Hi all,

I am a cluster headache sufferer and I know this is going to sound very weird, but I have recently been having a lot of success putting Cayenne Pepper up my nose on the side of my head that I have the cluster.

I have only just started my cycle about 10 days ago but I have found that the Cayenne Pepper is actually aborting the headaches, and in some cases preventing them enough where I am only being woken up once through the night instead of 6 - 7 times with a cluster.

I just wanted to get this out there because as a sufferer I will so anything to help anyone, these headaches are a living hell!

Not too weird, there is actually some science behind it and it has been tried by some here. However, I think you are the first I heard of who has been happy with the results. Most report it as primarily a distraction not a pain reliever. Good on you for giving it a try, and better that it is working for you.

If you google cayenne pepper and capsicum, there are a boatload of studies going on regarding their use as a pain killer among many other uses. I wouldn't be suprised to see something eventually developed that assists a larger number of CH'ers. For now, in its most basic form, few seem to be getting much help from it.

Hope your success continues, pain free time rocks. Please spend some time perusing the board in case it stops working, you'll have a wider knowledge of prevents and aborts to do battle with.

Joe

How do you get it up your nose?  That may seem like a strange question, but, really, how much is enough or too much, and do you use a straw or put a little pinch between your thumb and index finger like you're sniffing snuff?  Something different?  Also, how long is it taking from snort to abort? 

    Bullshit.

    Potter

Potter wrote on Oct 13^th, 2012 at 4:57pm:

Bullshit.     Potter

As usual not gentle or politically correct... but spot on.
Every board needs at least one Potter.

I will have to disagree...these are just a few of the links I described above...


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Remember when the mushroom people first showed up here and everybody demanded they be tarred and feathered and kicked off the board? I for one refuse to be automatically close minded to anything that could potentially help people. There is too much solid science and research behind the pain killing properties to just dismiss it out of hand.

Joe

Guiseppi wrote on Oct 13^th, 2012 at 7:41pm:

I will have to disagree...these are just a few of the links I described above... START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE Remember when the mushroom people first showed up here and everybody demanded they be tarred and feathered and kicked off the board? I for one refuse to be automatically close minded to anything that could potentially help people. There is too much solid science and research behind the pain killing properties to just dismiss it out of hand. Joe

Actually no Joe I don't remember that.  What I remember was snortin Cayenne pepper and bein in way more misery than I started with.  On the other hand I ate the shrooms and am now 3000 days + or- pain free.  I don't toss an important word such as bullshit around lightly.

     Potter

This must be the new test for possible therapies. If it doesn't work for Potter, it's bullshit.

AussieBrian wrote on Oct 13^th, 2012 at 8:26pm:

This must be the new test for possible therapies. If it doesn't work for Potter, it's bullshit.

Pay me and I'll snort cayenne pepper again.  I'll be sure and document my findings.

             Potter

Well Potter, I guess they told us! I think I'll go out right away and get a hole drilled in my skull and electrodes implanted deep in my brain, a non-reversible surgery that may kill you. Hell, some people have had it work, sort of, for a little while anyway!
Maybe not BS in the science, but certainly in the application. Everyone has to decide where they draw the line... and what is BS.

Guiseppi wrote on Oct 12^th, 2012 at 4:07pm:

Hope your success continues, pain free time rocks. Please spend some time perusing the board in case it stops working, you'll have a wider knowledge of prevents and aborts to do battle with.

This would be my impression, our systems adapt.


I can remember my first cigarette after the cough, cough, cough.  "I think I got a buzz from it".  The coughing didn't last, or the buzz.

My first beer or shot - exhilarating or calming.  That didn't last, who's counting.

The first bar-b-que chips were hot.  Now we've jalapeno chips in jalapeno dip.

A new toothpaste tastes fruity.  A couple of days later it's just toothpaste.

A skinned knee hurt more than anything.  Now we've bruises and blood dripping and wonder where that happened.

Bare feet on hot pavement was ouchy in July.  By mid-August it's not a thought.




CH may back off for awhile, but it may hurdle the threat to its presence.  Who's counting, more pepper, but it may become just a cow on the railroad tracks.

Potter wrote on Oct 13^th, 2012 at 4:57pm:

Bullshit.     Potter

Smells like it to me.  Nooooo way and hell am I going to do a line of Cayanne.  May as well spray some mace in my eyes while I'm at it.

