any studies among those that suffer from CH's also have acid reflux?

Don't know of any studies but I get it badly!!

I have to take medication for it and avoid caffine.

Not until my mid 40's, CH since late teens. No serious meds yet just Don't eat after 6:00 PM, Tums and occasional .....crap....that big tablet you chew just one of.......Gads I hate getting old!!!

Joe

I definitely have it.  Was on Previced for years, but then it was controlled.  I still take Previced OTC on occasion.
When I have a cycle I usually don't have acid reflux as much because my diet changes avoiding all those acidic foods and alcohol so I can pound my energy drinks and coffee w/o heartburn.

This is potentially a very interesting topic!

There's considerable evidence that melatonin is a very effective treatment for GERD.  It's well established that melatonin helps a lot of us with CH.  Wonder if there's some connection?

A number of gastrointestinal disorders (e.g. Celiac disease) are known to interfere with uptake of nutrients and minerals, particularly calcium.  Screwed-up calcium levels are well known to contribute to neurological problems.  Connection?

Something like 3/4 of the serotonin in our bodies is in the intestines, and it's pretty well established that serotonin levels have a major effect on CH.  It's certainly plausible that a gastrointestinal problem could cause, or at least contribute to, disrupted serotonin levels.  That could easily be a factor in CH.  Connection?

There is ongoing research that suggests that drugs which inhibit serotonin production in the intestines might cure (or at least treat) osteoporosis.  This takes us back to the calcium-absorption issue.

It looks like the possible link between gut problems and CH is worthy of a lot more attention!  Just some food (gluten-free) for thought.

Regards,
Jim

Chad wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 9:02am:

I definitely have it...  When I have a cycle I usually don't have acid reflux as much because my diet changes avoiding all those acidic foods and alcohol...

Chad,

Is it possible that you don't have acid reflux as much because your serotonin levels are down, and the low levels are causing the CH?  (See my previous post).

It would be very interesting to see if those of us with GERD typically notice any decrease in GERD symptoms while we're in a CH cycle (?).  Maybe we just need to figure out a way of getting the serotonin out of our guts and into our brains where it'll do some good!  :-?

Just a little more food for thought.

Regards,
Jim

Jim, you have me scratching my head.

Very interesting, indeed.....

I don't get reflux, but I agree, this is an interesting topic with many possible links between the gut and the brain.

monty wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 2:25pm:

I don't get reflux, but I agree, this is an interesting topic with many possible links between the gut and the brain.

My hubby has epilepsy(which I think more like ch than migraines), gerd, and sleep apnea.  His Dr's told him the gerd and sleep apnea are related to the epilepsy.  They couldn't exactly explain how, but that was thier story and they stuck to it.

Whilst most doctors think the symptom of acid reflux is because of too much acid its actually more commonly the opposite a lack of stomach acid.

They will usually prescribe ant-acids, proton pump inhibitors, which lower your stomach acid even more.

Good acid relux remedies, is digestive bitters they stimulate the bitter receptors at the back of the tongue and in turn stimulate the release of stomach acid, pancreatice enzymes and bile secreation whilst cleansing the liver.

probiotics and other cultured food is a good idea to restore your good bacteria.

powerlifer wrote on Mar 24^th, 2010 at 1:24pm:

Whilst most doctors think the symptom of acid reflux is because of too much acid its actually more commonly the opposite a lack of stomach acid.

Hmmmm...... I would have to see some hard evidence before even beginning to accept this opinion.

Marc

While I am NOT one of the more educated or one of the research types on this board...(I thank God for BOTH types on this board) ;).....I found this topic interesting too. One of my triggers is letting myself get really hungry.

Joe

I thought id bump this thread since im looking into this .. my sons first sign of CH's coming has been routinely and increase of acid reflux.. every ...  single ... time .. the reflux comes first .. usually about 3 - 5 days ahead of the cluster pattern.   Treating him with Mylanta the last few days and no headaches .. no stomach problems.  will have to wait and see like everything else tried on the sites ..

For those who are suffering from both acid reflux and cluster headaches:

Batch's Anti-Inflammatory Regimen (Vitamin D3 + cofactors) has an excellent track record for preventing CH:
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AND

According to the neurologist Dr Stasha Gominak, low Vitamin D3 status may contribute to acid reflux and other stomach issues:
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If I had both conditions I would follow Batch's Regimen for 4 weeks to see if improved Vitamin D3 levels could kill two birds with one stone.

