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(Message started by: TerryS on Aug 1st, 2003, 11:07am)
Title: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by TerryS on Aug 1st, 2003, 11:07am
Subject: God Does Exist


                                   GOD DOES EXIST      

A man went to a barber shop to have his hair and his beard cut as always.
He started to have a good conversation with the barber who attended him.
They talked about so many things and various subjects. Suddenly, they
touched the subject of God.

The barber said: "Look man, I don't believe that God exists as you say."

"Why do you say that?" asked the client.

"Well, it's so easy, all you have to do is go out in the street to realize that God  

does not exist.   Oh, tell me, if God existed, would there be so many sick people?  

Would there be abandoned children?   If God existed, there would be no suffering nor pain.  

I can't think of loving a God who permits all of these things."

The client stopped for a moment thinking, but didn't want to respond so as not to cause an argument.  

The barber finished his job and the client left the shop.

Just after leaving the barber shop he saw a man in the street with long hair
and beard (it seems that it had been a long time since he had his cut and he
looked so untidy).

The client went back to the barber shop and said to the barber:
"You know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How can you say they don't exist?" asked the barber. "Well, I am here and
am a barber."

"No!" the client exclaimed. "They don't exist because if they did there
would be no people with long hair and beard like that man who walks in the
street."

"Ah, barbers do exist, what happens is that people do not come to me."

"Exactly!"- affirmed the client. "That's the point. God does exist, what
happens is people don't go to Him and do not look for Him. That's why
there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Prense on Aug 1st, 2003, 11:29am

Quote:
GOD DOES EXIST


I thought when I was hatched it pretty much ended that debate  ;D
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by cootie on Aug 1st, 2003, 12:18pm
I was born on a Miller lite beere can on a wild african beer tree.  ;D ;D ;D  

Seriously tho......."thanks Terry" for the story.  :)  Pam that see's beer tabs  ;)
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Prense on Aug 1st, 2003, 12:40pm
At least you were specific enough to specify what type of beer can...prolly would want to leave that open for interpretation to this crowd.   ;D

Chris
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by athos12 on Aug 1st, 2003, 12:49pm
Ya God does exist, we are just his source of entertainment.


In the beginning, God created the bit. And the bit was a zero; nothing.

On the first day, He toggled the 0 to 1, and the Universe was. (In those days, bootstrap loaders were simple, and "active low" signals didn't yet exist.)

On the second day, God's boss wanted a demo, and tried to read the bit. This being volatile memory, the bit reverted to a 0. And the universe wasn't. God learned the importance of backups and memory refresh, and spent the rest of the day ( and his first all-nighter ) reconstructing the universe.

On the third day, the bit cried "Oh, Lord! If you exist, give me a sign!" And God created rev 2.0 of the bit, even better than the original prototype. Those in Universe Marketing immediately realized the the "new and improved" wouldn't do justice to such a grand and glorious creation. And so it was dubbed the Most Significant Bit, or the Sign bit. Many bits followed, but only one was so honored.

On the fourth day, God created a simple ALU with 'add' and 'logical shift' instructions. And the original bit discovered that by performing a single shift instruction, it could become the Most Significant Bit. And God realized the importance of computer security.

On the fifth day, God created the first mid-life kicker, rev 2.0 of the ALU, with wonderful features, and said "Screw that add and shift stuff. Go forth and multiply." And God saw that it was good.

On the sixth day, God got a bit overconfident, and invented pipelines, register hazards, optimizing compilers, crosstalk, restartable instructions, microinterrupts, race conditions, and propagation delays. Historians have used this to convincingly argue that the sixth day must have been a Monday.

On the seventh day, an engineering change introduced UNIX into the Universe, and it hasn't worked right since.
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Prense on Aug 1st, 2003, 1:02pm
...the bit bit the apple, they were banished from the garden, then I was hatched... I was trying to make a long story short.  Sorry athos.    ;D


Oh, and sometime later, Pam fell out of a tree in the form of a Miller lite beeeeeer can....


Chris
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by athos12 on Aug 1st, 2003, 1:06pm
;)
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Charlie on Aug 1st, 2003, 6:32pm
Thanks Terry. You know how to pick the good ones.

