Reading through most of the posts (albeit there are only a handfull related to smoking and CH) it appears that very few of us see a significant relationship between CH and smoking.

It occurred to me that, while flicking through the pictures of the CH.com conventions, many, if not all, pictures showed members "lighting up".

Being a smoker myself (1.5 packs a day for 15 years), I have often asked myself whether smoking is not to blame for the onset of my CH some 8 years ago, although it actually started during a period in which I had managed to temporarily kick the habit for a few years.

Regardless whether some stats imply that 70% of CH sufferers have a nicotine history (which may or may not be exaggerated) and although we probably all agree that quitting smoking after CH has started has no effect on calming the beast, I do tend to believe that smoking is partly to blame for it coming into our lives in the first place.

Being a chronic and therefore having to stay away from booze and being on a low histamine diet means that the thought of also binning cigarettes doesnt fulfill me with joy, but at the same time I am conscious that it would possibly help me make my body stronger, improve my respiratory system, improve oxygen circulation throughout my body and possibly make we more resilient against the beast.

Thoughts anyone?

I don't doubt that there is a relationship between the two and never have. That said, and despite the obvious benefits to quitting, I continue to smoke. Nicotine has a powerful addictive effect. I'm a moderate drinker but I manage to give it up when a CH cycle comes around because the alternative is to drink a little and then experience a screaming headache a few minutes later. Only a fool would knowingly induce that kind of pain on purpose. Smoking with me does'nt seem to bring on a HA and in fact seems to make me relax after I've had a HA. If smoking brought on CH like alcohol does, I could probably quit it too.
                                Rich

I am a smoker too and have never thought that my smoking has anything to do with C/H. In fact, I used to find that when I was at the end of an attack, I would light a ciggie and found it helped for me.

Now, if I was having a glass of red, then that would definately bring on an attack. :(

I am lighting up too after an attack to calm me down and dont believe it to be an immediate trigger during episodes.

At the same time I do believe that there may be a relationship between longtime heavy smoking bringing on CH in the first place.

It seems that the people who developed CH and never smoked are a minority.

Interesting. We see it listed as a trigger and in many studies. Always on the list of causes. My Doc always mentions smoking every visit. My CH started after a bout of insomnia which I was only sleeping a few hours a night and I increased my normal smoking amount significantly for about a month. Just an observation. Sure wish there was more definite info about this. Thanks for the thread.
God Bless
Donna Mae :)

This makes me wonder if my CH's were initially triggered by a closed head injury which is what all the doctors and I thought...or if it was from starting smoking cigarettes...looking back 30 yrs to age 11 :(

I'm a smoker and while I've seen enough hard evidence to fully agree smoking isn't a healthy habit, I have also lost all patience for what passes as fact in the interest of advancing opinionated causes.

Specific to CH...

Over the years I've come to understand that not all CH sufferers smoke and many have never smoked.        My former Neurologist recommended quitting smoking for general health reasons but made it clear that doing so would not reduce or cure CH.  Notably he was also a medical researcher and unfortunately for me, left general practice to advance a research career.  I don't believe I'll find another open minded Neurologist with pure interest in understanding his patients actual experiences to work with again.

In General...   

Smoking is one variable among many that affect our health but is also the current whipping boy and money maker for the health care industry.  Conveniently overlooked are the effects of repeated and long term exposure to auto/truck/bus emissions, paints/solvents, lawn/home pesticides & herbicides, human waste, industrial chemicals/plant emissions, etc., etc., etc., in the air, water, and ground.

Most reports implicating “first hand”, “second hand”, and most recently “third hand” smoke (smoke that lingers in furniture, on walls, etc., etc.) as plagues on society's  health aren't worth the paper they are written on – let alone the billions of public and private dollars that funded them.  In our current morass, smoking has been implicated as the cause of everything from excessive body hair to pimples on your derriere.  It's a challenge to research a medical condition that doesn't include smoking as a “potential cause”.  Isn't it simple..... ban smoking and society's health issues will vanish, the economy will soar, IQ scores will increase, and the nation's impoverished will be saved.   

In this culture, truth and fact are overshadowed by the B.S.  Credibility is sacrificed in the pursuit of sociopolitical, “anti-something” agendas.    

burnt-toast
(Tom)

AMEN TO THAT TOM!!!

Just to chime in with a quick antecdotal bit:

The amount of cigarettes I have smoked during the course of my 30 years so far of CH = zero.