I do remember a few years ago, there was a guy on here (I don't remember his screen name) touting massive doses of vitamin D, and many poo-pooed him, myself included.

Ah, yes. In times gone by. I can remember when first-time posters got chased out of here by the disgraceful manners of a few.

Couldn't happen now, of course.

Not on my watch Brian! ;)

Joe

Unfortunately, with responses like that from Potter we ARE driving people away... >:(

i guess Potter is the cluster god and if it doesn't work for him its bullshit ! learn how to use the board dude ! You have been a member for how long and to come at people who are simply trying to share there experience like that is bullshit if you ask me !this board  its to help people with things that work for them in hopes it will possibly work for others ! Why would anyone want to have you comment on there post with your negativity ! completely uncalled ford ! I am glad that the cayenne pepper is working for you ! kind of a weird thing to try but hey ! when all else fails we have to take things into are own hands ! good luck and lots of pain free days! i would suggest doing a sinus rinse after the attack. I would think its probably not good for that stuff to just sit in your sinuses

Stuff doesn't just sit in your sinuses. Our mucous membrane systems have a way of cleansing themselves.

It's why we have spit, snot, and lung cookies.

lydia nichole wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 3:58pm:

i guess Potter is the cluster god and if it doesn't work for him its bullshit ! learn how to use the board dude ! You have been a member for how long and to come at people who are simply trying to share there experience like that is bullshit if you ask me !this board  its to help people with things that work for them in hopes it will possibly work for others ! Why would anyone want to have you comment on there post with your negativity ! completely uncalled ford ! I am glad that the cayenne pepper is working for you ! kind of a weird thing to try but hey ! when all else fails we have to take things into are own hands ! good luck and lots of pain free days! i would suggest doing a sinus rinse after the attack. I would think its probably not good for that stuff to just sit in your sinuses

Just Zot me.

    Potter

Brew very true, I would just be curious because of how strong that stuff is. I would hate for a risk of a sinus infection, on-top of a CH. I'm not a doctor though. it was just a thought.

I actually just looked it up and cayenne pepper can actually cure a sinus infection. So i stand corrected on that.

Lydia,

With all respect I recommend you go through the archives and check out Potter's posts.  He has been a tremendous encouragement to a lot of people, and has been a major advocate for O2 use, even before it was all that popular.  Then I suggest you look through the archives for all of the newbies with 1-5 posts touting the miraculous results to be obtained from Sinus Buster, which is an overpriced capsacin/cayenne spray that has proved to be much less than successful. 

I agree with Joe that we need to look into the science of the use of Cayenne/Capsacin for pain relief, but snorting it up the nose has been a very short-lived remedy for any that I know of.  In fact, we used to laugh at all of the "less than 10 post cures" that show up on this board and then suddenly disappear.  Over time there may be something successful from Cayenne/Capsacin that is developed scientifically.  I hope so.  We definitely need something else in our arsenal for those of us who have proven to be refractory to everything else, but I'll wait for someone with experience and longevity to bring it to the table before I'll get all excited.

I remember along with Bill when Niels/ Niyas/I don't remember the rest of the names he used proposed Vit D therapy.  He got chased off the board not just because he was proposing something new, but because he was coming on to strong proposing it as a cure without any real background behind it.  He was banned from the board several times and came back under a different name.  It wasn't until someone with a scientific background that was willing to validate some of his claims started looking at it that it started being accepted and has proved quite valuable for many.  The biggest key was the scientific approach to validate the claim, not a one post wonder who has discovered a "cure" so miraculous, but has not had the forethought to look at this board and note the great number of others who have proclaimed the miracle find in post 1.  I must side with Potter.

Jerry

It's well worth re-reading the original post. A first-time poster referring to cayanne pepper (not sinus-buster) as something that helps him and may help others.

Abuse and bad language is no way to welcome a fellow CHead.

AussieBrian wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 5:47am:

It's well worth re-reading the original post. A first-time poster referring to cayanne pepper (not sinus-buster) as something that helps him and may help others. Abuse and bad language is no way to welcome a fellow CHead.

Amen...

That was my take also. A new poster, not tying to sell anything, just recommending what had seemed to provide relief. 2 possible reponses:

BULLSHIT! Along with a colorful photo illustrating said action....