Very nice to meet you but I'm sorry I didn't get to talk to you more.

Charlie
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by TerryS on Aug 1st, 2003, 8:05pm
Me too Charlie, I so much wanted to vist with you.

TerryS
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Big_Dan on Aug 2nd, 2003, 12:23am
... good stuff, Bro... gunna have to share that one...



-Big Dan
Title: ohhh... kin i play?
Post by rumplestiltskin on Aug 2nd, 2003, 1:54am
...now that's a trite homily! Cute... and goes down smooth. Mix it with some righteous henchmen and ya got folks dying cause some "saint" is tryin to end "pain and suffering" by shooting the godlessness outta the world.


Quote:
what  
happens is people don't go to Him and do not look for Him. That's why  
there's so much pain and suffering in the world."


a frantic blind man "looking for God", rushing about in a room full of sharp objects and rough cutting walls, bleeding from his wrong guesses as to where God is,  
....and at each wrong painful turn and new injury he hears God say "Nope...that's wrong...try again"

.....that ain't God.

...my pain has nothing to do with "not going to him/her" or "not looking for him/her".

To espouse that kind of spirituality is to heap coals of shame and guilt on a sufferer....and to seriously mislead one from the light.

Quite the opposite seems true. For example, I'll use christianity since that is what the majority here are probably used to. The person of faith is called to accept a cross. We are talkin some serious pain there.

"If ya had faith ya wouldn't be in pain"...that's bullshit.

Granted...my higher power does pull off some neat healings...miracles....and everybody in eyeshot jumps up and down cause they witnessed "proof" of God's existence....and when that occurs it's his/her business not mine. Those folks have "seen".

Blessed are those that have "not seen" and yet believe. The ones whose pain has not been miraculously taken away. The ones whose children were torn from them. The ones for whom all evidence points to the non existence of God....and yet they still "believe"

On earth...Man's ideas have yoked Pain and punishment together. In the darkness of a "10"....we can't help but get this feeling/thought/question...."what did I do wrong?"

At my best, during a "10", I accept and "offer up" the pain for someone else....at my worst I call God one heartless, cruel, sadistic, son of a bitch. Neither lessens or intensifies the pain. No magic tricks.

I'm writing all this during one of the worst days/nights of Clusterheadaches i have ever experienced....

Wage peace
den
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by brain_cramps on Aug 2nd, 2003, 4:12am

on 08/01/03 at 12:49:46, athos12 wrote:
On the seventh day, an engineering change introduced UNIX into the Universe, and it hasn't worked right since.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by SommelierCH on Aug 2nd, 2003, 6:25am
TerryS,

Within the context of Theology, that’s probably the best, most approachable explanation of this very thorny theological subject that I have ever heard. And, in parable form.


Den,

Sorry Den, I used my 24 hour pain free, get out of jail free card, on my post to 2late. All I have left is blue cheese and vinegar. I’m sure it’s in the archives somewhere. Good luck, man. I hope you get some pain free time very soon.

Use the light to heal, while you walk in it,

David J.
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by tommyD on Aug 2nd, 2003, 5:39pm
It doesn’t matter whether god exists.

Pain exists.

A belief in God can be helpful for some, and I say good for them.

As long as we all realize it’s up to us humans to help each other.

-tommyD
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by jonny on Aug 2nd, 2003, 6:09pm
When the car is going over the cliff everyone believes.

........................................jonny
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by suzy617 on Aug 2nd, 2003, 6:15pm

on 08/02/03 at 18:09:09, jonny wrote:
When the car is going over the cliff everyone believes.

........................................jonny


Is that car filled with circus midgets?  ;D

Thanks Terry for the story.
Suzy
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by 9erfan on Aug 2nd, 2003, 6:55pm

on 08/02/03 at 17:39:12, tommyD wrote:
It doesn’t matter whether god exists.

Pain exists.

A belief in God can be helpful for some, and I say good for them.

As long as we all realize it’s up to us humans to help each other.