(I did smoke smoke some as a teen, but quit a few years before my first CH attack, when my mom, rest her beautiful soul, gave me $20 if i would quit)  :)

I agree with the other posters, lighting up at the end of an attack is such a relief!

Tom, I could kiss you.  I could not have said that any better. 

There is no evidence that smoking causes CH or makes it worse.  Nictotine is a vasoconstrictor(Which is what we need during an attac k) and I believe THAT is why so many of us smoke. 

I don't think we are in denial; at all.  Smoking IS bad for us.  No doubt about that, but to blame cigarettes for CH is absurd.

Wow Tom!!  You nailed it with that post!!!

And BTW, for all you smokers readin this thread, I've cut my tobacco expense in half by ordering Russian Cigs from  cigdot.com 

I'm paying $22.24 per carton for Marlboro Ultra Lite Kings including the $6.90 s&h charge when I order 6 cartons at a time.  If you use a credit card they ship when they recieve your order and give an 11 biz day delivery timeframe from the Ukraine....if you do EFT it takes a bit longer...been takin about 4 1/2 to 5 weeks for me to get mine as they don't take Master Card and I don't have a Visa or Amex..still a great deal as the Doral Ultra Lights that I normally smoke are now $47.19 a carton here in Dallas so what was costin me almost $290 is now just $134!!!

Dallas Denny

Neuropath,

I sincerely hope you have not recieved the wrong impression here.  While we say it has little to do with CH....that does NOT mean that smoking is good.  It is not. 

Personally I intend to look into the E-cigarettes that Pegg and others here have tried.  It is at the bottom of her posts. The patch, and gum have done nothing for me.  :-/

Just adding - don't smoke, never picked it up as a habit, did try a few drags as a teen but never more then that. I'm sure walking down the street in some cities I've inhaled more smoke then I did on those afternoons in suburbia. I'm relatively certain it has nothing to do with my CH and in no manner could be controlled or eliminated.

Not sure everyone got the point I was trying to make.

Am not suggesting that stopping smoking has any positive effect on CH...by the time CH is here the train has already left the station.

My point: just like longterm heavy smoking can cause lung cancer, can longterm heavy smoking be responsible for causing CH in the first place? We all agree that once both conditions are here stopping to smoke will make no difference, but can stopping make you body fitter to make the battle more promising? As Laotze said: The bigger army wins!

The "cluster survey" in the links on the left side of the screen shows out of 12,026 sufferers that took the survey, 48% DON'T smoke. ??

Don

I can maybe add a little to this debate. 

I'd been mis-diagnosed for many years.  It wasn't until I'd undergone hypnosis to quit smoking that I got a correct diagnosis.  Here is what my specialist at the time figured was the reason.

I'd been a non-smoker for only a couple weeks, but during that time my attacks were were becomming more frequent.  I was middle of the night sufferer almost exclusively for oh so many years.  Chronic by definition but with an odd pattern,  2 or 3 days of attacks and 3 to 4 days without, and no longer than a couple weeks break when I did get extended time off from hits.

But when I quit smoking cold turkey back in late February 2004, I started getting hit not only at night, but during the day too. 

One thing that is known is that CH also has a connection to serotonin levels, and it's also known that cigarette smoke contains MAIO's.  So in addition to nicotine there are properties that alter the serotonin levels when a person smokes and ultimately quits smoking.

I had started smoking again, but the cold turkey alteration of serotonin levels morphed "MY" beast..well lets just say the damage was done.  Starting smoking again didn't change the new pattern.  (but quitting was the catalyst to a proper diagnosis)

Now it could also be said, that the connection between CH and smoking is the serotonin connection.  Possibly it's a combination between the nicotine vascoconstriction and the MAOI's in tobacco smoke that help keep a more comfortable balance.  If the theory you present is valid, the opposite could be just as valid.

If 48% said that they didn't smoke, that leaves 52% who said they did, which is more than twice the rate of smoking compared to the general population. I think that the percentage of smokers in the U.S. is around 20-22% of the adult population. I don't know if that number only includes those who could be termed regular smokers or if it also includes those who only indulge occasionally.
                                 Rich
                           

Even if it is true that more CH sufferers are smokers than the general population, smoking must only be a partial factor since about half of the sufferers say they've never smoked.

I think we all have those times we wish we could know why we have CH.  Even if it blames us, the knowledge would be great to have for other people and even for a nice piece of mind.