OR,,,

Welcome to the board. I'm glad you've found something that seems to provide relief. Has your doctor suggested A, B, C ,D? Have you tried A, B, C, D?  Are you working with a qualified headache neuro?

Which response is more prone to make a new, scared, confused poster return to the board. Which will drive a new person away. I remember a time when a self proclaimed "KING" of this board would intentionally drive anyone away who had ANY characteristics that didn't 100% match classic CH symptoms. I so hope those days are behind us. It's not about being right, being smartest on your CH knowledge, being the first to spot someone who doesn't have CH. It's about helping people.

"Someone had to say it"........I still think that's just a piss poor excuse to be a bully or just plain mean.

Joe

CDog wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 7:09am:

AussieBrian wrote on Oct 18th, 2012 at 5:47am: It's well worth re-reading the original post. A first-time poster referring to cayanne pepper (not sinus-buster) as something that helps him and may help others. Abuse and bad language is no way to welcome a fellow CHead. Amen...

agreed!

Guiseppi wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 9:10am:

That was my take also. A new poster, not tying to sell anything, just recommending what had seemed to provide relief. 2 possible reponses: BULLSHIT! Along with a colorful photo illustrating said action.... OR,,, Welcome to the board. I'm glad you've found something that seems to provide relief. Has your doctor suggested A, B, C ,D? Have you tried A, B, C, D?  Are you working with a qualified headache neuro? Which response is more prone to make a new, scared, confused poster return to the board. Which will drive a new person away. I remember a time when a self proclaimed "KING" of this board would intentionally drive anyone away who had ANY characteristics that didn't 100% match classic CH symptoms. I so hope those days are behind us. It's not about being right, being smartest on your CH knowledge, being the first to spot someone who doesn't have CH. It's about helping people. "Someone had to say it"........I still think that's just a piss poor excuse to be a bully or just plain mean. Joe

Thanks joe ! i 100% agree. great post ! this is a support group supposed to support fellow sufferers not tell them that what is working for them is bullshit.

By golly such a furor over a word.  Snort some cayenne pepper either during cycle or out,  don't matter.  It's gonna be excruciating(personal experience) and maybe dangerous.  What if you got it into your lungs?  Just surmising here.  Now read the word Bullshit.  Either in or out of cycle don't hurt a bit,  heck it don't even make your eyes water(unless your right down there close thinkin maybe a good snort is what ya need) 


                     Potter

Guiseppi wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 9:10am:

That was my take also. A new poster, not tying to sell anything, just recommending what had seemed to provide relief. 2 possible reponses: BULLSHIT! Along with a colorful photo illustrating said action.... OR,,, Welcome to the board. I'm glad you've found something that seems to provide relief. Has your doctor suggested A, B, C ,D? Have you tried A, B, C, D?  Are you working with a qualified headache neuro? Which response is more prone to make a new, scared, confused poster return to the board. Which will drive a new person away. I remember a time when a self proclaimed "KING" of this board would intentionally drive anyone away who had ANY characteristics that didn't 100% match classic CH symptoms. I so hope those days are behind us. It's not about being right, being smartest on your CH knowledge, being the first to spot someone who doesn't have CH. It's about helping people. "Someone had to say it"........I still think that's just a piss poor excuse to be a bully or just plain mean. Joe

Well said Joseph, you little whipper snapper you. :-*

I just took a two hour bubblebath in lavender bath oil beads to cure my clusters when I stepped out of the tub into a pile BS.

I think Potter put there.  Ruined everything, I have to go soak my head again.






Guiseppi wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 9:10am:

It's about helping people.

I'm not helping anything, am I?            ;)

Well we can coddle these newbies telling them they are doing good... or we can tell it like it is. Personally, I would like to tell him GET SOME FREEK'N OXYGEN MAN!
Again science and application. The anti-inflammatory and pain relieving properties of capsaicin have been known for many years. Many good scientists working on it. And yet, the nature of this substance is not providing anything practical. To get the bang you need, the concentration levels of capsaicin make the substance very painful and sometimes dangerous to handle and use. Removing the heat from the beneficial effects has proven illusive.
Besides the not slamming newbies point, go for it if it works for you, and making the appearance that we all support a treatment that has already been vetted here and dismissed, is hardly what this site is about. Offering something that really works like oxygen is! I can't believe this sh!t storm over someone calling bullsh!t, while no one is asking what else have you tried? In our experience THIS works better and won't cause the discomfort.
Time for a reality check.