Hmmm...

A quick review of Mylanta ingredients revealed the following:

Active Ingredients (in each 5 mL teaspoon):

Aluminum hydroxide 400 mg (equivalent to dried gel, USP)
Magnesium hydroxide 400 mg
Simethicone 40 mg

I suspect it's the 400 mg of magnesium hydroxide that's producing the CH preventative effect...

Aluminum has been implicated as possibly causal in several onerous medical conditions...  For example... "Increased oral aluminium absorption has been suggested in Alzheimer’s disease (AD) and Down’s subjects."  See the following link for details:

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Accordingly, I avoid products containing aluminum and I've tossed out all my old aluminum frying pads.  The anti-inflammatory regimen works more reliably to prevent CH...

Regarding acid reflux...  I've found eating an early evening meal and staying upright for at least two hours after eating helps reduce any acid reflux...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

feisty wrote on Aug 14^th, 2014 at 6:26pm:

According to the neurologist Dr Stasha Gominak, low Vitamin D3 status may contribute to acid reflux and other stomach issues: START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE If I had both conditions I would follow Batch's Regimen for 4 weeks to see if improved Vitamin D3 levels could kill two birds with one stone.

I speculate about this a lot.  I have been struggling with acid reflux for a couple of years, and I have been on the anti-inflammatory regimen for over two years with much success and D3 blood levels in the optimum range or above.  So I can't say that it has helped with the reflux. I have only recently added Grominak's B50 suggestion, and I'm hoping it might help with my stomach issues. Because acid-reducing meds reduce magnesium absorption, I try to stay off of Zantac or Prilosec type medication as much as possible, in case it messes up my CH preventative.  :-[

Doubly interesting.....started Batch's regimen very near in time to retiring from a VERY stressful job.....always assumed it was leaving the job the ended my horrible acid reflux issues...now I'm not so sure! :D

Joe

Glad this thread has been bumped, thanks.  Maybe my speculation 4 & 1/2 years ago when I started this thread wasn't so far fetched afterall  ::)

I have been on the 123 vitamin regimen pretty regularly for a couple years now and have yet to go 1 night without acid reflux/heartburn.  So I am not a believer that this vitamin regimen is 100% effective relieving heartburn/acid reflux.

For relief, I need to chew Tums a few nights a week and I swallow 1 Prilosec every morning.  They both help compared to nothing, but I still suffer from chronic heartburn/acid reflux. 

CH's on the other hand, proud to be in remission over 2 & 1/2 years and am not sure if it's the vitamins keeping me out of cycle or just my irregular remission periods; regardless the vitamins are healthy so I follow protocol.

Please share more input on your thoughts of the relation among acid reflux/digestion and CH's...

-Gregg in Las Vegas

Quote:

Please share more input on your thoughts of the relation among acid reflux/digestion and CH's...

My speculation:

Underlying gut problems can mess with both healthy digestion, and the regulation of Vitamin D within the body. So there could be a sequence of:

damaged gut --> digestion problems --> messed up Vit D regulation --> reduced Vit D in the body --> inflammation --> CH

If the above scenario occurred, Vit D supplementation could potentially reduce the inflammation causing CH, but not fix the underlying gut issues.

Keep in mind that the vagus nerve extends from the gut to the brain and CH treatments have been targeted at the vagus nerve specifically. It's not a stretch, IMO, to consider that gut issues that cause acid reflux may also impact the vagus nerve and indirectly the parts of the brain involved with CH.

Here's an article that is a good primer on a more holistic approach to healing gut issues. It has worked for people I know, but it requires effort, dietary commitment, self-education, and time:

Acid Reflux: A Red Flag
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scroll down to:
PROGRAM FOR RECOVERY FROM ACID REFLUX

Hope that helps.

No acid reflux here...

Mark Olson wrote on Aug 15^th, 2014 at 1:30am:

No acid reflux here...

Or here either.

HI Batch ,, yes I was wonder about the Mag .. also note that there is another type of reflux condition that is silent ,, GERD is obvious  but LPRD so you may still have the problem .. you just don't feel it.

