Clusterheadaches.com Message Board


    
      
        Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2005 >> Ready to try HBWR seeds
        
(Message started by: Squanto on Nov 12^th, 2005, 7:38pm)

Title: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by Squanto on Nov 12^th, 2005, 7:38pm

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by Redd715 on Nov 12^th, 2005, 9:15pm

on 11/12/05 at 19:38:53, Squanto wrote:

Hi,

Some of you have been following my exploits on another thread "My Alternate Therapy is ready..." (if I knew how to put a link in here I would)

I'm a chronic CHer, over a year of nearly daily headaches. Presently using SPUT and O2 as abortives. I'm looking for something to prevent the next headache - not just relieve the one I have at the moment. Not that there's anything bad about that. I'd just like to have more than a a few hours or a day's interuption.

I have on hand now some Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds. Active ingredient (LSA - lysergic acid amide)

Because of an unpleasnt experience with shrooms, I'm going to start at the lowest dose possible, one seed. (actually I know that I could dilute one seed, but individual seeds seems to be the common unit of dose.)

Question(s):
1) Do I need to "detox" from the SPUT(s) before I dose with the seeds? Is so, how long?

Don't believe there is a detox period from SPUTs per say, my guess would be 24 hours but then that is only a guess.

2) I see in the clusterbusters.com FAQ that dosing every 4-5 days (like the shrooms) is recommended. Is this rigid if tapering the dose up, i.e. one seed, two seeds, three seeds. (Don't think I'll go past 3 seeds)

Staying with the 4-5 day between doses is still recommended. (I understand your caution with starting this low, but because of the lack of any umpleasant effects from the seeds, (I've never read of a single person having any noticable effects at doses as high even 6 seeds. I have knowlege of one person who inadvertantly soaked the hulls with the inner meats, and although this person discarded the hulls after soaking, did have a very unpleasant stomach upset for a few hours.) If at three seeds you notice nothing remotely "funky" don't hesitate to increase even one seed at a time.
3) I've stayed away from the Imitrex injections for almost 2 months now, so that shouldn't be a problem? Right?

As long as you are med free other than the 02 I'd say you are safe.

4) I'm going to break the seeds and use the kernal to soak in water. How little water can I use? Should I filter the extracted solution before drinking it?

Crush the kernal meats up well before soaking, and a shot glass of water is plenty. And yes, you should consume the mush as well as the water.

TIA
Squanto

My thoughts on the matter.. ;;D

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by rextangle on Nov 12^th, 2005, 10:16pm

on 11/12/05 at 19:38:53, Squanto wrote:

Question(s):
1) Do I need to "detox" from the SPUT(s) before I dose with the seeds? Is so, how long?
2) I see in the clusterbusters.com FAQ that dosing every 4-5 days (like the shrooms) is recommended. Is this rigid if tapering the dose up, i.e. one seed, two seeds, three seeds. (Don't think I'll go past 3 seeds)
3) I've stayed away from the Imitrex injections for almost 2 months now, so that shouldn't be a problem? Right?
4) I'm going to break the seeds and use the kernal to soak in water. How little water can I use? Should I filter the extracted solution before drinking it?

TIA
Squanto

1- No, you do not need to dextox from mushrooms to do LSA.

2- You can do 3 seeds, no need for tapering. Remember, you won't have ANY side effects. Of course, you could be the oddman out and do, but I seriously doubt that.

3- No problem there! Keep staying away if you can, you're doing great!

4- You don't need much water, just a regular size glass.
I don't filter anything, just down it!

As a suggested idea, you could wear a little red cape! And that, I want a picture of!

Good luck, and keep us posted please.

Thanks,

Rex

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 13^th, 2005, 2:04am

on 11/12/05 at 19:38:53, Squanto wrote:

1) Do I need to "detox" from the SPUT(s) before I dose with the seeds? Is so, how long?

Yes, you should detox from the SPUTS. There is plenty of evidence that there is cross-tolerance between psilocybin and LSA. Some people report they don't have this "problem" but for best chances at success, detox.
The longer the better, especially as it appears you've been doing SPUTS for some time now and I'd suggest giving your system as much time as possible to get ready to accept this new psychedelic. I'd shoot for at least 5 days. Sounds like the first day will be easy. Then use the 02 as your abortive for as long as possible.

on 11/12/05 at 19:38:53, Squanto wrote:

2) I see in the clusterbusters.com FAQ that dosing every 4-5 days (like the shrooms) is recommended. Is this rigid if tapering the dose up, i.e. one seed, two seeds, three seeds. (Don't think I'll go past 3 seeds)

One seed will most likely be similar to a SPUT. I'd still try to put as much time in between the doses as possible.
One major pro about 5 days is that very often, the first day is good, the next couple days may show a rebound type of increase in activity and then things begin to get better and "can" continue to improve as time goes by, without additional doses. If you redose too soon (2,3, or 4 days) you may miss out on this improvement that comes on day 4 or 5. You may have broken the cycle and not know it by re-agitating things with additional doses.
Similar analogy would be continuing to pick at a scab on day 3 when it would have healed completely by day 5 and fallen off by itself.
(Sorry for the graphics :-/ but it seemed to fit well)

on 11/12/05 at 19:38:53, Squanto wrote:

3) I've stayed away from the Imitrex injections for almost 2 months now, so that shouldn't be a problem? Right?