If I only had other "humans" to depend on to get me through this life, I'd surely wind up disappointed.  They are just as imperfect as I am.  I 'd be lost without my faith.
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by badfly on Aug 10th, 2003, 6:08am
I believe in myself, and my own integrity. Right and wrong are just points of view. Religion is based on right and wrong and therefore is flawed in the same way. Belief is somthing else. It doesnt matter what you believe in, be it God, Animism, or the holey whatever, the act of believing is where you draw your strength. I do not ask the question "Is there a God?" The question is futile and pointless. The one who asks doesnt know, the one who answers has a beliefe. I say I will be good and just, for the sake of myself and my family. I seek no reward for my acts of kindness, just the feeling I get when I do right is enough for me to know I have done good. When I am down and desperate I dont call out to some unkown, unseen all seeing all powerful God to help me, its pointless, it wont work or else we would all be doing that. I suck it up and pull it together, and if possable lean on my friends.
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Elaine on Aug 10th, 2003, 11:51am
Badfly Believeing in ones self is good! What ever you believe in is good. Faith is good ! I respect your believe. I hope you respect mine!  :)


I believe there is a higher power! I believe what ever you have faith in helps! FAITH is good!
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Ree on Aug 10th, 2003, 10:08pm
I love this thread it sure beats the political stuff on my congress thread........ I believe... and the God I believe in believes in all of you... and the Higher Power gives me the power to prevail, when there has been no where to turn... no money left in the till, and weakness beyond weakness.  He helps me to find strenght that could move mountains and endure anything.  And I have.  I have seen the miracles.  I am a witness to it.  

Den I loved your post... We are all good here at CH.com and whether we believe or not... We are doing Gods work, for God to me is Love and Love is what runs this place... Love to you all  Ree
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Ted on Aug 10th, 2003, 11:10pm
Quick answer? No! Whatever my car is driving over. :-)
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Donna on Aug 11th, 2003, 9:45am
Mornin' Ted me luv.........isn't this where we met?
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by OwieMan on Aug 11th, 2003, 2:39pm
Nope I dont believe in him, but I do find myself asking for some relief when a bad one hits...lol

It never helps, but I dont get my panties in a bunch about it...

If he's there fine. If not no big deal.

I think anybody raised in America would give it a chance at some point...You know our ancestors were some religous SOBs and our society still reflects that. Wether we like it or not, we get so much christianity shoved down our throats from the time we are born till we die that it's always back there in the subconcience somewhere.