Quote:

the nature of this substance is not providing anything practical. To get the bang you need, the concentration levels of capsaicin make the substance very painful and sometimes dangerous to handle and use.

I totally agree with this.  I've heard far too many with negative reports on this not to mention my own...very painful experiments with capsasin.   

There is obviously no reason to be mean on this site...however, if someone with few posts and are very, very new to cluster headaches tells me that breathing 02 made them gain weight for instance, I would have to tell them that is BS and steer them in the right direction about 02. 

We, who have been here a while and have suffered for years, have a duty to newcomers to support as well as give them information that we have gleaned over the years.  We are not here to simply accept every new fangled abort that comes along because SOMEONE  said it worked for them.  Capsacin isn't for everyone that is for sure and can do damage.  I've seen very few who have said it worked for even a short time. 

I promote oxygen.  I KNOW that works.  It has no side effects, it's cheap, and it works for 80% of us. 

Linda

You're missing my point Nolan.

BULLSHIT! You're an idiot.........vs:

That's not a high percentage treatment option, there are options available that provide relief for a much higher percentage of those who try them.

On the one hand, it's fun to get on a pedestal, talk down to someone, let them know you are the all knowing, all wise, omnipotent font of CH wisdom, and they are scum not worthy to post on your board.

On the other hand, the primary purpose of this board is to reach out to people who are hurting, and show them the many options available to ease their pain.

Those on this board who enjoy being bullies will continue being bullies. I've realized I can't change that. I'll always follow their posts with kind words and encourage people to stick around.

Those who think, "well someone had to say it"....you already know my feelings on that.

Joe

Guiseppi wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 9:53pm:

You're missing my point Nolan. BULLSHIT! You're an idiot.........vs: That's not a high percentage treatment option, there are options available that provide relief for a much higher percentage of those who try them. On the one hand, it's fun to get on a pedestal, talk down to someone, let them know you are the all knowing, all wise, omnipotent font of CH wisdom, and they are scum not worthy to post on your board. On the other hand, the primary purpose of this board is to reach out to people who are hurting, and show them the many options available to ease their pain. Those on this board who enjoy being bullies will continue being bullies. I've realized I can't change that. I'll always follow their posts with kind words and encourage people to stick around. Those who think, "well someone had to say it"....you already know my feelings on that. Joe

Never was meant as an insult nor was it bullying.  It was my opinion. The feller made one post and hasn't been back to check on the post.  Ya think maybe they just come here to goof us?

             Potter who ain't no god

          

Guiseppi wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 9:53pm:

You're missing my point Nolan.

I am not missing anything Joe... if you look at the first two posts in this thread, mine and yours, we were heading in the right direction at that time. I welcomed and said "not too weird", and you encouraged him to read up in case it failed him. The next post should have been Bob Johnson with the whole specialist speal... and on and on. The Bullshit comment was not gentle, I said that, but instead of resuming to make him feel at home and help him we all went into this shit storm, that quite frankly would scare me away faster than a bullshit comment from a few amongst many many others who are trying to be nice and help. I get everyone's points here... mine is this went wrong here and we need to learn from it.

I'm not touching the "in house" discussions, I did however try it in capsule form at one time. Ingesting it and from my limited experience... it did nothing, except making trips to the bath room, at times, a bit more interesting....  :D

Remember the old Hank Williams song... "Settin' the woods on fire"???!!!

