What is the general rule for using shrooms for CH when plagued with chronic depression or Bi-polar disorder. Does anyone here know of a persons experience in this regards.

I am sooooo f'ing tired of these horrid, nightmarish attacks.

with warm regards,
Tony

I am soooo sorry to hear you're in the same ch hell I'm in now too, Tony.

While I'm not bi-polar, I do take antidepressants. Used to take Zoloft (too pricey), now I take Celexa. They're both SSRI's. Check out clusterbusters. They have some info on what may interfere with shroom treatment. I just talked to my doc today about quitting the Celexa for now, so I can give my RC seeds a real chance.

Best of luck to ya bro!!
Adam

  "CH HELL" says it all!  Clusterbuster.com is your best bet for technical info on what drugs will interfer,  some block the effects and some will increase the effects.  But if you are worried about your own mental state,  well you need to use your best judgment.  If you want more detailed info you can pm me.
     Phil

Sorry... Forgot to mention....

I was gonna try to bust with my RC seeds this cycle while still using the Celexa (as ssri's are supposed to block if I recall right), just to see if it would work, but it seems to be actually making my CH's worse (if that's possible)!! That's why I talked to the doc about stopping it for now.

Again... best wishes Tony

Adam

What about the synergie formula.
That seems to work for some people.

Kudzu - 1000 mg, 2x per day (morning & night)  
Magnesium - 250 mg, 2x per day (morning & night)  
St. John's Wort - 300 mg, 2x per day (morning & night)  
Skullcap - 425 mg at bedtime  
Melatonin - 10 mg at bedtime  


When you have had a bit of sleep thats the time to read up on cluster busting.

If thoughts are prayers to help you, you've got mine.

Ellick.

From some of my personal experince in my younger days, I dont think taking shrooms would mix well with depression as the drug works on emotions. But the thing to remember is with shrooms or seeds, you would not be doing anything even close to a recreational dose, not even close. Coach Bill

Tony,
     I would recomend talking with as many ppl as you can who have
experiance with both.My own experiance is a lot like what's written
in the post here-: START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Thanks everybody... I very much appreciate your responses.

with warm regards,
Tony

Artonio, google Mycology or medicinal psilicybin, there is a lot of info regarding the treatment of depression using LSD and mushrooms.  Maybe you can treat two ilnesses with one stone, so to speak.  Also, if you can look into the different strains, again google.  Mushrooms are made up of three components (that cause the psychedelic affect) some are "happier" than others.  Try to find a strain that has the greatest happy component if at all possible.  Spores for the happy strain may be obtained on line.  Just a thought  See Erowids Vaults

oregonian clusterer wrote on Feb 7^th, 2009 at 2:00pm:

Artonio, google Mycology or medicinal psilicybin, there is a lot of info regarding the treatment of depression using LSD and mushrooms.

Yes, counter-intuitively, hallucinogens have been used to successfully treat depression and schizophrenia, even though the popular notion is that they will make a person permanently crazy and sad.

Part of the bigger problem is that our understanding of depression is so primitive.  It is silly to assume that all depression has its roots in the same chemical glitches in the same part of the brain, yet that is how most treatment plans are structured.  People like Dr. Amen have done fMRI and PET scans of the brain, and they have come up with very different types of depression, and not all respond to the same treatments. But thinking about depression is dominated by the use of the SSRIs ... its the 'have hammer, every problem looks like a nail' effect.

Bottom line is that I don't know how clusterbusting would interact with your type of depression.  

Tony,

According to the book " Psychedelic medicine : New evidence for hallucinogenic substances as treatments" by Winkleman and Roberts ( which I got from Clusterbusters.com ), there are several issues concerning the use of psychedelics in people with depression and other mental illnesses.

LSD and psilocybin affect serotonin which in turns affect mood, sleep, hallucination and the processing of emotional and pain sensation. During the 1950-60s, when LSD was widely used to treat various mental illnesses, it was found to have accelerated psychotherapy which was beneficial in some cases. However, the majority of the studies was inconclusive. It was difficult to get a proper control group and true blind studies were not possible due to the fact that the effects of psychedelic too obvious. It was also found that treatment sessions were time consuming. Even low doses can have a profound psychoactive and behavioural effects lasting for many hours ( more than 5 hours ) during which the patients should be closely supervised and supported. I understand that the effective dosage for CH is often well below the trip level but when taken by someone with an active neurotransmitter imbalance, it is almost impossible to guage the effect.

