I read somewhere that CH is supposed to be the second worst pain known to men. Unfortunately I can't find it back, and also don't remember if it was an anecdotal thing, or an objective, scientifically argumented research.

Does anyone know any link where to find it?
And what pain is even worse?

Thanx in advance.
Painfree days ahead for all.

Pascal.

maalstroom wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 9:20am:

I read somewhere that CH is supposed to be the second worst pain known to men. Unfortunately I can't find it back, and also don't remember if it was an anecdotal thing, or an objective, scientifically argumented research. Does anyone know any link where to find it? And what pain is even worse? Thanx in advance. Painfree days ahead for all. Pascal.

I would assume the paper cut is #1.  Bruised ego also is up there.

I have had kidney stones, gall stones, and slipped disks... all pretty painful but nothing close to CH.

I would think, from what I have seen, that certain forms of cancer have worse pain than CH.
Sandra

Raising children (not birthing them, raising them).

I've searches the entire internet, or so it seems, digging through medical journals and all that jazz, but found nothing.

Any answers or links will be greatly appreciated.
Thanx in advance.

Try this link.  There is another Dr. also who said pretty much the same thing but I cannot find it right now.  I'll keep trying though.


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Linda

 As the leading expert in dealing with pain I promise clusters lead the list.

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      Potter

Pascal,

I recall many tears ago on this site that there was a link to BBC documentary about CH and some promenant DR saying that it indeed was THE worst pain any one can suffer.  In fact it was quoted as similar to having arms amputated without aneasthetic.  I will try to find the file but it was over 6-7 years ago I saw it.

Remember though, the level of pain is yours, it's not for you to explain to anyone because they will NEVER understand.  Each of us deal with it in many ways, personally I prefer not to even bother trying to explain to anyone other than my wife because like everything in life mate, they have had bigger better or worse than you...... only we know the painfull truth.

In closing though, I would say that my CH is the worst physical pain I have ever felt, but the mental pain of losing a loved one is worse and never stops, we have all lost someone.  Put things into perspective and hold on to the strength knowing that whatever suffering you or your partner is going through there are always the moments when the pain dissepates, the sweating stops and the breathing slows to a semi-human rate.  Then you can try to back to normal living again.

I am gueassing that your not the sufferer as you would know the severity of pain without having to compare..... it's not the second worst a MAN could experience but THE worst ANYONE can experience.

I remember also one of the postings on this site (again about 8 years ago) from one of the brave female sufferers in the US who said after having four kids, she would gladly have a child every day, without medication for the rest of her life if she could go one day without a CH.....Bless her cotton socks because that has been my yard stick for years now when I am asked why I dissapear for a few hours of bathroom wall headbanging every othere hour or so.

Either way, just hang in there, sufferer or carer.

Kind Regards

Pete

What an odd first post. Odd placement, odd subject matter. Just odd.

Why was that odd?

Hello Peter from Dubai,

Thanx for your response. Actually, I am a clusterhead and have been since my final year in high school, so that must 've been either 1992 or 1993. To me, it is in fact the most excruciating pain, but only as known to me. I have besides this, never been seriously ill save some injuries we all endure sometimes, so I have no experience to compare.
Sure, to me the CH are the worst, but maybe others have other views.

The reason for my initial post was, that I read somewhere sometime about it being second to another pain. So that knowledge kinda shook me up, but I can't find it back.
It is for instance known, that a hit is not receptive to morphine. Trying to kill the pain is not an option. As far as I know, only the constricting of the vessels gives relief, achieved by Imitrex, Oxygen.

I do not have any experience with  other headpains (except the occassional tension headache after being to busy). But maybe others are equally worse..... trigeminal neuralgia for instance? Who will enlighten me? And still very interested which pain syndrom would come first, if any is.

PF days to all.

Pascal.

And oh yeah Peter, I didn't mean men (man plural) but mankind haha.

How 'bout the "Getting to know ya" board? Hi, I'm so-and-so, been suffering for x years, yada yada yada....

Pascal,

93.. wow, mine started in 95 after a car accident.....respect!!