No comment on snorting the stuff, no experience.

i tried it and it seemed to work for me...  at first.

im still not sure if it was the capsaicin or just the caughing and sputtering, or just coincidence, but i carried it on me almost everywhere until i got on the lithium.

the way i see it, even if there is a one in a hundred chance that it will actually abort a CH, i want it within reach.  sometimes, you can end up in a position where you really cant afford to get a bad hit, and i would much rather take a million scovilles up the nose or even in the eye than have to ride out a bad hit in a bad place at a bad time.

even with good prevents, i still keep three forms of abortives on me or near me at all times.  a tiny bottle of pepper extract is small enough to barely be noticed, and if it gives me nothing more than peace of mind, it helps.

i will say though, if you ever get in the habbit of carrying something really spicy in your pocket, put it in a small plastic bag.  i learned this after months of wondering why my right thigh always felt like it had been sunburned by the end of the day...

so far as the dangers go,  i dont think it is that great.  i have managed to inhale a 1.5 million scoville pepper extract without damaging my lungs.  it just made me caugh more than the gas chamber did in basic training, for about five minutes or so.  and of course, if your hand goes to your nose to wipe the spicy snot away, its next stop should probably not be your eye. 

since capsaicin is something your body can get used to, it kinda makes sense that it would stop working after a short period of time.  the question is, why does it work for some to bo begin with?  what makes those of us who experience limited success different from those who experience none?

personally, i dont care what somebody else says will not work if i think it will work for me.  even if i dont think it will, ill still often try it. 
with cluster headaches, its easy to get that desperate.

Linda_Howell wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 8:53pm:

I've heard far too many with negative reports on this not to mention my own...very painful experiments with capsasin.

Oh Linda, you are so right.  Let us not forget this nameless poor lass you will remember.     ;)



Quote:

If you are easily offeneded, please don't read anymore. This is a true story and it happened to me about 4 years ago. I have only told a handfull of people the tale, but I thought we could all use a good laugh around here, so here goes. This story comes in 2 parts. Part 1 A few years ago I had read on the board that the use of Capsapian cream or the cream that sportsmen use for injuries, would help a clusterheadache. I read that if you applied the cream to the side of the headache it would help the pain. I ran out and and bought a tube. A couple of days later I had the chance to test it out. The beast awoke in my head. I opened up the tube and smeared some of the cream to my temple, forehead and jaw area. I got back into bed and waitied for the magic to happen. Oh my god, it made it worse if that is possible. In my pain, I used my hand to get the excess cream off my face and I wiped it on the bed sheet on the side of my bed. I kept wiping and wiping. I ran into the shower to rinse it off, then danced with the beast for the duration. End of part one. Side note. Sometimes in the throes of pain, I forget what I have done. Part2 (5 days later) I was getting ready for bed and I felt a little...errr.......tense shall we say. Being a chronically single woman, I need help to eerrr....de-stress. So I went to find my "big man in a drawer" I found him. Got into bed. I looked closely at "him" and it had a little feather on the end of it. (My down comforter is a pain). Well I couldn't be bothered to get out of bed again, so I wiped the feather off on the side of my bed sheet. So I began to ...errrrr...destress myself. This unfamiliar sensation began to take over my nether regions. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! My Lucy was on FIRE!!!!!!!! I jumped out of bed as fast as I could, clambered into the shower, turned the cold water, grabbed the shower head and tried to calm the raging flames that were taking over my woomanhood. Later, I was in my living room trying to figure out what in the hell had just happened. I called my best friend and told her the story in a shakey voice. "Karen, someone sabotaged my dildo...whaaaaaaaaaa" "I think someone must have dipped it in hot sauce whaaaaaaa" "I'm coming over" she said. Karen arrived at my house 20 minutes later with a ziplock bag and some cold yogurt. We figured it must have been the maintenance men. "I'm calling the cops in the morning" said Karen She ordered me to put the offending object into the ziplock bag. "They might be able to fingerprint it" The next morning Karen called me and reported she had indeed called the cop shop and asked if  it was possible for a vibrator to be fingerprinted. I think they thought it was a prank call. Well a few days went by, I had already got a lock put on my bedroom door, and Karen still had my "man" in a bag. I was relaxing watching TV when all of a sudden it dawned on me what I had done. "Oh Shit" I called Karen and told her, and we laughed till we cried. My Lucy has never really been the same ;;D

Of course though, I hope those easily offended don't disappear.  :)

Oh Kevin..how could anyone forget her, or her story.  lmao

PokeyOats wrote on Oct 12^th, 2012 at 12:55pm:

Hi all, I just wanted to get this out there because as a sufferer I will so anything to help anyone, these headaches are a living hell!