It was found that psychedelics helped depressed patients becoming more aware and therefore able to recognize and explore the traumatic basis of their symptoms and conditions. This means that it is more helpful for someone who just starts to engage in depression treatment and/or psychotherapy. I do not know how helpful it would be for people who have already had extensive psychotherapy and who has already worked through the roots of their condition.

People may think that psychedelics help depression by simply elevating their moods and making them feel better, similarly to a traditional antidepressant. From what I have read, this is not so. Psychedelics seem to help with insight and self awareness, which along with psychotherapy helps depression long term, but in the short term may make the person becoming more acutely aware of their mental and emotional pain.

I can keep talking for ages here but I think I better stop. If you want to discuss this more with me please drop me a PM.

In short, if you are considering busting you should be supervised daily by someone experienced in both the use of psychedelics and the symptoms/signs of depression and bipolar, to be on the safe side.

wrote on Feb 7^th, 2009 at 5:59pm:

I can keep talking for ages here but I think I better stop. If you want to discuss this more with me please drop me a PM. In short, if you are considering busting you should be supervised daily by someone experienced in both the use of psychedelics and the symptoms/signs of depression and bipolar, to be on the safe side.

I certainly don't think "daily" supervision is necessary. Should you choose this route after doing the proper research, doses are generally sub-hallucinogenic and rather infrequent.  

Both Drs Halpern and Sewell are not only psychiatrists, but they're affiliated with Clusterbusters, Tony. If they don't respond on the other board, we can hook you up by email.

wrote on Feb 7^th, 2009 at 5:59pm:

...psychedelics helped  ...becoming more aware and therefore able to recognize and explore ... Psychedelics seem to help with insight and self awareness,... in the short term may make the person becoming more acutely aware of their mental and emotional pain.

For a minute, excluding discussion of the sub-hallucinogenic treatment aspirations, there were occasions of agreement on the above.  I've excluded reference to depression, more of a adolescent searching feeling that something is bothering just beyond awareness.  At times also, a severe and self-unassuring aspect ensued coming down that can present difficulties.  There, a need presenting attention about depression also, among the unpredictable outcomes.   Shrooms inclusive, there can be an up and down wave, hilarity to silence and back throughout sometimes, with a reassuring background atmosphere better. 

I might prefer as a purpose the sub-hallucinogenic pursuit better, adhering with the stated cautions here, as a possibly understated CH treatment.

nani wrote on Feb 7^th, 2009 at 6:29pm:

I certainly don't think "daily" supervision is necessary. Should you choose this route after doing the proper research, doses are generally sub-hallucinogenic and rather infrequent.   Both Drs Halpern and Sewell are not only psychiatrists, but they're affiliated with Clusterbusters, Tony. If they don't respond on the other board, we can hook you up by email.

By daily supervision I meant the ability to talk to and double check with a person experienced and hopefully qualified in both psychedelic use AND the management of mental conditions. Dosages used to bust CH are usually ( but not always ) sub-hallucinogenic and infrequent, but one needs to bear in mind the unpredictable effects those can have on someone with an existing mental condition. We all know that CH does not kill but mental illnesses, especially depression, can and do.

If you could through Clusterbusters get Dr Halpern and/or Dr Sewell to help you it would be ideal. However, I doubt that they would get themselves involved. Three years ago I emailed both of them asking for their opinions on busting ( on Daniel's behalf ) and they both told me in no uncertain term that we should be consulting our own specialists. They are research fellows not clinicians. As far as I know they do not treat patients.

Tonykins,
I went off the antidepressants (Prozac back then) to use the treatment. I was a complete bitch for five days after treatment, noticing every single speck of dust (yes, that *is* possible).

At this point, I'm ready to do the treatment again, but not willing to go off the antidepressants. So, for me, the depression is more important to treat at the moment.

I recommend you talk with your doctor/psychiatrist about it.