Your right about the constrictors though and any cardio vascular constrictor basically does it, even smoking can bring a quicker end to a bad night crawling around the bathroom floor screaming for whoever you deem to be your saviour.

As far as the medical refference to other head related (nonCH) problems, my wife was diagnosed last year with a huge sphenoidal menigioma (brain tumour the size of an orange) and we spent all of last year in oncology departments watching sufferers of many dissorders, she had her operation which wasn't successful in May last year, only to start the whole thing again in October.  She had another cranioptomy in November, again unsuccessful, and we spend every waking moment together.  The point being, and I know it sounds wierd, but she can see strength in how we deal with the terrible pain, she dealt with it because she saw me dealing with the horrible pain.  My wife is alive and well but takes more drugs than the rolling stones to keep her going.  

There are people out there who suffer pain, horrible pain.  Your not alone mate, and CH is not the only really bad one.....  What makes our CH scarey is the predictability of pain, knowing it's gonna happen, when, and how bad it will be.  

It's not about the severity of pain, but the fear of it coming, not being able to happily go to sleep for fear of the devil arriving after 20 mins or so.  Remember there are peacefull times though..... the flowing of it leaving, the day when you can go all day without a visit to you own little private pharmacy, or when you can walk past a pharmacy without having to stop.

Sorry for rambling mate, but to be honest, I've had 7 bouts today, the last one for nearly 2hrs and am not wanting to go to sleep.....havent been to bed in 3 days.

Take care buddy, and hang in there.

Whadya wanna talk about then Brew?  Never been to Wisconsin, soposed to be very peaceful, have you ever been this neck of the woods?

I am really sorry to hear about your wife's tumor, must be hard on you guys.

Yes, Peter, the fear of sleep.... but I always DO fall asleep. Only to be woken by the Beast maybe two hours orso later. God I hate those night time hits. For me, they are the worst. While in high cycle I get an average of six hits a day, of which can be generally said: 3 hits on 8 or above, 3 below.
I am not experiencing CHs right now, probably due to the Verap, but have persistent shadows. Especially since it's hot here right now, the vein in my temple does overtime. But, without crossing the threshold into real pain.

Wishing you painfree days soon, and that your wife may get better.
Regards, Pascal.

Good for you mate, keep it PF for a while.... bang on with the temple veign though, mine looks like something from a SCI-FI movie (left side).  It's hot here too, went to Abu Dhabi this morning and it was 47deg c @90% humidity.

Kind Regards
Peter

Peter in Dubai wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 6:42pm:

Whadya wanna talk about then Brew?  Never been to Wisconsin, soposed to be very peaceful, have you ever been this neck of the woods?

Stuff it, pal.

And yes, I have been to Dubai - if that's where you are indeed located.

Yes Brew, I am indeed here in Dubai, been here for 6 years now, used to live in Bahrain before (sorry mate am a Brit).

Whats wrong Brew, why so defensive?  Am just here to answer Pascals question and to pass time (while talking to anyone who understands why I won't go to sleep).

I have seen something like "CH is THE WORST pain" many times, on different sites (both English and Polish). I can't find its source tho (any official statement or sth). It's a bit like urban legend (we don't know where did it come from). Though urban legends are usually wrong and this thing about CH can be true. :-(

I think that this kind of "rankings" are kinda stupid. First of all, it's hard to compare pain if you are not a sufferer and second of all it's hard to find someone who has been suffering from CH and another huge pain. Nonetheless it's a good way of explaining how horrible CH are to someone who says "lol it's just a headache".

Another thing is that not every cluster head suffer from the worst CH. I had at least one attack every day but I had the worst ones like 5 times so far and of course I am aware that many of you have been suffering for years, with much worse attacks.

For me, and I guess many of you, CH are as painful physically as mentally. I would actually prefer to break my legs, have a three-month-long recovery or something like that. If you suffer from CH for months, most of the things doesn't work for you (+ you are suffering from another health problems) and you know that you might not find any relief and you can suffer for months and years. You can't do things you used to do and you know you won't be able to achieve in some fields you wanted to. Ah, and if you add that many people don't understand you, then it can really destroy you mentally.

