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Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> "Ritalin?"...... Update... http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1225219992 Message started by shelticon2 on Oct 28th, 2008 at 2:53pm |
Title: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by shelticon2 on Oct 28th, 2008 at 2:53pm
Hi All,
I have had some requests for info on my "Ritalin Experiment" so I thought that I would post what I have found. For those who don't recall, I had reduced my major CHs down to low Kips and shadows. While tolerable, my goal was to get rid of any hint of Chs all together. To do this I took 40mg Ritalin for 1 week. This seemed to lessen the pain but not totally get rid of it all. I then went off of the Ritalin to see if things returned to their previous state. Saturday was my last day of Ritalin.. Sunday..... no change. Monday.... and here is where things get wierd....Traditionally, when the weather cools down, my wife and I switch from our morning coffee to Chai Tea ( just tea with different spices). Monday was my first day having Chai Tea this season, my shadows where minimal. Tuesday thru Friday I had my Tea... I was 100% pain and shadow free. Saturday no tea..... no pain Sunday morning no tea..... shadows start to return.... Had tea Sunday afternoon and shortly thereafter the shadows went away. Monday and Tuesday ( so far) I had my tea and had no pain or shadows.. This is the longest period of time ( 1 week) that I have been pain free in over 1 year. Feels good!!! Conclusion: The Ritalin did't help much while I was on it. Was coming off of the Ritalin the cause of my painfreeness? If so, why did the shadows start to return when I went a day and a half without drinking my Chai Tea? Did the Tea make the pain and shadows go away? So what does this mean? Hell , I don't know... I do know that I, accidentally, introduced too many vairables to be truely scientific. I feel that , at least for me, the Ritalin did not have enough effect to be worth the trouble. I think that I am going to do more studies on my wife's tea. (It's a whole lot eaiser to get.) Take from this what you will. I post MY results simple to inform others as to what happened to ME. Remember, I am not a doctor. I am the sole subject in my medical experiments. My wife won't let me experiment on the kids and the dog is afraid of me. ( just kiddin') I will entertain no comments or criticisms on how it was done wrong or could have been done better or what a dumbass I am for doing it in the first place. I will; however, welcome respectful comments and answer any questions that I can. I know that this raises more questions than it answers, but isn't that the way of the beast? I hope this helps someone. PFDs to All Jim |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by Ungweliante on Oct 28th, 2008 at 4:29pm
I wish you the best of luck in your experiments!
Just remember to analyse the stuff carefully. Maybe it was not the tea, but something else, and you just have not thought of that yet. Or maybe Ritalin changed the headache in a fundamental way - effectively killing it (for now) ? It maybe it just ended naturally? Or maybe there is no spoon? Damn, science sometimes feels like such a quack job :) - Best regards and PFDAN, Rosa |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by Linda_Howell on Oct 28th, 2008 at 4:31pm Quote:
You DO know that there is no cure for CH, right? I'd settle for "tolerable" any old day. [smiley=sayyes.gif] |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by shelticon2 on Oct 28th, 2008 at 5:04pm Linda_Howell wrote on Oct 28th, 2008 at 4:31pm:
Nope...... CH done messed with the wrong person.... as a matter of fact, IT needs to start looking for a cure for ME. Jim |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by shelticon2 on Oct 28th, 2008 at 5:06pm Ungweliante wrote on Oct 28th, 2008 at 4:29pm:
Exactly right....... Jim |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by thebbz on Oct 28th, 2008 at 6:48pm
I think therefore I am.
