Thanks Rocky

I'd like to comment on the comments.

Its good to see the recognition for CH by others, unfortunately they still dont understand our needs.

Most sufferers have no desire to attain a high from the RC seed treatment and the reality on doses is between 12 to 35 seeds. 20 would probably be an average.

Everyone will be affected a bit differently with these seeds so be carefull out there. Its also important to read the LSA warnings on the clusterbusters.com site.

Used as a treatment for CH the high effect is nil if taken with care.

Yes you can get high with them just as you can with pharmacy drugs, but what most of us want is to just rid ourselves of the clusters.
Personally I have found that the minimum effective dose is far lower than what they suggest and possibly more effective for treating clusters than a higher dose of seeds.
At the lower doses no high occurs at all, just a cessation of CH.

Secondly it is absolutely not neccesary to soak in wine as yes this may increase the effects but for many clusterheads wine is a terrific trigger. In fact it is necessary to crush the seeds but not necessary to soak them, you could simply dissove them under your tongue once crushed. If soaking is preffered then an ounce or 2 of water works fine, soaked for about 2 hours. Start with warm, not hot and let them sit. As I understand it no further hydrolysis of LSA occurs much after that.

Thirdly if consciousness expansion and colorfull insights are desired then these Rivea Corymbosa seeds are not the answer for that at any dose level in my opinion.

Taken properly many, many clusterheads are living their lives pain free or largely so. Often on single doses with no further medication needed. A few dose as often as just once a month to keep the beast at bay with zero side effects like might be experienced with prescribed drugs wich are taken up to 4 times a day.
More frequent dosing may be required to literally bust a set cycle.

RC Seeds are the most effective treatment I have ever found.

Need the skinny here-  not sure if I should start a new thread?

I am seriously thinking of ordering RC Seeds .  Heres my questions- I am a step by step kind of gal- I know bits and pieces have been posted many a time here, but I kind of need it in one spot - 

1.  If I am not in cycle , should I start dosing monthly anyway?  If so , how much and how often?

2.  When I start a cycle,  how much and when?

3.  What is the recommendation of when to redose in cycle if you are still getting hit? and then how much , how often etc.

4.  Should I expect for the entire cycle to possibly be aborted after dosing when a cycle starts? 

5.  About how long does it take after you dose for cycle to peter out?

6.  Does it get worse before it gets better after you dose while in cycle?  meaning should I expect to get hit hard for a couple of days after dosing and then expect it to taper off? 

7.  Are the breakthrough hits after dosing lower on kip scale?

8.  Any hangover effects the next am?

9.  What is better RC or HBR?

10.  How often does anyone have to use triptans to abort after dosing?



Feel free to PM or tell me to start a new thread-  Thanks for the advice in advance!

Kelly

Not sure I'm the one to answer these questions. There are many here with more scientific and knowledgable minds. I'll give it a go though.

Remember this that there is no medical or governmental association that will support these methods or the use thereof. So if anyone decides to use the RC seeds does so at their own risk.

Clusterbusters.com has some good information and warnings to read and it is reccomended that an internet search on ololiuqui is done to ascertain any further information on its medicinal use through the ages. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or

The answers are an opinion and not real science as that doesnt exist publically yet for these treatments. You are essentially self medicating and only you know if its the way to go. There are no doctors to quide you but many experienced users of this alt. med exist here and on clusterbusters.com and can provide some experiencial input when asked.

1.  If I am not in cycle , should I start dosing monthly anyway?  If so , how much and how often?

A. Not neccesarily. As clusterheads most of us can recognize the basic pre-symptoms of a cycle to come. This is probably the best time to dose with RC seeds as it is then that the best chances to abort the entire cycle happens.
As stated on the CB site its best to start with the lowest dose possible. (8-12 seeds) This is to test for safety and how the seeds may affect you. If no adverse effects then its probably ok to up your dose to 15- 25 seeds in a few days.

2.  When I start a cycle,  how much and when?

A. We are all different therefore the answer to that question cannot be assumed. One must first find their own effective dose.
An average dose is between 15-25 seeds while in cycle. Some find good results with just 8-12 seeds.

3.  What is the recommendation of when to redose in cycle if you are still getting hit? and then how much , how often etc.

A. The standard reccomendation is to wait 5-7 days between dosing. To my knowledge this was due to the "closed door effect". That is the point where it was thought the serotonin or 5ht receptors were closed off by the LSA and no futher effect can be felt from the medication until the original dose wore off.
I have found it ok to dose again within say 24 hours with no further need for suffering if the hits return. Though I have dosed more often, as close as 8 hours apart, I dont reccomend it unless your getting hit very hard.

4.  Should I expect for the entire cycle to possibly be aborted after dosing when a cycle starts?

No and yes . This is where we are all different. Once you have found your effective dose you should be aware of some fairly immediate changes in your CH. Some never dose again others may require several doses.

5.  About how long does it take after you dose for cycle to peter out?

A. Again we are all different and it would also depend on the severity and frequency of the hits.
My opinion is that a balancing act must occur in the chemicals in your body/mind. Too little LSA and too little results. Too much LSA may have an adverse effect as well. THis opinion is often disputed.

6.  Does it get worse before it gets better after you dose while in cycle?  meaning should I expect to get hit hard for a couple of days after dosing and then expect it to taper off?