Anyway I think I can imagine worse (or even much worse pain) but it would be some kind of "not natural" pain (something like tortures). For example - 3rd level burn of 90% of body (some people say there is even 4th level). I had something around 20% of 2nd level and it was really horrible (but I would prefer it over months of CH).

Best regards.

Hi Washed Out,

No it's not about ranking it. I'm just the kinda guy who wants to know just about everything about a subject once I get an interest in it. And this is off course the best place to be, with all these people who have literally lifetimes of both experience and knowledge.
Plus I'm kind of anal about my head lol!

Painfree vibes coming to Poland!

maalstroom wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 7:19pm:

No it's not about ranking it. I'm just the kinda guy who wants to know just about everything about a subject once I get an interest in it.

Hehe, I didn't take your post as a bad/stupid thing :P (if it seemed so, then apologize). I just think it's impossible to decide (objectively) what is the worst ;) And yeah, I'm kinda like you.

Btw. (that's total offtopic) I can imagine what would be the worst possible thing that can happen to the human. Something like in Johnny Got His Gun movie...


Quote:

Painfree vibes coming to Poland!

Thanks, same 2 you :)

Guessing gettin yer arm tore off and yer leg turned around backwards don't count for much.

       Potter

Well--if there's something worse, I don't want any of it.

Best,

George

It counts for a lot Potter.

Especially since that happened to you while defending our country.


Linda

Linda_Howell wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 9:33pm:

It counts for a lot Potter. Especially since that happened to you while defending our country. Linda

I couldn't have said it better myself. [smiley=bow.gif]

-Dennis-

Not sure one can really rate pain as it varies so much from person to person. But for now, my vote goes to Potter too.  ;)

And all of you stop being grumpy with each other or I'll........I'll do something really really bad to you! ;D

Guiseppi

Guiseppi wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 10:45pm:

And all of you stop being grumpy with each other or I'll........I'll do something really really bad to you! ;D Guiseppi

Do you use that line on the job?   ;)

Potter,
It does count for a lot. Most of us, myself included have been fortunate enough to never have experienced anything so traumatic or anything else nearly as painful as CH. So, we have nothing to compare it to. Your opinion and perspective is rare and valuable. Thank you very much for sharing.

I have had gall stones, herniated disks, torn rotator cuff, blown out a knee, and also the last thing which I thought was of equal level with a kip 10 was when my fellopian tubes twisted around 3x killing my ovary.  It knocked me to my knees and the dr carried me into the er.  He couldn't figure why I didn't come in sooner and I said the pain wasn't as bad as a cluster headache and he just looked at me in disbelief and then after surgery he became my best advocate for dealing with my ch and not belitteling it.  I read several years ago on the net here I believe that amputation without anastesia was suppose to be the only thing worse than ch.  

If you get hit by level 10+ clusters then that is the worst pain known.

Pain is highly subjective and interpreted differently by other afflictions in the brain and individually by each of us.

An impacted tooth affects the same nerves and is close after dealing with one for a week and the pain building.

Like potters amputation most of us will never be able to understand the pain he was subjected to. I'm sure it was more than memorable. If he says clusters are worse I believe him. I bet that wasnt the first thought at the time though.

Same for a lot of other pain issues. Its comforting to suggest CH may be the 2nd worse pain though.

Kip-10s are without question the most pain I've suffered, but surely more painful must be the suffering of those who see us go through it and are powerless to help.

My heart goes out to our supporters.

Exactly Brian, our supporters go through hell with us. Imagine what it must be like to see your beloved ones in an immense state of pain, while being unable to take the pain away.
My parents were great supporters back then (I've had them since my final year in high school...the CH that is, not my parents  ;)). My dad still races from the other side of the city when I call him.

My gf Sonja (pronounce Sonya) has seen me go through 3 episodes now, and I know it scares her to death. Still she does anything to offer some relief, bringing me water, energy drink, something frozen. I do not even have to ask, she just knows what to do.
I remember one particular nasty one last episode. Had a 10 from about 23:30 hours to just before 3 in the morning (for some reason I keep track), going through each room, groaning moaning screaming begging to any God who would listen, throwing myself to the floor or on the sofa, and she stayed by my side the whole time. Unfortunately, about 30 minutes after that another really heavy one started. I had to ORDER her to go to bed lol, or she would've stayed up with me all night.