I personally try not to let those christian soldiers get to me and I leave them alone, but DAMN can you not come knocking on my door at 9am wanting to talk to me about protecting myself from porn!
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by vig on Aug 11th, 2003, 2:47pm
I think it's great to be spiritual and wonder where we came from and consider what life is all about, but when someone starts talking to a little old man and asking for stuff and actually expecting things to happen, well ...
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Ree on Aug 11th, 2003, 7:32pm
oooooooooo well what if I have proof... something to ponder... Ted what did you run over???????????LOL


~~~Dead skunk in the middle of the road ~~~and he's stinkin to high Heaven...~~~~

Don't trust him folks Here's Teds recipe for Road kill Chilli        http://www.flash.net/~rockware/chili.html   beware Ree
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Charlie on Aug 12th, 2003, 5:33am
You know my feelings. It isn't much of a problem for me.

I do wonder why any deity would put up with those who pretend to be its spokesmen. For some reason this god always needs money. All powerful but can't handle cash.

It boggles the mind

Charlie
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by BobG on Aug 12th, 2003, 2:40pm
Maybe God does always need money but

Jesus saves :D
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by nancyc on Aug 13th, 2003, 12:19am
Yes, HE exist and He is in control...thank God...cause i sure dont want to have to deal with life without HIM...thanks TerryS...smiles,nancyc
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Ted on Aug 13th, 2003, 12:53am
If he's in control then why did we just go to war on a lie? Sounds like he doesn't have much control. If he's in control then why are people starving to death, painfully taking their last gasps of breath tortured their whole short lives? If he's in control then why do people have their flesh incinerated because they belong to the "wrong" ethnic group... or hacked away by hatchets, all while living throught the pain? Not "if there is a God how can this happen." But if 'HE'S" in control doesn't it sound like he lost control?
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by brain_cramps on Aug 13th, 2003, 1:02am

on 08/12/03 at 14:40:05, BobG wrote:
Maybe God does always need money but

Jesus saves :D

LMAO Bob!        Now that's the funniest thing I've heard all day!     ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by nancyc on Aug 13th, 2003, 10:45am
Hi Ted, i Won't argue with folks about my belief in God...but all i can tell you is that I believe He did not create us to be puppets....He is not the one that went to Iraq or anywhere else...we did...Why do you think the world is in such a mess?  Because of people...not GOD...This is my belief and I am not trying to force my beliefs on anyone..so last word from me about it...I respect your beliefs and hope you will do the same...that is why I posted my comment above...thanks,..smiles,nancyc
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Ted on Aug 13th, 2003, 11:08am
Hi Nancy. I do respect your beliefs. It's only been recently I've gone back to being agnostic/atheistic (goes back and forth between the two) so why wouldn't I respect some's belief in God? Looks like you're agreeing with what I was pointing out above though. All I was saying is, if there is one,  God is not in control. Otherwise he would have created us to be puppets.
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by vig on Aug 13th, 2003, 11:19am
I don't doubt God's existence.  I just think this is a 'hands-off' universe.  God started the ball rolling, but  got out of the way very early.  

Notice I didn't use the word "he".

It aint a greying old man that you can beg for things.
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by nancyc on Aug 13th, 2003, 10:58pm
Opps, sorry ...i should have said He is in control of my life...sorry for the confusion....thanks for your reply, i appreciate your honesty...smiles,nancyc
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Ted on Aug 13th, 2003, 11:37pm
OK. That DOES make more sense. He controls your life isn't the same as saying he controls all of the universe. Sorry for any of the confusion. You just meant you were his puppet and not everyone was. Now I feel pretty stupid for this all. Again. My deepest apologies.
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by ClusterChuck on Aug 14th, 2003, 12:21am
Can I throw in my two cent's worth?

I beleive there is a "being" that watches over us.  Whether you call that being "Him" - "Her" - "God" - "Buddah" - "Allah" - or what ever, there is someone that watches out over us.

Think back to your childhood.  Think of all the stupid, dangerous things you did.  The things you did that should have cause you to be killed.  Did it kill you? NO! It didn't happen!  Something protected you.  Does this being protect all kids, or adults?  No!  Why?  I don't know.

Does this being control our lives?  No.  We are given choices, paths to take in life.  Do we always chose the right one?  No.  This being gives us the tools we need to make the right choice, but does not force us one way or the other.  Humans have the ability to choose, right or wrong.

Why does this being let humans suffer so?  Whether it is CH, starvation, burns, persecution, torture or whatever, we are forced to suffer.  I don't know why.

There are a lot of things, above, that I have answered with "I don't know."    Am I stupid?  Sometimes, YES!  According to some people that know me, very often!  Ha ha!  But seriously,  I don't know the answer to these questions, just like I don't know why something that is blue, looks blue.  I know the scientific explanation, that it absorbs all the other colors, and then reflects only blue back to us (or something like that), but why does it do this?  Huh?  Can anyone answer that?  You can explain it all you want, but I will just act like the typical 5 year old, and ask, "but why?" to whatever you tell me.  You will also reach the point where you will have to flat out say, you don't know why.