thebb |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by Linda_Howell on Oct 28th, 2008 at 7:33pm Quote:
CH has messed with a whole LOT of wrong people. When the beast finds a cure for you please DO share with us. |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by vietvet2tours on Oct 28th, 2008 at 7:55pm shelticon2 wrote on Oct 28th, 2008 at 5:04pm:
Warfarin has been mentioned as a cure for clusters. Would ya try that? Potter |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by Batch on Oct 29th, 2008 at 1:31am
Hey Jim,
IMHO, unless your PCP/doctor was in on the off-label use of ritalin for your cluster headaches, your experiment is questionable at best, but then I'm not a doctor either, so can only comment as an interested observer. We’ve got enough problems with controlled substances within our community as it is. When using the scientific method of experimentation we try to eliminate variables or keep them constant. This is done to ensure the results are directly attributable to the primary variable being tested in order to prove the hypothesis. In this case you were looking at ritalin as the causal factor, and that it was not just a coincidence that your headache pattern changed. As you stopped taking ritalin, and changed from coffee to tea, you introduced several variables. That makes it almost impossible to say the change in your headache pattern is due to taking or stopping the intake of ritalin, stopping the intake of coffee, adding tea, or combinations of any of the above. Off hand given this was a single test, I’d say it was coincidental. The key to testing the results of an experiment is to repeat it many times to see if the results can be reproduced reliably not only by you, but by others as well to verify your results. I don’t think that’s possible with your experiment as you’ve explained it, but there’s still the possibility you may be on to something. Different types of Tea have been known to have medicinal properties for thousands of years. If you’re still gung ho in finding something that controls your cluster headaches, you may want to design another experiment around your tea of choice and avoid controlled substances unless your PCP/doctor is directly involved. Good luck… and keep good records. Take care, V/R, Batch |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by sandie99 on Oct 29th, 2008 at 4:33am
Jim,
Congrats for the PF time! :) Have you figured out what was in that tea yet? Anything special, which could be helpful? I'm just curious, because I happen to have a packet of Chai Tea at home. ;D It could be a lot of things why ch suddenly vanished, but I think that it's useful to consider many options. It's clear already that different treatments help us, and one thing does nothing to another. I do hope that you'll get a lot of more PF days, Sanna |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by kcopelin on Oct 29th, 2008 at 1:43pm
Glad something worked for you...whether Ritalin, chai tea or phase of the moon, we all know how precious the PF time is.
I happen to believe that there is a cure for CH-it has just not been discovered yet. This board, and OUCH, are our best bets for finding a cure-or many cures for that matter. PFDAN y'all kathy |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by kika on Nov 15th, 2008 at 9:54am
just wanted to mention that I take ritalin daily for ADD and still get CH's. what i would give if that were the answer...
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Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by Em on Nov 17th, 2008 at 7:15am
Jim,
Thanks for posting that. As the others have said, you can't conclusively say it was the tea that did it, but one thing I would like to say is good for you for trying to find something that works instead of just sitting around and letting the beast kick your ass. I'm not sure how good it is for you to be testing prescription drugs out :-/ but if you're a willing guinea pig, then no one should be knocking you for having a go. Quote:
Kathy's absolutely right on this. The people who have this - US - the ones who go through this day in and day out are in the best position to work with OUCH and the medical professionals to be able to find something that will get rid of these damned things. If people think that there will never be a cure, then you've just rolled over and let this walk all over you. Just because there's not now, doesn't mean there never will be. Let us know if you try this again under stricter conditions! Em |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by SouthLondonScott on Nov 17th, 2008 at 9:43am
Was the Tea you were drinking strong?
It could be that the theine in the tea had an effect, the same way caffeine does. (Caffeine is called Theine in Tea, different names for the same chemical compound) Although this would not answer for getting rid of them all together...... What were the main spice ingredients? I'm curious if Liquorice and Cardamom are listed.... Scott |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by Em on Nov 17th, 2008 at 12:07pm Quote:
Why is that Scott? The reason I ask is because the lovely Sanna once sent me an energy bar from Finland to try (because I'd had success with energy drinks). It was a liquorice bar with caffeine & taurine and whilst it didn't get rid of hits, I found it really helped with shadows. Em |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by SouthLondonScott on Nov 17th, 2008 at 12:24pm
Liquorice affects the bodies endocrine system, of which the hypothalamus is a part, which may or may not do something? I don't know? It also acts as a kind of vascular constrictor, raising blood pressure while tightening the blood vessels.....