I don't smoke, never have smoked an entire cigarette.   Have had a few cigars, but less then 1 a year.

I doubt smoking has any negative effect on CH nor do I believe it is a cause.  Just my opinion.

Ahhh, the chicken/egg debate.

I believe that the same malfunction in the hypo that cause ch also causes us to have addictive personalities and thus be smokers.  Most clusterheads are pretty good drinkers also!  Smoking and ch are both caused by the same thing but have no effect on each other.

Rich wrote on Mar 13^th, 2010 at 4:43am:

I don't doubt that there is a relationship between the two and never have.                                 Rich

Let me put it to you this way, when I smoked 5 years ago and during cycle, it was almost 5 minutes or less that a cluster was following after a cig.  I still have an occassional cigar and the same thing happens there.  Needless to say, cigars and the other triggers are put to rest during cycle.  If that's not a trigger I don't what it is.  We must remember though everybody has different triggers.  Since I quit smoking the cycles are shorter and the intensity or Kip scale is lower.  Maybe it's just a coincidence.

Ive been having clusters for nearly a year. But have only been smoking properly for erm... about 3 years? do you think this is the reason i get clusters? even though i have only been smoking for a short while?

As a smoker and a sufferer of chronic cluster headaches i will agree with this.  Smoking restricts the flow of oxygen to the brain.  I've researched all this, but my memory is not what it used to be. 

When we have headaches (i think it the hypathalimis gland) or veins in the brain are basically pinched, like a hose and the blood is trying to flow through, thus producing pain/headache.  Oxygen is such a great treatment because it opens those "pinched" hoses thus releaving the pressure/headache/pain. 

I wish i never smoked.  I feel this was a big reason why i have these.  I used to think it was the red in my tattoos. 

I don't know i can quit smoking.  Its a release from the hell.

SET•ME•FREE wrote on Mar 15^th, 2010 at 12:09pm:

I don't know i can quit smoking.  Its a release from the hell.

IMHO, this is the hardest reason for quitting.

My neuro told me that smoking can cause clusters but once you get them even if you stop smoking this cant help. if you get what i mean. Its like getting cancer and saying well ill stop smoking, its not necessarily going to get rid of the cancer because the damage is already done.

SET•ME•FREE wrote on Mar 15^th, 2010 at 12:09pm:

As a smoker and a sufferer of chronic cluster headaches i will agree with this.  Smoking restricts the flow of oxygen to the brain.  I've researched all this, but my memory is not what it used to be.  When we have headaches (i think it the hypathalimis gland) or veins in the brain are basically pinched, like a hose and the blood is trying to flow through, thus producing pain/headache.  Oxygen is such a great treatment because it opens those "pinched" hoses thus releaving the pressure/headache/pain.  I wish i never smoked.  I feel this was a big reason why i have these.  I used to think it was the red in my tattoos.  I don't know i can quit smoking.  Its a release from the hell.

funny u should say "the red in your tattoos" a nutritionist mentioned that to me maybe  having something to do with interfering with clusters! interesting

haylz wrote on Mar 15^th, 2010 at 1:02pm:

My neuro told me that smoking can cause clusters but once you get them even if you stop smoking this cant help. if you get what i mean. Its like getting cancer and saying well ill stop smoking, its not necessarily going to get rid of the cancer because the damage is already done.

It's kind of like that, however cancer will kill you where clusters won't.

haylz wrote on Mar 15^th, 2010 at 1:02pm:

My neuro told me that smoking can cause clusters but once you get them even if you stop smoking this cant help. if you get what i mean. Its like getting cancer and saying well ill stop smoking, its not necessarily going to get rid of the cancer because the damage is already done.

Does your neuro know something that nobody else does?

I don't smoke, never have, and I've been chronic for over 7 years and episodic for over 20 before that.  I'm not a Dr, nor a scientist, but I don't see what lighting up has to do with the hypothalmus and causing CH.  If it did I'd start just so I could quit.

Jerry

Joe has never smoked either.

Smoke effects everybody differently I guess.  Gosh, I could be by burning leaves and BAM, here comes the cluster.  I'm the same way with bystander smoke.  Out of cycle, none of this effects me at all.  Matter of a fact, there is nothing better than smelling a wood fire in the winter, out of cycle of course.

