor Rx me cafergot, which used to work for me before I tried the Imitrex, and he also suggested me taking clonasepam - a muscle relaxant to help me sleep and reduce the heavy knotted muscles around my neck and shoulders which could be sparking new HAs - as well as a high dose of vicodin to see if that would take any edge off the pain (which I know can be a trigger and cause more issues, but has never had such an effect on me).

So, in a brief window of near-wellness while going to pick up the vicodin and the clonazepam (they were out of the cafergot, so I have yet to pick that up), I ran out and gathered up these pills (took three different stores to find the Kudzu and Scullcap -finally found them at New Seasons market).  I took a daytime dose that afternoon, and the nighttime dose that evening, along with the clonazepam.  That night was the first time I slept through the night in days.  I did wake up at 5 or so with a K4,  but one shot of the Imitrex nasal spray took it away enough within a half hour, enough to go back to sleep.  I woke around 9 or 930 feeling pretty doped up, but no HA.  After a little bit, around 11, I got hit with a K4, just peaking to a K5, but another nasal spray and just listening quietly to the radio for an hour, and it was gone.

That was Thursday, and that was the last HA I've had.  Not even a shadow since.  And sleeping sound through the night and for someone who gets hit in his sleep more often than not, that's huge..

Now, it's not the best scientific study or anything, especially as at the same time i started this mix, I also started the clonzepam and the vicodin, but I can't imagine either could really help my HA *that* much, expecially for the nighttime hits.

My Prednisone series ends in four more days.  My cluster is "due" to be over in seven days.  I'll keep this herb mix going along with the verapail for three more weeks to see what happens.  It certainly seems to me to have helped.  If this keeps up, and I've had the last >K3 of this cluster, then not only am I tattooing this recipe to my arm to never forget it, but I'm also researching how to nominate Kilowatt3 for a Nobel Prize, a Genius Grant, Kennedy Center Honor, and will organize a committee to name a local high school after him.  Cheesy
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« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2009 at 12:22pm by aj »  
 
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kevmd
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #21 - Jan 24th, 2009 at 11:36pm
 
I Will chime in very early to my experiment.  So far, its working.  I have slept throught the night 2 nights in a row.  I am at a day and a half with o hits but some shadows.  One shadow was fairly heavy.  Seems to be improving steadily.  I will update my conditiion
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #22 - Jan 24th, 2009 at 11:55pm
 
Kev, how far into this cluster are you and how bad has it been so far (up to when you started in on this mix)?
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #23 - Jan 25th, 2009 at 12:06am
 
I was about 7-10 days into the cycle.  It hasn't been as bad.  The intensity of my attacks were down significantly.  Possibly due to quitting smoking.  But the frequency of my  attacks were speeding up faster than normal.  Usually my first week is fairly quiet.  But I had a few night of 2 plus attacks waking me up


It took about 3 days before I felt any effect from this.  I should be keeping a diary but its already too late for me to remember everything
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Re: Synergy - A Very Effective Mix
Reply #24 - Jan 25th, 2009 at 1:53pm
 
Hi Jim,

This post is really interesting me. I have read about most of the remedies over a few years and it seems that there are mixed results.

I want to try the formula. I am a bit worried about conflict with allopathic medicines. I am currently on verapamil 360mg a day, Predisilione 40 mg per day finishing in 2 days, Sumatriptan nasal spray as needed - 20ml shot once a day over the last 3 days and of course O2. My pain levels are 2 to 3 all of the time and if I miss time the sumatriptan i.e. outside 6 or 7 then 8,9 and somtimes 10.

I am not sure how far I am into my cycle. I'm down from 8 hits a day to one. My cycle usually lasts 6 weeks once yearly This year (summer 08 to now) it's come twice.

Sorry if I have rambled on, I am trying be informative. The point though is the conflict and what to be careful about.

Thanks,

Ellick
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