No, that shouldn't be a problem anymore. Should make things easier actually, IMHO.

on 11/12/05 at 19:38:53, Squanto wrote:

4) I'm going to break the seeds and use the kernal to soak in water. How little water can I use? Should I filter the extracted solution before drinking it?

If you get the pulp out and don't soak the husks, you don't need to strain the solution. Crush up the pulp and soak it in a couple ounces of water. Shake or stir it up a little every once in a while. Soak for at least a couple hours.

Good luck
Bobw

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by Flash on Nov 13^th, 2005, 10:09am

Hi Gene,

I realise that you already have the HBW, but please also check out RC seeds.

HBW seeds contain some toxins that may may you feel naucious. RC seeds don't.

HBW seeds are much harded to prepare because you have to extract the contents and removed the husks. RC seeds are much easier to prepare becuase you just crush the entire seed.

HBW doses consist of a small number of relatively strong seeds. RC doses consist of a large number of relatively weak seeds. Thus it is easier to safely regulate the dose with RC seeds. The ratio is about 4 or 5 - 1 compared with HBW!

Clusterbusters have had equal success with both types of seed.

You probably still have enough time to procure the RC seeds and they aren't expensive. Given you had a bad experience on mushrooms (I've done that too BTW), the RC seeds are probably a less risky option.

Also I'd like to mention that IMO a better alternative to SPUTS is GULPS. Bascially you make up a small quantity of solution. With shrooms you make up a batch of tea, the drink about 1/8th-1/4 of the usual dose when you feel a hit coming on. Basically ingesting about 18th-1/4g of shroom. You will not experience much in the way of side effects.

In the case of seeds we usually soak them in white wine, I know this sounds like a recipie for disataster but the seeds prevent getting a CH hit off the wine. Again about an 1/8th to 1/4 of the regular dose.

The jury is still out on whether you have to detox of small doses like SPUTS and GULPS in order to take a bigger dose. So you do whatever you choose, and if that doesn't work the do the opposite!

Good Luck!

Flash

EDIT: Thanks Bob, sorry I got the ratio wrong. I'm no good on Sundays. The correct ratio would be 4-5 RC seeds for every HBW seed. A good safe staring point with RC would be 5-10 seeds. Most people seem to be using 15-20 and reporting no adverse effects, or even much in the way of side effects.

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by Squanto on Nov 13^th, 2005, 4:03pm

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Nothing is as easy as it oughta be.

I hadn't started the "extraction process" before I started this thread. Probably should have asked my questions before I ordered the seeds.

What I discovered (at the same time you guys were clueing me in) the durn HBWR seeds aren't as easy to shuck as I expected. There's not a lot difference between the hulls and the meat. If you can call it "meat." The kernals insdie the seeds are so dry that they crumble when breaking open the seed(s.) And the texture and color of the broken kernals is nearly the same as the broken hulls. Makes it practically impossible to separate the kernal from the chaff. I've tried several different ways of breaking the hulls and get the same results. I was kinda expecting something like shelling a peanut or a sunflower seed. It ain't like that at all. [smiley=huh.gif]

So, I've sent for some rivea corymbosa seeds. The struggle continues.

Aside to Rex: You ain't gonna see this old man in tights and a red cape!

Squanto

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by rextangle on Nov 13^th, 2005, 8:39pm

on 11/13/05 at 16:03:18, Squanto wrote:

Aside to Rex: You ain't gonna see this old man in tights and a red cape!

Squanto

That's a damn shame, because to a lot of us, you are a superhero! By the way, never mentioned tights, just a cape.
I hope the seeds work well for you.
Keep us posted, you're on the right path,

Rex

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by Chillrmn1 on Nov 14^th, 2005, 5:18am

Hi Gene,

And the texture and color of the broken kernals is nearly the same as the broken hulls.

It sounds like these may have been a little old if the seed meat was brown in color like the hulls. The seed meat should be whitish to a light tan.