Funny thing though. Whenever I'd wake up and as soon as I got out of bed, she was awake too. No matter how hard I tried not to wake her up, it won't work. Seems as if she is on red alert as soon as I get into cycle.

Sorry for going on and on, just had to say it.

PF vibes to all.
Pascal.

You are a lucky man, Pascal, to have such a wonderful girlfriend.  The power of love can work wonders.
Love,
Sandra

It is the worst pain known to man. At least this man. Heartache ranks a big second. All the rest they have dope for.

POTTER...YOU DA MAN!!!!!
Killem all and let God sort em out.
Thank you for giving your all....and more.
thebb

I dont know about the second but i have had a two story 2x 8 wall fall on me, full sheeted with windows and ill take that, over a bad 3 hour CH, I had a bad military accident where my arm was violently ripped out of the socket, (fully recovered, kinda, with alot of surgerys) and ill still take that over CH. So I Imagine that alot of things written about what is or is not worse are written by those who have not suffered a 3 hour battle with the beast only for it to return 2 hours later to laugh at you and tell you im back ***** you ready? I know your all out of Imitrex and that O2 dont work with me. feel me? Im commin? thats the differnce with accidental amputation, amputation is usually quick, immagine if it were done with a dull butter knife, and you had to make an appointment, say everynight about 2 hours afer you feel asleep for weeks, months. Something about knowing the pain is coming makes it so much worse.
Sorry if i sound bitter, am going through a bad bad cycle.

I have never had any pain even remotely comparable to a Kip 10.  CH to me, is THE most painful experience I have ever had.  

I don't think anything would top the loss of a loved one.  I have not ever personally lost anyone, but have beared witness to the pain of many that have.  If I never have to go through that I will be happy to hang on to CH for my lifetime.

Thomas

wrote on Jul 28^th, 2008 at 3:37pm:

I don't think anything would top the loss of a loved one.  I have not ever personally lost anyone, but have beared witness to the pain of many that have.  If I never have to go through that I will be happy to hang on to CH for my lifetime. Thomas

Physical pain of ch and the emotional pain of losing a loved one are apples and oranges........not the same thing.  That being said, I would choose ch over the loss of a loved one any day.

Beth

wrote on Jul 28^th, 2008 at 8:44pm:

wrote on Jul 28th, 2008 at 3:37pm: I don't think anything would top the loss of a loved one.  I have not ever personally lost anyone, but have beared witness to the pain of many that have.  If I never have to go through that I will be happy to hang on to CH for my lifetime. Thomas Physical pain of ch and the emotional pain of losing a loved one are apples and oranges........not the same thing.  That being said, I would choose ch over the loss of a loved one any day. Beth

I prefer to call it comparing headache to heartache.  Pain is pain, they both affect body, mind and spirit.  So, in the spirit of the posted question, I would have to place the pain of CH second to the pain of the unimaginable...

Linda_Howell wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 9:33pm:

It counts for a lot Potter. Especially since that happened to you while defending our country. Linda

These words will surely be inadequate but thank you Potter, for the service and sacrifice you made for me and my family.  You and all of the  other brave men and women that have fought for our country are the reason that we can live the lives we live!  

It should be called "Sacrificedom" instead of Freedom.  Maybe people would appreciate it more!

Blessings,

Jeannie

Potter, I second Linda and Jean's comments, and everyone else who's chimed in to thank you.

As for rating pain... hmm... when civilians ask me about these "headaches" I get, I try and describe them, but I doubt it really hits home. To be expected I suppose. One thing I've hit on recently is to compare it to the familiar "brain freeze" of eating something cold too fast - the very extreme and most debilitating first few moments, that hard quick searing shot - and then tell the person to try that on for an hour or so, a few times every day for a few months. And then I add that this is still inadequate. Which tends to quiet them down.

I can't of speak for things like cancer, limb amputation or of course childbirth, but for men, a hard shot to the jewels is a pretty tough row to hoe...

David

A recent experience has me explaining it this way.

