Hey Batch good buddy put em right on the smoke.


          Potter

Quote:
K-10's over the long term can be harmful as well.
So can all the other pharmaceuticals we have to take.

Pick your own poison.
thebb

It's an interesting article. I have the following options:

Bear Kip 10's.....yeah right.

Use 2 imitrex injections twice a day......Oh Kaiser will go for that..

Use my 02 and worry that my already screwed up Hypothalamus might not like it for the 6-8 mnutes I'm on it.....

As John so eloquently put it...(Yeah John by accident you are occasionally eloquent)..we pick our poisons.

I am curious as to how this study compares to our jet fighter pilots who breathe pure 02 for several hours at a time on a regular basis while on missions, many, like Batch, over a span of many many years, and yet no study has shown a significant decline in their physical well being as a result. It's an interesting study but will in no way change my approach to CH

Guiseppi

BarbaraD wrote on Oct 19^th, 2008 at 3:14pm:

There, fixed it for ya 
I was thinking the same thing 

I think that my point was missed,. or intentionally avoided.

    As I said, I have nothing against O2.... People tend to automatically think herbs and other "natural" (nonprescription) remedies are harmless, this is not always so. IF there might be harmfull effects from using pure O2, those using it should be informed.
   
     The point of my origional post was to inspire others to research and find supporting or contridictory data. Not to put down O2.
   
    Unfortunately,  there are those on this message board who subscribe to one point of view and ridicule those who don't. I say this not to attack but to inform. I have received PMs from some who do not post in fear of ridicule. That, my friends, is a shame.
There are many out there that don't understand the politics of such a forum.

     I, quite frankly, don't care to engage in such discourse. I didn't anticipate that on this forum, but where there is people there is politics. The only reason that I do stay is for those that are genuinely  seeking information and help. My intentions are good. My want is to help. My beast is caged....

   I , personally, feel that those who insist on close mindedness and ridicule are a detriment to this help forum. The makers of this forum did a great thing in its' creation. I would hate to see it ruined. To squelch anyones ideas or their willingness to post freely, will ruin this forum.

   Potter, and those of his ilk, seem to be determined to stifle the flow of information. If they succeed in chasing me and those like me off of this forum, then they will have won. Their ego will be even more inflated. Unfortunately, those in search of real answers, will have lost.

I wish PFDs to All ( even Potter)

Jim

        

Hey Jim,

I read your post and understand 100% that you were just sharing with us an article that you came across (and not trying to tell anyone what to do).....I appreciate that and thank you.....Lenny

I can understand why you wanted everyone to know about this... Though, I don't think anyone who the O2 works for is going to pay much mind to it.

Good for the long term, and short term: Me staying alive and using O2.
Bad for the long term: Me killing myself due to a K10 that oxygen would have helped.

It's not a hard choice for me to make for me at least. Like I said, I can understand why you posted it. If I found something horrible about any preventative, abortive, or anything we use frequently with this, I'd post it for everyone too.

Speaking as someone who watches this happen to the only one who ever got my soul: sometimes quality of life is the choice we have, over quantity. I'm for picking our poisons (utterly catchy phrase coin, btw)...at least in the interim...we live. He LIVES. That's something worth anything.

There are things worse than death. Not treating this condition & not seeking out all available options is one of them, screw the whatifs & maybes & conjectural or imperical analysis of data. Seeing him in that...state...if we didn't take the meds or the ox or the whatever we experiment with...if there wasn't SOMETHING. That would be worse than knowing maybe his life is shortened someday because of soemthing we tried. At least we tried. At least maybe someone else some day doesn't have this...gets cured. THAT is something. Just a thought...and now...off to the races.

Izzy wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 2:26am:


I have to disagree.

There's a reason to why we suffer from these headaches. We don't still know that reason. It's extremely important that people try to analyse the issue and find out the reason. Imperical analysis of data is a big point in seeking out all the available options. I still get very surprised by some who, for example, come here and continue using meds with very bad adverse side-effects given their current state of health. One such example would be triptans and Verapamil after heart-attacks. Such occasions make me worry that the meds will kill the person involved before long, which I think is a very high price to pay for a small beneficial effect that the meds involved might have. And often it seems that the meds can make the quality of life much worse, with the psychological and physical side-effects like excessive tiredness, cognitive slowing, hair loss, feeling doped-up, having very bad mood changes, aggression, and so on and so on.

I can understand that your husband is in pain and that it's very hard to watch. I don't mean any disrespect with my post nor do I mean this as a personal attack against the you or anyone else. I can also understand that we are willing to try out nearly anything to make the pain go away. I know I did and I still haven't exhausted all of my options.

I personally see all of you as my family. It's a big word, but true for a lot of us. This family has helped me and a lot of other folks SO very much and I'm extremely thankful for that.

Being so, being personally attacked by that family is very hard for a lot of people. First they find the only people who understand them and then they get slapped into the face, figuratively speaking. It feels like betrayal and certainly doesn't serve any positive purpose. It will only make the life even more difficult for some of us, which don't have the psychological strength to fight the neuralgia and the family.