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Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by Em on Nov 17th, 2008 at 12:30pm
You learn something new everyday.
Maybe I should be shipping in a few more of those Finnish liquorice bars. Sanna - there could be a business here for you!! |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by SouthLondonScott on Nov 17th, 2008 at 12:32pm
lol....as I said, if it does anything or not, I don't know.....
I'm just getting sick of having hit's now, so prepared to look into anything!! |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by Em on Nov 17th, 2008 at 12:39pm
Tried red bull yet?
|
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by SouthLondonScott on Nov 17th, 2008 at 12:40pm
yeah, and it worked, not as well as the coffee though.....expensive to drink all day as well.....
|
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by Em on Nov 17th, 2008 at 12:45pm
Yes it is. I also find it quite tough on my stomach.
Keeping my fingers crossed for quick arrival of o2! x |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by monty on Nov 17th, 2008 at 1:45pm Scott Lawrence wrote on Nov 17th, 2008 at 12:24pm:
Yes, real licorice has a corticosteroid-like effect. It can cause a retention of fluids (moon-face and high blood pressure) - but I don't think it is a vasoconstrictor per se. Most of the Chai I have seen has little or no licorice, though. Short term, cinnamon improves blood sugar regulation and is anti-inflammatory. Cinnamon can also be pungent/piquant/spicy/hot, which might point to a substance P regulating effect. One thing that Goadsby and others are actively pursuing for CH and migraine is a CGRP inhibitor. Some Japanese formulas containing cinnamon have been shown to do exactly that, at least in the case of women with hot flashes. Quote:
The herbal combination Keishi-bukuryo-gan is an equal part of cinnamon, 2 kinds of peony, peach kernel, and tuckahoe fungus. |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by monty on Nov 17th, 2008 at 2:09pm
Here's another study that found that keishi-bukuryo-gan protects nerves against damage caused by nitric oxide, another chemical that is greatly elevated in CH attacks. Not 100% sure, but this could be from something that sponges up the nitric oxide after it is formed. This article concluded that the cinnamon, peony root, and moutan root (tree peony) were the protective factors.
Quote:
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Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by monty on Nov 17th, 2008 at 2:33pm
Cinnamon blocks glutamate/NMDA activity, which is associated with cluster pain. It also reduces calcium influx - not clear if it is itself a calcium channel blocker, or if it only blocks calcium liberation by glutamate, but either way, that could be helpful.
Quote:
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Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by shelticon2 on Nov 17th, 2008 at 3:59pm Scott Lawrence wrote on Nov 17th, 2008 at 9:43am:
I'm pretty sure that it's not the caffeine (or theine). First of all, because the tea is not that strong and secondly, I drink Red Bull , as needed, which takes the edge off but does not rid me of shadows all together as the tea does. I will post the ingredients as soon as I can get my wife to tell me what they are.... Not that it is a secret, She just hasn't gotten around to it yet ( She is very busy)..... I do know, however, that there is no Liquorice or Cardamom but there is cinnamon included. One final thought on this.... A year ago, when I was getting hit hard and heavy, I drank the tea and noticed no effect on the hits. Could be this only chases shadows away??? Jim |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by shelticon2 on Nov 26th, 2008 at 8:19am
To those who are interested, I finally was able to get the recipe for the Chai Tea that my wife makes..
Ginger Cardamom (I sit corrected on my previous statement about it not being an ingredient) Pepper corns Cinnimon Nutmeg Fennel Seeds Anise Cloves simmer the above for 15 min. in 64oz of watter. add Sugar vanilla Cream ( I use half 'n half) let simmer 5 more min.... enjoy. I hope that this help those who try it ( if any). It has definately helped me. Jim |
Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by Melissa on Nov 27th, 2008 at 12:17pm
Well, ginger is known to some for shadows...
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Title: Re: "Ritalin?"...... Update... Post by mezza on Nov 27th, 2008 at 3:02pm
I love Chai- unfortunately for me while in cycle, any kind of tea makes me shadow like crazy...
kelly |
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