Have you ever stubbed your toe really hard on a sharp edge?  You remember that initial searing &%$!# pain that eases off to a dull throb? Well, keep that searing pain constant and stick it in your eye....for kicks put it in your jaw, then your sinuses and leave it there for an hour or so.  That is how I have described the pain.  On top of the pain there is there non-stop sinus draining, eye tearing and forehead sweating.  All of this causes us to pace scream and cry and hide..........

Beth

I don't know...  I would think that 3rd degree burns over 70% of your body would be more painful than my CH's.  Just happened to a guy yesterday who works at the paper mill with hubbys Uncle.  It'll take at least 7 months to recoop, but we'll see...

I don't usually compare my pain with others.  Thresholds are all different. :-/

I am a supporter so I can't begin to speak for the pain. It is all so different that it seems futile to compare. A kip 10 hit appears to be awful, horribe and any other bad word but when the o2 sets in it's over until the next round. I am with Melissa and would vote for a burn patient. Several years ago one of my students was severaly burned inside her lungs and 90% of her body. Eventually the pain left her body but she spent 6 months ina burn unit. She came back to us scarred and miserable, unable to run and play. She wore guards across her face and hands to protect the tender new skin. This went on for the 2 years I had her until she went onto middle school. I've lost track of Melanie over time. I'm sure Potter's injuries in those early days were as miserable. Hopefully Melanie has learned to adjust as well as Potter has.

Charlotte

Charlotte, nothing will touch a kip 10 for me.  I can only wish there was something that did...

Melissa wrote on Aug 5^th, 2008 at 9:06pm:

Charlotte, nothing will touch a kip 10 for me.  I can only wish there was something that did...

I'm sorry Melissa. I remember the first months with Lisa how hard it was until she got o2. I can't imagine going through that again.

Charlotte

Hi all,

This question wasn't meant as a ''rating my pain'' thingy. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.
I'm just very interested which pain syndrom is worse. Anyone knows this? Still can't find it back, have been back and forth searching.

What is so horrible about CH to me is, that the pain is so constant throughout a hit. If you burn your hand while cooking or putting something in the oven, it hurts like hell for a few moments, but then subsides. CH doesn't have that. A kip10 means to me, being tortured up to 3 hours with knitting needles being jammed into my eye, temple, on the top of my skull, seering pain in my cheekbone and eyesocket and so forth. So to me, that is the worst pain I know.

But which pain is objectively even worse? Any ideas?

Thanx, Pascal.

maalstroom wrote on Aug 13^th, 2008 at 1:53am:

But which pain is objectively even worse? Any ideas? Thanx, Pascal.

I've always thought that CH was the worse pain.  Don't know where you got the "second worse pain" information from.

Some good points here regarding different types of pain, even emotional pain. Also, how pain is perceived and thresholds, etc. I often have taken the view that I am aflicted with CHA  to humble me (and how!). Also, I've come to believe that God is real, and suffers the pain of each of us alive in this physical world - and all at the same time! Considering the number of people starving, dying slow deaths from so many diseases, and so much hopelessness in the world - I view the full impact, of all of this, as immense pain for the Creator looking on, as well as feeling with, each of us that he has created. Fortunately He is strong and able to keep going. He also will help us through our agonizing attacks, as hard as it is to understand why we have to suffer like this. I try to realize there is more pain, than I will ever experience - even with multiple-dailly hits. I have been in remission for several years at this point. So easy for me to say - but I did think this way even when in a long cycle. Please forgive me if you can't relate to this point of view. I'm going to post a poem that in part expresses this. I wrote it early on in my dealing with Clusters. I think there is a forum for this - going to look now.
Hoping PFDAN's for you all, Rich

I think Potter's got this one on pain. I think he would know pain quite well, and he even says CH are the worst.
Thank you with all of my heart Potter for defending our country!

I fractured my arm in 5 places that was nothing id take that over CH anyday

Emotional pain and physical pain are 2 diffrant things and IMO can not be bunched togeather

However i would take my CH over loosing a loved one every time, i would consider loosing a aunt uncle or cousin to stop the CH though to be honest

I watched a documentary on Discovery channel about poisonous snakes and I forget the variety that was worst, but they said it was the most painful pain there was?

