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        New Message Board Archives >> Jul-Sep 2003 >> Opinion Poll: Shadows
        
(Message started by: KingOfPain on Aug 6^th, 2003, 4:10am)

Title: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by KingOfPain on Aug 6^th, 2003, 4:10am

From:
http://clusterheadaches.com/search.html (for shadows)

Then:
http://www.clusterheadaches.com/wwwboard/messages/4149.html

Posted on clusterheadaches.com Message Board (old version):

Posted by M on November 21, 1998 at 01:27:55:

In Reply to: Shadows posted by Bill on November 20, 1998 at 23:06:14:

Hey Bill...

I don't consider myself an expert on the subject of 'shadows', but I think the general concensus of the club would be that 'shadows' are best described as that persistent feeling that the cluster has not gone away, entirely, or, that it is hovering around, waiting to attack again.

Shadows, for me at least, frequently last for hours after a full-blown episode, and sometimes it is followed by another cluster and sometimes it isn't. On the other hand, sometimes there is no 'shadow' after an episode.

During the time the 'shadow' lurks, one generally has a feeling of exhaustion (although that may simply be the after effects of the cluster which preceded the shadow).

I hope this helps.

M
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
http://www.nursesnetwork.co.uk/surgery/neurology/02_05_06clusthead.shtml

Shadows

You may often see people referring to "shadows" when discussing clusters. From reading many hundreds of posts on the subject, it is obvious that people do mean sightly different things when using the term.

Many episodic sufferers use the term to describe the milder attacks that they get before and after a bout. The feeling is that of a cluster attack trying to break through, yet not completely succeeding - as if the "beast" is just exercising his muscles for the main event. These attacks are often left untreated, even by people who would dash for their Imigran/Oxygen at the first sign of a "normal" attack. They might last for the usual length of time, but not have all the other symptoms (runny eye etc.) For lots of sufferers this is a very useful warning sign to get to their GPs and organise the necessary meds.

Another use of the term is that of an attack which occurs in the main bout, but is less painful, often merely annoying. It does however last for considerably longer than a normal attack, and can frequently be gone through unmedicated. If medication is used, however, it is often less effective. Sleep is a pretty universal cure for these attacks. It is partly this that has led many to speculate that this is really a migraine-based attack, either confused with CH symptoms, or a genuine migraine that, because the sufferer is so attuned to CH, is confused with it. The fact that different drugs may be effective also lends some support to this view.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shadows

What say you gang? ???

Thank you for your time Clusterville.

KingOfPain (who has been kinda perplexed by this term & descriptions)

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by ozzman on Aug 6^th, 2003, 7:45am

KOP,

My understanding and the way I use the term is basically is that HA between attacks or after a pretty powerful attack that is mainly dull, sometimes not CH specific. Lasts for hours and gradually "migrates" to my CH pain-side and starts concentrating around the the eye, etc, until it becomes a "real" CH. I have had shadows that last 4-6 hours (it's like residual pain) until I get tired of them and do something about it. It's this kind of shadow were tablets (Amerge, Zomig, etc) are useful. I usually am heavy with shadows before a cycle starts (say amonth prior, which is my only predictor) and at the end of a cycle as well.

As a matter of fact, I have a pretty good shadow right now, and I can obviously still work.

Hope this helps.

Ozzy

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by Big_Dan on Aug 6^th, 2003, 8:49am

For me.... shadows are that "black hole" feeling in my left temple duing the length of the cycle...

... they preceed the big attacks, and come back after the attacks....

To me, they don't even hurt 90% of the time, it's just like the beast has sat down in his lawn chair, and lit up a cigarette to take a break from releasing all unholy Hell in my head...

-Big Dan

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by CJohnson on Aug 6^th, 2003, 10:27am

I have always thought of shadows as times when I feel "activity" in the area where the full attacks occur. They barely hurt at all and only last a minute or two. I usually feel normal between attacks except for the exhaustion.