He was just trying to share what was working for him. If you found something strange (out of the ordinary) that worked for you and you where simply just trying to share your experience and someone wrote on your board bull shit how would you feel. I think some of you are missing the point ! Newbies do not no you or anything about you. If you disagree with what they are using maybe try and say it in a nicer way ! this is not the first time i have seen potter write negative post on people post !matter fact about every post Ive seen from him has been pretty rude to be honest. The last guy Potter was rude to on his post DM me and said he appreciated me standing up for him but he would no longer be posting on this forum because of how rude he was on the poor guys first post. We have a shitty condition that not many have, and a lot of us feel hopeless and alone and this is the only place we can find anyone to relate to. why scare them away from the board.

Let's get something straight before we start bandying buzzwords about. Bullying can only be done from a position of power. Moderators and the owner are the only ones on this site that have any power, if you even want to call it that (in that they can freeze threads and/or ban posters for breaking the rules). Minus them, everyone else on this board is equal in terms of power (e.g., we have none, nor should we.). We all come here of our own volition, and are free to leave under the same terms.

This is NOT a case of bullying. It's a matter of style. A poster can disagree with another poster's style, and they're free to restate what might be good and sound advice in their own style. Pretty simple.

Now maybe those snivelin bout Potters style will quit whinin.  I'll be a little more loquacious, from now on.

                  Potter

Am reminded…maybe 8-10 years ago..... I went the snorted cayenne pepper route….hey, blue cheese, vinegar, tin foil hats, neck pressure…WHAT-EVER!..if I thought dog poop head rubs would work…woulda tried that too….that’s how bad ch is…

used to carry a small bag of such powder…first sign of a hit and jon is squirreled away snortin “red”…for a while it seemed to sorta work…at least lowering the hit…placebo or distraction…dunno. Then my colleagues started wondering about me…he disappears…comes back with red eyes and the “sniffles”… and acting weird…just wasn’t worth it…besides… it wasn’t “workin” no more….

…am also reminded of treasured memories with my brother…we used to go down by the banks of the Skagit river to pick blackberries (them’s the best!). Usually involved passing thru a pasture…with a “no trespass” sign. I surely do love my bro…and one of his best qualities is sign recognition…he always tells me…when we see such a sign…”well, it DON”T mean ME” (I’m thinking he prefers what the BACK of the sign says…Ima wuss and usually read the front).

Pastures involve cattle…and the cows…a creature as curious as a cat…well…it is an otherworldly feeling to be stared at by such like you are an alien from Mars. Now the usual lone bull was a different story…he didn’t care what planet you were from…. cuz you were in HIS world…and he DON’T… LIKE…. IT! (snort, slobber, and the stink eye tells ya so). We got by with the following: face up, calm, no quick moves, be ready to run…and mooooove along slow. The return trip was always easier…guess we were part of the herd at that point…..

..also reminded of a Potter story re walking in a field with a friend…and spotting a pile of bullshit in the path. What to do? Point it out and save the friend the stinkin squishees…or let him experience the realities of life????

Me?…I’d walk thru a field ANY day with Potter….

Best,

Jon

Loquacious indeed. But then I have always felt that you had an extreme propensity for pontification.  ;)

Some folks don't always want to hear straight talk - which in turn squelches conversation for many of us. It's different around here now - people are expected to be politically correct - and warm and fuzzy.

It's the internet where a person can choose to ignore, but some folks haven't figured that out.

Marc

first and foremost i never said bullying, i don't consider this bullying, that is extreme i really don't understand why instead of just writing bullshit! you couldn't have tried suggest other alternatives. and explained why he felt that way. that's all i'm saying. i take it as rude and as much as this sight has helped me. I will no longer be a member of a board like this if that is the way we treat new members of the board. Best of luck to you all. Take care and thanks for the support in the past. And i wish you all PF days!

Potter wrote on Oct 19^th, 2012 at 1:11pm:

Now maybe those snivelin bout Potters style will quit whinin.

Not snivelin, Potter, simply stating my disgust that some people see fit to swear at first-time posters.

This is a support group where the vast majority of us choose to support new-comers.

I'm gonna have some pizza, catch some baseball or a movie, call it a day and be around again tomorrow. Had a good time with everybody, we'll do it again.  Jon, your story was a great pleasure and made my day reading it.

If awoken I'll probably peek in while I'm up, as usual.  We'll work on this PF thing another few thousand times.  Keep it if you got it and let's get a few more there.  Thanks all very much for mine I get. :)