They say the venom contains a powerful neurotoxin capable of killing you in 15 min.

I would still vote for the red hot fork in the eye as #1 because the pain is so unbearable when you need your brain to help you deal with the pain, the brain goes on vacation and leaves you little to help you cope with the train wreck happening behind your eye.

At least with the snake bite you’ll have an end in sight soon! ;D

My Uncle Morty and Aunt Gladys have been trying to get rid of each other for the last 40 years!

I'm going with if Potter says it's the worst, I believe him. Thank you so much for your sacrifice...

In my personal experience... I've had a lot of pain, bone pain from juvenille osteoporosis, from the compression fractures, from them jamming needles into nerve roots during lumbar punctures (it happens more often than you would think.) and even the 36 hours after my appendix ruptured and stayed in me... None of it compared to the cluster headaches. I screamed a little with some of those, but not like this. None of it made me willing to do anything to make the pain stop.

Edited to add: I think I just remembered the most painful thing next to cluster headaches I remember... waking up after flatlining! My whole body ached.

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Has a transcript of an interview with Dr Peter Goadsby a CH specialist that said "Cluster headache is probably the worst pain that humans experience".

That said you can only compare to what you have had. Personally for me the only other noteworthy cases of physical pain are:

2nd degree burns up my side/chest when I caught on fire.
3rd degree burns on my thumb (Had CH at the time, was cooking carelessly)
3 shattered molars to various causes (but I really should eat/drink less sugar :p)
Dislocated shoulder (fell down stairs)
My right nipple burned off by cleaning chemicals (funny but true :P)

Anyway for me none of the above even rates in the same league as a 9/10 CH for intensity of pain.

Bad teeth can cause you a sleepless night, but really its a severe ache compared to an icepick through the eye and drill through the temple...

The burns, I was lucky to have the medical supplies handy to have both treated quickly which helped avoid scarring. Alcohol was enough to take my mind off the pain on the chest. And while I thought to myself "this is going to hurt" as I watched the skin on my thumb shrivel and shrink compared to the two months of CH id been going through at the time it didnt even make me flinch. For me part of the burns not being as bad is there seems to be a limit to the intensity. Yes it really really really burns, and it keeps up for days really, but medication/treatment seems much more effective at easing the pain compared to a CH.

As for the shoulder I just put it back in myself to the horror of my friends/family and again didnt find it so bad. Having talked afterwards to a doctor he said putting it back in quickly probably prevented the swelling which causes the pain usually involved so I guess I cant comment properly.

And for the nipple well. It hurt a LOT less than you would think. Id rate it EXTREME discomfort rather than actual pain :o

Yikes, Spot.... that's quite a litany!

And your predicament reminds me: What do you call 500 Indian women without nipples? (start cringing now, here it comes) The Indiannipless 500.

I think this is a very interesting threat, more so because I get to compare it to my own condition.

Today I had to make a trip to the ER. I managed to trip and fall on the floor so that the nail from my left big toe ripped off. I'd say that the pain I experienced then was pretty intensive and around the same that the worst of my attacks have been. Except that it lasted at least an hour before it started to settle down a bit.

But does this mean that I don't have CH then? Or is pain so subjective? Don't I get the very high-KIP hits then, even if it is CH? Normal CH meds are not seemingly affecting me anyways, is that a clue to me not having CH?

I don't know, but I do know that I get intense hour-long headaches 2-3 times per day, with the normal symptoms of CH - droopy eye, runny nose, etc. They often make me unable to do anything else. I've also understood that the high-KIP level hits are rare. Whatever or however it might be, I think that pain all in all is something I'd rather be without. I also think any kind of "my pain is worst" -competition is childish - there are many types of intense pain and people feel pain at different levels. What can be a screamer for someone is just gritting teeth to someone else.

Altogether I wish that we all and people in general would have a little less pain. The world could really use it.

- Best regards,
Rosa

Pain to a certain extent is subjective, as what your tolerance is changes how you percieve it. Just because you've never had higher than a 3, I don't think that means you don't have it. You've just been lucky enough not to experience one higher than that.