PFDANs
-Curtis

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by echo on Aug 6^th, 2003, 10:43am

Mine hide behind the right eye. Not painful but just there. They come and go throughout the day. Guess its the beasts way of letting me know he's still there. I may go for days with shadows and not have a major hit. I may go for days without shadows, then have a small shadow and next get blasted.

He's a mutant bastard!

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by Joshman420 on Aug 6^th, 2003, 10:56am

When I am in cycle ... The Beast has a grip on my left eye, and left side of my face, 24/7.

When the Beast squeezes his grip as hard as he can. Thats when its a fullblown Headache attack.

When he is being nice, and not squeezing very hard ... but he still has that grip, he doesnt let go ... thats what I call shadows.

Once my cycle is over, his grip seems to be gone ...

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by brain_cramps on Aug 6^th, 2003, 11:10am

Godd question, KOP.

Until this last cycle, I never had any HAs after the end of a cycle. The cycle would end as quickly as it started.

After my last cycle, I had a number of low-KIP HAs that lasted for months, every few days. These felt a lot like 'shadows'.

Before a cycle hits, I can feel the 'pressure' building for about a week before I really get hit. While these are not as bad as a real CH, they also feel like 'shadows'.

For me to define shadows, I would have to include the above-mentioned HAs, even though I think that 'shadow' usually refers to lower-KIP HAs that happen while in cycle.

confused yet?

grant 8)

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by BillyJ. on Aug 6^th, 2003, 11:21am

To me a shadow is anything 5 or lower on the kip scale.
If I can sit/stand still through it it ain't a real hit.I can
usualy tell weather it is going to go full blown within a
few minutes but not always. I do ,on occasion,
have a shadow spread out over the rest of my head
and develope into a migraine.O2 doesn't seam to do much for the shadows,but they don't last that long,
usualy about 20 minutes.
There is also a 'bruised' feeling that lingers long after
and sometimes before a long bout with a real head
banger.
PF2ALL,
Billy

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by Drk^Angel on Aug 6^th, 2003, 4:15pm

Shadows to me is the piercing, annoying pain during a cycle, occuring in the area where an attack would would hit, but not bad enough to disrupt most activities. They seem to last most of the day between attacks, and they can be anywhere from dull to sharp in nature. Sleep doesn't cure them, and in fact, I many times can find it difficult to sleep if they're sharp enough.

PFDAN................................... Drk^Angel

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by maria9 on Aug 6^th, 2003, 7:30pm

Good question KOP, after 22 years of the cluster business I consider myself somewhat of an expert on this topic. In the initial stages of a cluster siege, I would have what you call shadows 24/7. It seemed as though the blood vessels in the brain were enlarged, pressing on the trigeminal nerve thus causing the pain. Low grade pain, slight stuffiness in the nose, an annoying but slight headache that would persist throughout the day, but enough to get me alarmed about what was ultimately in store for me. But later when the cluster headaches ramped up to the point where I was having them every two hours at night, the shadows as you put it, were more like post cluster sequela. As the trigeminal nerve was being assaulted by unidentified forces, every two hours at night unmercifully, its only resource was to ache and throb at regular intervals the following day, not knowing what the following night would behold. Have you ever felt those throbs of pain, after a night of severe headaches, where the trigeminal nerve is saying Ok, enough already.

Maria ( 22 years of clusters, mercifully 8 years pain free)

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by 9erfan on Aug 6^th, 2003, 7:36pm

For me, shadows are a dull aching pain that just hangs around in between the hard hits. Because I'm chronic, these are NOT a daily thing for me. In fact 80% of my days are fairly tolerable. But I tend to get "episodes" amoungst my chronic days. When I start getting shadows I know things are going to start getting bad because I will have virtually no pain-free time. This lasts for 3 or 4 weeks for me.

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by suzy617 on Aug 6^th, 2003, 8:02pm

I consider shadows to be what I usually start up with in the beginning of my cycle for a couple weeks. Thats how I know when to start my preventives. Its like a slight headache with pressure under my eye, I guess like a very mini CH which I just keep taking advils for. Annoying but thats about it.
Hey KOP, How YOU doing?? ;)

Suzy

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by KingOfPain on Aug 7^th, 2003, 10:09am

Thank you to all that have replied to this poll/question! You rock! :)

It seems to me this topic (shadows) is the one thing all/a lot of us experience but at the same time have a little different take on what they mean to each of us.