[




Most reports implicating “first hand”, “second hand”, and most recently “third hand” smoke (smoke that lingers in furniture, on walls, etc., etc.) as plagues on society's  health aren't worth the paper they are written on – let alone the billions of public and private dollars that funded them.  In our current morass, smoking has been implicated as the cause of everything from excessive body hair to pimples on your derriere.  It's a challenge to research a medical condition that doesn't include smoking as a “potential cause”.  Isn't it simple..... ban smoking and society's health issues will vanish, the economy will soar, IQ scores will increase, and the nation's impoverished will be saved.   

In this culture, truth and fact are overshadowed by the B.S.  Credibility is sacrificed in the pursuit of sociopolitical, “anti-something” agendas.    

burnt-toast
(Tom)[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly Tom, I found the following pearls of wisdom in the comercial waffle from a company attemting to induce me to purchase a book.

"In 90% of the cases of chronic cluster headache, the person first experienced episodic cluster headaches which, over time, failed to achieve remission. This condition is known as secondary chronic cluster headache. This may occur under the following circumstances:

Onset of cluster headache later in life
Frequent episodic cluster headache with very brief periods of remission
Heavy smoker
High alcohol intake
Head trauma "

Followed by

"While the specific risk factors for developing cluster headache is presently unknown, there are some common traits among many patients who have cluster headache, though a direct cause and effect has not been established. These include:

Smoking - there is a very high association between smoking and cluster headache. Many physicians feel that you almost have to be a cigarette smoker to develop cluster headache, since up to 85% of patients with cluster headache are cigarette smokers. Unfortunately, cessation of smoking has no beneficial effects for those already suffering from cluster headache.
Alcohol consumption - cluster headache has also been strongly tied to a history of alcohol consumption."

These statements don't appear to correlate at all with the results of the survey

Skyhawk5 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2010 at 10:37pm:

The "cluster survey" in the links on the left side of the screen shows out of 12,026 sufferers that took the survey, 48% DON'T smoke. ?? Don

48% are not telling the truth  ;D

chewbaccamonkeylunch wrote on Apr 27^th, 2010 at 4:21pm:

48% are not telling the truth  ;D

Bullshit. ;D ;D

Interestingly, I got my first cluster of regular high-kippers when I managed to quit smoking for a couple of years as well.

I also have a history of rather heavy alcohol usage (though was never addicted) and I'd like to mention a history of depression also.

Since serotonin levels are linked to depression and are suspected to be linked to CH, I've always thought that depression-like symptoms and CH are highly related.

Mood is one of the reasons why some people smoke and drink a lot, which I feel is a plausible explanation for the seemingly high correlation between smoking, alcohol usage and CH.

Then again, I'm no doctor - just a guy who thinks too much sometimes.  ;)

Bob P is right. Your hypothalamus has a lot to do with addictions, habits, blood vessel/veins constricting/dilating, body temperature, circadian rhythms and more.
Cluster sufferers have a broken hypothalamus.

Quote:

I don't smoke, never have, and I've been chronic for over 7 years and episodic for over 20 before that.  I'm not a Dr, nor a scientist, but I don't see what lighting up has to do with the hypothalmus and causing CH.  If it did I'd start just so I could quit.

Quote:

Joe has never smoked either.

Right, and 10% of people who get lung cancer never smoked. But the fact that 90% of the people who get lung cancer are smokers tells us that smoking can cause lung cancer. It is not the only cause, but it is an important one.

Nicotine affects serotonin. While the idea that clusterheads have a defective hypothalamus that makes them more susceptible to addictions is a real possibility, so is the alternative explanation: smoking changes brain chemistry in a way that increases the risk of cluster headaches.

I smoked 1-2 packs a day for 10 years. One of the two reasons I stopped was clusters, and the other was money.

I've been smoke free for 4 months now, and seen absolutely no difference in headache intensity or frequency.

To my disappointment, it didn't give me any help except in my wallet.

Some have reported smoking as a trigger to an attack and/or trigger to a cycle.  Some report that smoking has absolutely no trigger affect at all and remain in remission when they do smoke.


On the other hand, many have claimed that they have never smoked and suffer as an episodic sufferer; and many have pointed out that they have never smoked and have been chronic.

My opinion is that smoking probably does have something to do with the oxygen flow in terms of vaso-constricting and vaso-dilation of the hypothalamus gland and/or trigeminal nerve. 

Guess it is safe to write that everybody has unique circumstances and what affects some, may not affect others. ::)