I didn't think this was any kind of a competition, just that everyone was comparing their worst pain to their CH pain.

Apparently my toe has a joint fracture. No wonder it hurt so much.

Anyways, I'm not sure if you were speaking personally or just generally, but I've certainly had worse hits than KIP 3. Or at least in my opinion. A lot of people seem to be reading the KIP scale differently...I've heard opinions that a very bad migraine is just KIP 4 or so. Yet, according to the KIP scale, you can still go to sleep at KIP 6. I'm usually able to get sleep through a moderate migraine, but not an extremely bad one. With CHs, I have had hits where I have been able to lie in bed, but also hits which have made me somewhat unable to sense my surroundings from the pain.

I think something what should be thought about is the quality or type of the pain we experience. Pain can be sharp, cutting, dull, throbbing, piercing, boring and so on. I think it can be sometimes difficult to compare two different types of pain accurately.

- Best regards and PFDAN to everyone,
Rosa

Ack, actually I misread part of what you typed, I thought you said if you only had ones that on the kip scale were 3's. (Gooo sleep deprivation! -_-; )

OW on the joint fracture. I hope it feels better soon. I know when I had my first compression fracture, it left me on the floor screaming bloody murder and incapacitated for a good while from the pain.

All I know, is that it IS the worst pain I go through. I rarely get sick, per se, the only real problem I have is these headaches that come on once in a while, it is the only thing that can bring me to tears begging for relief. Even a toothache didn't hurt as much.

[quote author=566D6474666F6A626D7766030 link=1217164808/50#57 date=1219101258]  I also think any kind of "my pain is worst" -competition is childish - [/quote

Rosa, I never intended it to be.
I am just really curious.

Pascal.

Pixie-elf, np :)

Pascal, ok then. To recapitulate, my answer would be that a lot of pain is subjective. It's difficult to say if CH is the worst, the second worst or even the 10th worst pain that is there. In my opinion, it depends on the person experiencing the pain and also the level of the CH-attack. My CH, although very painful, isn't the worst pain I've experienced.

I also wanted to emphasise the point that all pain is uncomfortable. Whether it's a very bad migraine, a compound fracture, or continous rheumatism, it's something that can make the person suffering it very unhappy. The tolerance to physical pain is one thing, but yet another thing is the invidual tolerance to the psychological effects caused by that pain. Various things can make people feel or remember the pain as more difficult or easier to handle. All this makes it very difficult to say what or which pain is ultimately worse than some other, although of course there are some clear cases here.

- PFDAN to everyone,
Rosa

maalstroom wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 9:20am:

I read somewhere that CH is supposed to be the second worst pain known to men. Unfortunately I can't find it back, and also don't remember if it was an anecdotal thing, or an objective, scientifically argumented research. Does anyone know any link where to find it? And what pain is even worse? Thanx in advance. To quote the venerable bill cosby childbirth is the worst pain when he tried to comfort his wife and ask her what it was like to be in labor she replied"Take your bottom lip and stretch it over your head until it touches the back of your neck" I dont really know if this is the worst pain ever but I thought I would share and maybe make someone smile. Thanks PF days to everyone Pascal.

worst pain ever wrote on Aug 21^st, 2008 at 6:54am:

maalstroom wrote on Jul 27th, 2008 at 9:20am: I read somewhere that CH is supposed to be the second worst pain known to men. Unfortunately I can't find it back, and also don't remember if it was an anecdotal thing, or an objective, scientifically argumented research. Does anyone know any link where to find it? And what pain is even worse? Thanx in advance. To quote the venerable bill cosby childbirth is the worst pain when he tried to comfort his wife and ask her what it was like to be in labor she replied"Take your bottom lip and stretch it over your head until it touches the back of your neck" I dont really know if this is the worst pain ever but I thought I would share and maybe make someone smile. Thanks PF days to everyone Pascal.