So far, it seems a well received poll question with some great insite/answers/opinions from you all.

*Thanks to anyone that may reply in the future to this poll.*

http://tinyurl.com/jb1j

http://tinyurl.com/jb1

http://tinyurl.com/jb1r

http://tinyurl.com/jb1t

http://tinyurl.com/jb1u

;)

KingOfPain

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by KingOfPain on Aug 7^th, 2003, 10:12am

on 08/06/03 at 20:02:24, suzy617 wrote:

Hey KOP, How YOU doing?? ;)

Suzy

Suzy,

Doing ok.

Go to the Dr. today at 3:00 pm to get my cast off.

Still, no CH....... yahooooooo!!!! :)

KingOfPain

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by ave on Aug 7^th, 2003, 10:22am

Like Curts, the feeling thet it's there, but it does not hurt. Like an attack that is behind soundproof glass.

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by andy on Aug 7^th, 2003, 1:06pm

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shadow A feeling or cause of gloom or unhappiness. A faint indication; a foreshadowing. darkness or gloom like that caused by the presence or the impending of death. a premonition of something adverse

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by forgetfulnot on Aug 7^th, 2003, 1:10pm

I don't get shadows, never have. Guess I'm lucky all I get is CLUSTER MF HEADACHES :)

Lee

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by vig on Aug 7^th, 2003, 3:50pm

I'm having one right now, thank you.

It's like going through the usual routine only it doesn't hurt. It just makes me anxious that I'm going to somehow kick it out of neutral and into high gear.

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by 2late on Aug 7^th, 2003, 4:14pm

on 08/06/03 at 10:43:14, echo wrote:

AGREED........the only thing i can add is sometimes day's of this shit can put me over the edge & no abortive meds ever help my shadows. ...............Jack

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by iJun G4 on Aug 8^th, 2003, 10:39am

My definition of "shadows" is simple:

An attack without actual pain.

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by goaway on Aug 9^th, 2003, 10:31am

Quote:

In the initial stages of a cluster siege, I would have what you call shadows 24/7. It seemed as though the blood vessels in the brain were enlarged, pressing on the trigeminal nerve thus causing the pain. Low grade pain, slight stuffiness in the nose, an annoying but slight headache that would persist throughout the day, but enough to get me alarmed about what was ultimately in store for me. Maria ( 22 years of clusters, mercifully 8 years pain free)

Yep! That's my ol' buddy!

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by Patrick_A on Aug 9^th, 2003, 11:00am

Shadows to me are that activity on the CH side of the head that is a precursor of things to come.
After a CH, i sometimes carry a nagging bitch of a headache around until the next CH hits. The nagging bitch usually hovers from a 2 to a 5. Pretty damn close to a Migraine.

Patrick

Title: Re: Opinion Poll: Shadows
Post by Prense on Aug 9^th, 2003, 11:18am

A shadow HA sometimes preceeds an attack for me and sometimes it doesn't. I consider a shadow a HA that doesn't ramp up above a 5 and "lingers" around for longer than a couple of hours. Like others have described, most of my shadows are very mild in nature, and I do not even consider them painful. For me, shadows, HAs or whatever do not begin to concentrate at my right eye until a 4 or so. Even these shadows are very resistant to meds for me. Maxalt 10mg wont touch them 90% of the time. Like I said previously, I can't tell if it is preceeding an attack or not. Normally, if I don't get hit within the 1st hour of a shadow, I'll just have the shadow to deal with. After 4+ hours of even a "mild" shadow, it still can get very annoying. I normally will not have shadows following an attack. Attacks ramp down very quickly for me to a 0 when they decide to go. I do get the "wake up" 5, ramp to 8 back down to 5 back up to 7...that roller coaster can run a few hours, but the individual attacks are normally no longer than 2 hours in duration.

Chris