Do I blame this being for the state of shit that my life is in now? No.  

I have been told that "God" does not put more on your shoulders than you can bear.  I just wish that "He" did not think my shoulders were so broad or strong!  Right now it is real questionable as to whether or not I can sustain the load.

Anyhow, that was my comment, even if it was more than two cent's worth ...

Chuck
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by brain_cramps on Aug 14th, 2003, 12:47am
One question:    

If this god (or God) is omnipotent, caring, loving, fair, and lets us make our own decisions to decide our own fate, consider the following:  

A child is born in a war-torn city moments before the city is leveled by bombing that maims or kills the child...  

What wrong could that infant possibly have done in those few moments to deserve that punishment?

??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Ted on Aug 14th, 2003, 1:29am
Don't be silly, Brain. That just means he/she is brought to God's Christian loving and cradling arms sooner than most. Wait. the baby was a nice Jesus-loving baby, right? Everyone sing:

Ama-a-zing grace
How sweet the sound
that saved a wretch li-i-ike meeeee.
I once was lost but now I'm found
The ba-athroom smells like pee!
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Donna on Aug 14th, 2003, 4:07am
This horrible garbage actually hurts to read.  I'm glad evryone is respecting each others right to believe or not believe.  Seems that some of the Not Believes are out for blood.  Why?
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Donna on Aug 14th, 2003, 4:31am
Oh, on second thought, I think I know what will happen next..........you sweet little imps are going to come up with some cute-sy answer like...the devil made you do it, right?
Title: Don't hit me no more boss
Post by rumplestiltskin on Aug 14th, 2003, 6:37am
They led me to cave after cave. Each time, as we stared into the darkness, they kept saying "SEE. There is no light! Show me light!"

I shrugged like a perennial flower buried in the dirt
under the snow.

Walk in the sunshine
den
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Woobie on Aug 14th, 2003, 7:49am
Well, I tried to stay out of this, but I've been up all night on my day off with a little insomnia... so, while trying to catch up, i thought I'd put in my 2 cents.

I believe in God, or .. I guess, better put, a Higher Power.  To me, it's a comfort thing.. i guess.. something to talk to - think about, believe in.  

I do NOT believe, however, in organized religion.   I do not believe that "God" will not accept me if I say naught words.  I do not believe that if I wear pants, makeup, have sex before marraige, or use contraceptives, that I am a sinner and will burn in Hell.

i live near one of the largest, if not THE largest church in the US... and they have armored vehicles pick up their money FOUR DAYS A WEEK.  That's a lot of money!!!  Why??    

A belief, or disbelief, in God, Allah, Buddah, or whoever, is what causes all the world's problems....  
America was founded for religious freedom.. so people could be free from religious persecution...
All the world's problems stem from religion.. or beliefs stemming from religion.   ORGANIZED religion.  

something I dont understand.  The religion (not sure what it is... ) that says you cannot go to a doctor.  The children that die because they dont get proper medical care.  Who are we to step in and say they cannot let their children die?  It's what they believe.  but children cannot believe for themselves yet.  Is it wrong??  All of those people die - because of their religion.

some people get stoned to death for their wrongs.. because of their religion... some can marry 18 women if they wanna.   and one religion - women get their clitoris cut off so they cannot feel pleasure.  WTF???

yes, i believe there is some Higher Power.. but i do not, do not, do NOT  believe in RELIGION.

my "statement" at the bottom of my posts.. (what's that called?)  had it there since i signed up.  And i believe that.


where's RevDeFord.. ??

and that was a good story Terry...

that's it.. I'm done.
(I hate getting into religion debates!!  LOL)

tina
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by forgetfulnot on Aug 14th, 2003, 4:29pm
Tina said
Quote:
yes, i believe there is some Higher Power.. but i do not, do not, do NOT  believe in RELIGION


Well said, all I see organized religion do is polarize people like organized politics. Went to my best friends funeral last March. According to the So. Baptist preacher the only way, only way to get to heaven was to accept Jesus Christ as your savior. So all the Jewish, Moslem etc. people must be going to hell. I just can’t buy that kind of crap either.

Lee
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by brain_cramps on Aug 14th, 2003, 6:56pm

on 08/14/03 at 00:47:38, brain_cramps wrote:
One question:    

If this god (or God) is omnipotent, caring, loving, fair, and lets us make our own decisions to decide our own fate, consider the following:  

A child is born in a war-torn city moments before the city is leveled by bombing that maims or kills the child...  

What wrong could that infant possibly have done in those few moments to deserve that punishment?

??? ??? ???




on 08/14/03 at 04:07:32, Donna wrote:
This horrible garbage actually hurts to read.  I'm glad evryone is respecting each others right to believe or not believe.  Seems that some of the Not Believes are out for blood.  Why?



Donna:

I hope that it wasn't my question that "actually hurts to read".  Honestly, it was a question that I thought you (or maybe someone else here) may have been able to answer.  No offence was intended in any way.  If you WERE offended by it, I am sorry.

grant       8)
Title: Re: Does God Exist? Sometimes we wonder.
Post by Ree on Aug 14th, 2003, 8:24pm
To each, his own ree


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