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wonder-ING that is lol

didgens wrote on Aug 15^th, 2014 at 11:54am:

HI Batch ,, yes I was wondering about the Mag .. also note that there is another type of reflux condition that is silent ,, GERD is obvious  but LPRD isnt so you may still have the problem .. you just don't feel it. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

ok I re-wrote this so humans can read .. geeze must need more coffee !

also note there are many types of acid inhibitors and not every one works for everyone. TUMS did nothing for my son, but generic Mylanta does ,,,  Zantac, etc did nothing for me .. Nexium for 3 months did (I have esophageal erosion).  Some are PPI's (proton pump inhibitors) others are  H2 blockers ,, there are so many on the market because its not a one size fits all ,, why I dunno.  I do know that Nexium is now over the counter ,, expensive yes but you don't need a prescription for it anymore.   I will continue to watch my son closely.   

I would also like to add my 2 cents worth ( I think I have already put in many dollars .. sorry and thanks for listening  :))  In a study that's posted on another topic here Clusters were recreated by having participants inhale Nitro Glycerin. This indicated to me that something causing inflammation in the sinus cavitiy stimulates the Sphenopalatine ganglion or the Nasociliary ganglion causing inflammation and hence CH's or an otherwise like condition called Charlin's syndrome (you can google this).  I believe that the CH or Charlins brought upon an hour or so after sleeping might indicate acid reflux upon reclining reaching the back of the throat causing this inflammation.  I also belive the the seasonal CH's experienced while awake are caused by the inhalation of whatever grows in a specific area at that time of year and an allergic reaction to it.  My son rarely gets a CH when awake. Almost always they come 1 - 1.5 hours after laying down.  I am going to however have his blood serum testing for possible allergies  (also note along with the reflux/headaches for him comes much Hay Fever and sneezing).  I am continually reading trying to look at all symptoms until it all comes together and makes some kind of sense.. thanks for listening !! again

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didgens wrote on Aug 15^th, 2014 at 11:54am:

HI Batch ,, yes I was wonder about the Mag ..

You could try a high quality magnesium supplement like this instead of the aluminum-containing Mylanta...
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my goal was to reduce my sons acid reflux symptoms. Not sure a supplement would do the trick.  hes "out" of his longest cluster-ish phase right now so will have to wait till next go-round and experiment some more.. one step up and 2 steps back eh ?

I was wondering about this for quite some time.

Interesting, after a 1 year cycle I had an ulkus perforation and immediately became completely pain free for around 4 months. Then the headaches returned.

English translation is peptic ulcer ..

how was it treated ??

About 4-5 years ago during one of my cycles, I noticed that whenever I took an antacid at night, I didn't get an attack the next morning. I was convinced that I had found the cure and sailed through that particular cycle smoothly. Only for the beast to have 'adapted' and return 6 months later with antacids having no effect.  PS - I was using an antacid syrup containing Aluminium Hydroxide (no magnesium in it as far as i can remember) and omeprazole 20 mg, about an hour before going to bed.

My acid reflux is so bad that it created an ulcer on my esophagus. Had to go to the hospital last month after coughing up blood for three days. Lots of annoying tests with anesthesia resulted in acid reflux as the culprit.

Pain free since Fall 2011 thanks to Batch's vitamin regimen. I would take acid reflux over CH's anyday of the year!

This is really interesting. My neuro asked me if I have acid reflux (I do, but not badly),  and I was puzzled but I didn't think to ask what the connection was.

Interesting. I have always had acid reflux for has long has I can remember. Better nutrition and knowing what triggers my acid reflux (wheat, gluten, red meat, alcohol etc...) has helped me over the years to keep it under control.

Dr. Mercola has an excellent article on acid reflux and how to treat it at home.

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He suggests diets containing whole foods, probiotics, fermented vegetables like sauerkraut and kimchi as well as simple things like baking soda, cultured dairy, such as yoghurt, kefir, sour cream and of course, raw unprocessed apple cider.
   
It's a great read...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

This is Interesting!
Too low acid levels in stomac allows acetium producing microbes to live...and it has been reported that for some people acetium (acetaldehyde blocker) helps for acid reflux...
...makes one wonder...

chronic gastritis for years.

I am convinced that there is some relationship between acidity levels and primary headaches.

Diet, water, smoking, coffee, fat, processed food.

I live in China and if you go to a TCM doctor they will tell you that they treat headaches as a stomach ailment. Maybe they have a point after all.