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by Redd715 on Nov 14^th, 2005, 7:23am

He may have also purchased the highest viability seeds rather than the 90% viable. Many have found the same thing with them. The seeds that report to seperate the best are the 90% viable.

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by miapet on Nov 14^th, 2005, 8:51am

hey, i have a couple of things to add *g* (don't i always??) anyway, when i open the hulls, i cut them (with a sharp kitchen knife) in half, long ways, the hulls don't break, and i can get the 'stuff' more easily that way *g* . . .

we totally understand your reluctance to have a 'bad experience' D absolutely hates any 'trippy' effects, so he only does the minimal effective dose. i started him with 2 seeds (HBWR), then bumped it up a bit with the RC seeds. he had no problems. We soaked the HBWR in a small amount of tepid water, and the RC seeds in a small amount of whit zin.

*positive light and energy*
miapet

oh, and no tights and cape??? whyyyyyyyyyyy???????? hehe

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by Margi on Nov 14^th, 2005, 10:14am

Wow, really some conflicting advice in this thread! Yes, you need to detox from Sputs - No, you don't. Do this many seeds, no do THIS many seeds.

Yikes. No offense intended for anyone, but for the newcomers reading this thread - please know that Flash and Pinkfloyd are the ones that have put in the years researching the alternative therapies. When in doubt, always take their advice over anyone else (with, perhaps, the except of Pinksharkmark, another guru on the subject). This is the danger of internet communities, I guess - still scares the hell outta me sometimes that we've got folks out there using blind faith in what they read on any of these websites.

ANYWAY...

Mia, I'm interested to read about D....wondering why you've switched over to the seeds? Is he still in remission? Did something happen that's caused him to switch? Noticing different/more positive results from the seeds? No ulterior motive here on my part at all, just in full-out research mode on the seeds....

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by miapet on Nov 14^th, 2005, 12:53pm

Hey Margi, long time no chat/post . . .life stuff has been happening here, and anyway . . .
D switched to seeds because he absolutely hates any 'trippy' effect . . .and after the cup of tea that was a bit too 'strong' his anxiety level over dosing was also very high. When seeds proved to not have a trippy effect (at low doses anyway), it seemed like the way to go, and we were succesful with them. Due to D's anxiety about dosing, he wouldn't dose at his regular maintenance time, and as time continued on, he eventually had the tell-tale signs of ch. . . sooooooooooo seeds worked, he's p/f . . .and we have had a LOT of stress this year, and he's still h/a free.

As for conflicting advice, most of us go with the detox idea, as better safe than sorry. Amounts vary by individual, I only posted what D took, due to he and Squanto having the same issues about 'trips' *g*

Sorry to have hijacked your thread for a minute here Squanto . . hope things are going well for you and that you are soon counting your p/f days too!

Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread *g*

*positive light and energy*
miapet

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by Squanto on Nov 14^th, 2005, 2:10pm

Well, I tried cutting several seeds with a sharp kitchen knife. Those suckers are hard a rocks! The brown stuff inside is like dried concrete and tends to crumble and flake when I try to dig it out of the husk. I didn't recall seeing any "percentage of viability" on the iamshaman.com web site. Just that they were "viable." After MiaPet's comment I went back and checked. The web site says, "Not quite as high quality as our organic Hawaiian seeds, but we still guarantee 65%-70% germination."

So is that 60-75% viable? Or what? Well, it don't matter anyway. I'm not going to get any active ingredient out these things without some unwanted chemicals from the husks leaching out too. I'm half way thinkng about planting the durn things to see what, if anything, grows. I don't have much of the green thumb. I think my P. cubensis grew so well 'cause mold and fungii thrive here in N. Florida.

About the "tights and cape" aside. Forget about it. Just an attempt at a little (very little) humor between Rex and me. Totally OT

Squanto

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by ArCane on Nov 15^th, 2005, 2:35pm

Hi Squanto,

Hope you find releif. I know I have using this treatment. It is truely a god send.

Allen

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by vig on Nov 15^th, 2005, 8:19pm

Here's what they SHOULD look like inside....

http://www.kdlltd.com/vig/hbwr.jpg

I hold the seed and use a pair of scissors across the middle and chop them in two.

good luck Squanto!

Title: Re: Ready to try HBWR seeds
Post by Squanto on Nov 19^th, 2005, 9:26pm

Thanks Vig for the picture. My HBWR seeds don't look anything like that. The husk is different, the shape is different and the kernal in the middle is almost the same color as the husk. Go figure.

I crunched and cut (as best I could) nearly all the I got from iamshaman.com. They are all hard and dried totally. Since they are clearly labeled "not for human consumption" I don't have much recourse and will move on. I'll start a new thread about my experience with the RC seeds.

Squanto