Some of us and the people who come here can be in a lot of pain. That sometimes makes us very blunt, irritated and short of nerves. Sometimes in the midst of all this it can be difficult to think clearly. I hope that a lot of people would keep this in mind before writing angry or condescending retorts, what I sometimes see here.

My best regards and pain-free wishes to all of you,
Rosa

When I read this article I'm left with more questions than caution.  The author states:
Quote:

Without specifying what those harmful effects are or how they are harmful.  I realize that this is a dumbing down of the info for public consumption.  Maybe someone can dig up the technical details and distill them for us laymen   

The context of the study is resuscitation of patients that have suffered a heart attack or other malady which has stopped their breathing function.  This creates a dire need for Oxygen to reach the heart and brain quickly.  Anything that impedes this process would be deemed 'harmful'. 

In the context of cluster headache, this work tells me more than I knew about how Oxygen aborts a cluster headache attack.  I believe that the fact that O2 Therapy has such a profound effect on the Hypothalamus is significant.  This flood of 'harmful' chemicals is only 'harmful' when the patient is already Oxygen deprived. 

A cluster head having an attack is not in an oxygen deprived state.  For us, the effect is pain relief.  Remember, the current research points to a malfunction of the Hypothalamus as the causes of our pain in the first place.  Who is to say in our case, this action doesn’t reset the Hypothalamus to a more normal functional state.  I’ll leave that determination to the researchers.  This is just my speculation and my hope.

-Dennis-

Perhaps we should disregard and attack this report, too. Everyone knows we have been using Verapamil for years and it works!
===============================

Source: American Academy of Neurology
Date: August 13, 2007
More on: Headache Research, Headaches, Pharmacology, Heart Disease, Diseases and Conditions, Vioxx

Drug For Cluster Headaches May Cause Heart Problems
Science Daily — A drug increasingly used to prevent cluster headaches can cause heart problems, according to a study published in the August 14, 2007, issue of Neurology®, the medical journal of the American Academy of Neurology. Those taking the drug verapamil for cluster headaches should be closely monitored with frequent electrocardiograms (EKGs) for potential development of irregular heartbeats.

Cluster headache is a rare, severe form of headache that is more common in men. The attacks usually occur in cyclical patterns, with frequent attacks over weeks or months generally followed by a period of remission when the headaches stop.

"The benefit of taking verapamil to alleviate the devastating pain of cluster headaches has to be balanced against the risk of causing a heart abnormality that could progress into a more serious problem," said study author Peter Goadsby, MD, PhD, DSc, of the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery in Queen Square, London, UK, and the University of California, San Francisco and a member of the American Academy of Neurology.

The study involved 108 people with an average age of 44. The participants started taking verapamil and then had an EKG and an increase in the dosage of the drug every two weeks until the headaches were stopped or they started having side effects.

A total of 21 patients, or 19 percent, had problems with the electrical activity of the heart, or irregular heartbeats, while taking the drug. Most of the cases were not considered serious; however, one person required a permanent pacemaker due to the problem. A total of 37 percent of the participants had slower than normal heart rates while on the drug, but the condition was severe enough to warrant stopping the use of the drug in only four cases.

Goadsby noted that 217 people taking the drug were initially supposed to take part in the study, but 42 percent of them did not have the EKGs done to monitor their heart activity. "Many of them said either they or their local services were reluctant to undertake such frequent tests, or they were not aware of the need for the heart monitoring," he said. "Since this drug is relatively new for use in cluster headaches, it's possible that some health care providers are not aware of the problems that can come with its use."

Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by American Academy of Neurology.

Linda_Howell wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 10:57pm:


Yes, you are correct. I am new to this forum.

I think most would agree that it would be impractical for me to read though 10 years of posts.

When I came across this article, and hadn't remembered reading anything about it on this forum , I thought I'd post ref. to it. (notice that I did apologize if it was a repeat post) I felt that if I hadn't heard about it then there may be others who hadn't heard about it. I also didn't post it as fact. I posted it as a point of interest for the well informed, intelligent  people on this forum, to help them make their  own decisions.

'Cause when it comes down to it, we each are responsible for making our own decisions.

From a newcommers point of view to see a post ridiculed, that was simply an attempt to share information,  is quite distasteful.

As far as the other meds, you are correct there as well. I would NEVER suggest, recommend, incourage or demand that anyone come off of O2 for any reason. And definately would not in favor of any med.

I have on mulitple occasions said that Verap. has saved my life. It did concern me though that I had to have an EKG every time my doseage was modified. I got off of Verap., and all the other meds that the docs had me on, as soon as I could.

I am a firm believer of free information exchange. I will continue to research and if I find some information, that I think others like me might be interested in,  I will post it. If you disagree with my post.... That's fine....No one will be offended if you read it and either ignore it or post a respectful response. The whole purpose of information exchange is for one person to post information or a point of view and another to either support or contradict in a constructive fashion.

PFDs to All

Jim