"And my point in quoting Pascal without commenting myself was ______________."
(you fill in the blank)

Ungweliante,

I think your statement is key "and also the level of the CH-attack". I rarely say this, as I don't want to contribute to anyone potentially getting worse - but in my case (and others) cluster attack pain increases over time. I was chronic as a teenager with one attack daily at 9am like clock work. It was exactly 45 minutes long. Almost easier being on a schedule and able to prepare to some extent. I didn't take much in the way of meds at the time as I was getting away from all drugs including pain meds, and hadn't been properly diagnosed yet. These once daily attacks were "mild" in comparison to what came later. I still had the tearing eye and burning temple/back of eyeball type of attack, but it was around KIP 7 or so. I later experienced KIP10++ which lasted much longer on each hit and multiple times daily, and multiple times at night as well. Also encompassing jaw, face, back of head, and neck - What a nightmare. The good news in my case is that I went to episodic after seeing a specialist. Bad news worse hits for 6-8 weeks, but long periods of remission which seem to get longer between each cycle (more good news). Everyone should keep in mind that some early on in their cluster experience may not get KIP 10's, this does not mean they don't have clusters and that they don't suffer. I think this causes a lot of cluster sufferers to get chased away from here, where they do (or will) need to get help and support. My 2 cents. Blessings, Rich

StressFree wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2008 at 8:51pm:

Ungweliante, I think your statement is key "and also the level of the CH-attack". I rarely say this, as I don't want to contribute to anyone potentially getting worse - but in my case (and others) cluster attack pain increases over time. I was chronic as a teenager with one attack daily at 9am like clock work. It was exactly 45 minutes long. Almost easier being on a schedule and able to prepare to some extent. I didn't take much in the way of meds at the time as I was getting away from all drugs including pain meds, and hadn't been properly diagnosed yet. These once daily attacks were "mild" in comparison to what came later. I still had the tearing eye and burning temple/back of eyeball type of attack, but it was around KIP 7 or so. I later experienced KIP10++ which lasted much longer on each hit and multiple times daily, and multiple times at night as well. Also encompassing jaw, face, back of head, and neck - What a nightmare. The good news in my case is that I went to episodic after seeing a specialist. Bad news worse hits for 6-8 weeks, but long periods of remission which seem to get longer between each cycle (more good news). Everyone should keep in mind that some early on in their cluster experience may not get KIP 10's, this does not mean they don't have clusters and that they don't suffer. I think this causes a lot of cluster sufferers to get chased away from here, where they do (or will) need to get help and support. My 2 cents. Blessings, Rich

I can agree with this.

On my own personal pain scale, what I at first thought was a 9, one week, suddenly became a 6 in 2 weeks, because the pain got worse. Make sense? ^^;

Makes perfectly sense, Pixie.
Last cycle I had Kip10's, which I had not have as worse since the 90's. Difference though was, that I use to get these suicidal thoughts, ya know: don't wanna live with this kinda pain.
But nowadays when I get the 10's, I try to hold on to the thought that this hit WILL end.
What I hate is, the worst the painlevel is, the longer the hits are. Even more evil is, that those 10's do not always respond to the injectable, and ya have to ride it out.

Painfree days to all.

P.S. Worst Pain Ever misquoted me, as I never said anything about Bill Cosby.

maalstroom wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2008 at 5:27am:

Makes perfectly sense, Pixie. Last cycle I had Kip10's, which I had not have as worse since the 90's. Difference though was, that I use to get these suicidal thoughts, ya know: don't wanna live with this kinda pain. But nowadays when I get the 10's, I try to hold on to the thought that this hit WILL end. What I hate is, the worst the painlevel is, the longer the hits are. Even more evil is, that those 10's do not always respond to the injectable, and ya have to ride it out. Painfree days to all. P.S. Worst Pain Ever misquoted me, as I never said anything about Bill Cosby.

The suicidal ones for me are "Anything to make this pain stop." I've advised my family to keep any sharp objects or anything I could hurt myself with away from me. (I'm more afraid I might jab myself in the eye with something...)  It's not that I want to die, it's that I want the pain to end.

You could try what I do, when you get those thoughts (you'd need to set it up beforehand) maybe make a little book or wall-hanging with pictures of the things you have to live for, and look at that. Even though hanging on to "it WILL" end is good, it never hurts to have backups. :)