A. If you feel the need to wait 7 days before dosing again you will probably get hit. But generally no harder than before the seeds. A few hours pain free allways makes the next hit feel harder.
If you heed your own symptoms you can often abort an attack with just a few seeds (once the treatment has begun) dissolved and ready or place a pinch under the tongue to dissolve and within 5-15 minutes the attack could be gone.

7.  Are the breakthrough hits after dosing lower on kip scale?

A. More often than not.

8.  Any hangover effects the next am?

A. Yes if you look very hard for them. A slight energy loss may occur.

9.  What is better RC or HBR?

Though I know very little about HBWR seeds, there are large advantages to RC Seeds. Generally no gastro-intestinal discomfort occurs with the RC seeds and none of the other uncomfortable feelings that may come with HBWR. Others can input on that.

10.  How often does anyone have to use triptans to abort after dosing?

Can't remember now but I believe LSA is a tryptophan. Never ever mix triptans, tryptophans.
If an abort is neccessry than a small dose of seeds or Oxygen if it works for you is the best way to abort.

MJ-

thanks alot for taking the time to answer my questions.  It's great to have it all captured in one place - I am going to print it off- 


Kelly

Nice job MJ.

A couple of notes of interest.
Soaking in a couple ounces of water, for an hour or two, is all that is needed. One problem with these seeds is that there can be a wide difference in the amounts of LSA, from seed to seed. The doses (numbers of seeds) that are discussed, are based upon the assumption that the seeds *you* have are at the high end of the spectrum. So, it is possible that you may take a dose and feel very little, if your seeds have a low concentration of LSA. DO NOT assume that your seeds are low in content and up the dose. You very well may have seeds with a high content and you really don't need, or want, to exceed the doses that are discussed.
Start low and work your way up, if needed.

IMHO, the HBWR seeds are just as effective, and if prepared properly, do not have more negative side effects. The difference is that the RC seeds are crushed and soaked whole, including the husk. They are similar in size to poppy seeds, just slightly larger. The HBWR seeds are larger, (pea sized) and have a harder husk. This husk must be cracked or cut open and the pulp inside is removed, crushed, and soaked. The gastrointestinal problems, as well as other possible problems, come mostly from the substances found in the husk.

Once you begin any of the treatments using psychedelics, the aim is to completely avoid any of the triptans. Number one, they shouldn't be combined, as MJ noted. Two, for best results in breaking the cycle, stopping the triptans, before, during and after, is important.

Best to treat any remaining attacks with 02. Most people find that once the triptans have been stopped, and after the first dose of psychedelics, all that is needed is 02 for the attacks that remain. Most attacks that follow will hopefully be both less intense and shorter in duration. Many people that had poor success with 02 in the past, find that it works very well in aborting any remaining hits.

Bobw

Awesome MJ. Now that is why I come here. Ten deep bows. Thank you for that response.
Quote:


Your modesty confirms your character.
all the best
thebb

I have been considering seeds as well.  This thread has been very helpful.  Just one question though.  Do RC seeds carry with them the risk of dependency?  I'm guessing no, since they are not used to obtain a high.  Just wondered if you all knew for sure though.

Thank you!

Jeannie

Jeannie,

No, no dependency.

I began taking a monthly "maintenance" dose of 11 to 12 seeds before my cycle was due.

Then, cycle came and I dosed with 35 seeds, and another 35 seeds five days later.  Knocked the cycle completely out,

Even with 35 seeds, I've not experienced any "high", it just makes me sleepy.

I've since stopped taking the monthly 12 seed dose, relying that, should a CH cycle try to start, hitting it with the 35 seed dose kills the cycle.  This appears to be working just fine.

The very low dose of rc seeds we take to combat CH is not enough to create a dependency.

Sandy

I'm curious about the detox period.  I'm in the middle of a particularly nasty bout, and I've stopped taking the verapamil and the lithium, but I still use imitrex for the acute attacks (at least one dose a day).  I'm trying to stick to using only O2 but, well, pain sucks so I reach for the syringe every now and then.

My question is:  What is the minimum amount of time one should take between an imitrex shot and dosing on RC seeds?  I'm very keen to try this as I haven't had a PF day since August 12.

Do the "RC" seeds lose their strength over time?
Seeds are 14 months old.
Ive been getting hit like crazy.
30 seeds five days apart no help  .
Maybe I should try again...............life really sucks again.........

They make those little packets that eat O2 (the ones they put in beef jerky to keep it fresh) that would probably help in the indol ring break down which is most likely the cause of time vs potency. (just a wild thought)

Rolo..

l'll chime in with my 2 cents.  Most important thing to remember when detoxing.......DO IT SLOWLY.  Trying to rush through it in order to take your first dose, could prove to be a big problem.  Think about it....your taking say, lithium and verapamil for years.  Suddenly you stop.  Your body is not going to adjust as quick as you would like it to,
TAKE YOUR TIME AND BE PATIENT.

I am glad someone brought up the age of your seeds.  I am beginning to wonder if mine are losing effectiveness as well

Getting a high..........never felt even a hint of a high. 

And one more thing....I agree with the soaking in only 2 oz.  These things taste like shit.  The less water, the better