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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2005 >> Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
        
(Message started by: floridian on Nov 10^th, 2005, 10:12pm)

Title: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by floridian on Nov 10^th, 2005, 10:12pm

I've been using nasal irrigation to try to clear up my sinus - many studies show that regular flushing with a large dose of saline can improve sinusitis. Within the first week, I could breath through both nostrils all the time - a big improvement.

So I was travelling over the past few days. Took my neti pot (nasal douche pitcher) with me. Ordinarily, I mix the salt powder with water and microwave it - it is supposed to be body temperature, Didn't have a microwave or glass mixing cup in the hotel - just had the neti pot. And I didn't trust the water in the hotel. So I just dumped a salt packet into the pitcher, added room temperature bottled water, and went to a meeting and let the salt dissolve.

Came back a few hours later to rinse the sneeze box. Discovery: Room temperature water is feels VERY cold when it is poured through the nose into the sinuses!! Water removes heat a hell of alot faster than air at the same temperature.

People here have tried cooling their trigeminal using ice (has to cool all the external stuff first, not very efficient). Others use a really cold air conditioner - sometimes helps, not always practical. After the cold surprise I got a few days ago, I am willing to bet that sinus irrigation with room temperature salt water will abort in many cases.

Given a choice, I would hit oxygen first to abort. But not everyone has access to O2 all the time. And I also think that a cold flush after a few minutes of oxygen might help seal the deal.

This might be more likely to help episodics than chronics - episodics usually have changes in the blood vessels around the sinus that is not seen in chronics. Not sure if regular sinus irrigation improves the tone of blood vessels in the sinus, but it might.

Don't use icewater for this - water at 70 to 80 degrees F (~20 C) really pulls the heat away fast when used to irrigate, and ice cold water might literally freeze your brain or cause a stroke.

More on nasal irrigation:

http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Nasal%20Irrigation
http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Neti%20Pot

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by jon019 on Nov 10^th, 2005, 11:05pm

Hi floridian,

Dang, that is thought provoking. Just because I've had CH for years I seem to think I know all about it. Have even disparaged nasal irrigation in previous posts. I plead ignorance and arrogance and too many years wandering in the wilderness without ch.com.

Learn something every day here. Humility? What a concept. I'm gonna try this.

Thank you.

Jon019

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by Mr. Happy on Nov 11^th, 2005, 12:05am

Wait once. I've been itching to try the Neti-Pot since I heard about it; simple saline spray is a staple here. How would the In one nostril and Out the other work, when the "other" is way clogged/congested? Asking since I never get a runny nostril, just an kind of clogged/impacted one.

Guess I should get a Neti-Pot, since I like the idea, and find out for myself, eh? There. Question answered. Why did I even start typing this?

I swear to god.....
RJ

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by nani on Nov 11^th, 2005, 12:22am

Just imagining that makes my head hurt. :-/
I'm one of those super sensitive nose types and that just sounds painful. I'll keep my cooling on the outside, thanks.

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by Mr. Happy on Nov 11^th, 2005, 12:36am

on 11/11/05 at 00:22:29, nani wrote:

Just imagining that makes my head hurt.

Can't be much different than getting used to contact lenses. Once familiar with the procedure and associated sensations, it's a piece of cake.

Then again, contacts always felt like a 5 gallon bucket of sand in the eyes.
RJ

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by CHTom on Nov 11^th, 2005, 1:04am

on 11/11/05 at 00:05:56, Mr. Happy wrote:

Fingers are good for clearing out clogged nasal passages (sorry, I just couldn't resist ;))

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by Sophie on Nov 11^th, 2005, 10:13pm

I have not used the neti-pot, but I have been doing nasal irragation for about 4 years now. I use to buy NeilMed sinus rinse at the health food store. Recently, I see that Walgreens carries this----usually found around the sinus meds.
The principle is the same----saline solution--douche out nostrils. The tool or untensil is differant---it's a plastic bottle (8 oz) with a thing in it that directs the water in one side and out the other. I just thought it would be simple to use. There is no pain---very comfortable with warm water. I use this daily and maybe sometimes twice a day if I have been exposed to dust, pollen etc.
The reason I'm writing this book is to say----"what an excellent idea---using cool water to abort." I wondered about that before but just never tried it. It really makes sence.
My only complaint about this product (I get the prepacked pouches) is that sometimes it seems a little drying. So I believe I'll try using half a pack and see how that goes.
The manufacturer reccomends using sterile water----how important do you think that is? I have good tap water but use distilled for this. It's a pain warming the water.
I'm not in cycle not, but it will be interesting to try and use cool water to abort.
BTW----this is very good for sweet breath.
I'm like you Randy---never a runny nose--just conjested.
What do you think, Floridian, tap water or not?
Sophie

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by seasonalboomer on Nov 14^th, 2005, 9:23am

Two thoughts:

1.) Sounds messy.
2.) Glad someone with "2 posts" to their name didn't hang this one up there.

You can bet I'm going to try it. Have had success a couple times in aborting while swimming freestyle laps. Because my breathing isn't always perfect when I swim I occasionally get a "nasal irrigation". [smiley=laugh.gif] Maybe this explains it.

Scott

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by Margi on Nov 14^th, 2005, 10:07am

Makes a lot of sense, Jonathan - thanks. Cool is good for Mike. He's tried a variation of this method before and has found some success with it. Once he tried salt water, that is, instead of hot mustard as he first tried. His idiot wife (uh, that would be me) read somewhere that mustard powder was a good sinus clearer. That incident clearly stands out as my personal low point in my career of cluster supporting. HOLY!! Do NOT try this at home!

I read about your netipot on your website. Sounds very interesting! Thanks for always being our star researcher, Flo!

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by floridian on Nov 15^th, 2005, 12:39pm

Quote:

It's a pain warming the water.
...
What do you think, Floridian, tap water or not?

I use tap water, though I have a filter on my sink (to remove chlorine and other stuff. My tap water is fairly chlorinated/disinfected, so I am not worried about bacteria. I figure if the water is clean enough to drink and bathe in, I am getting exposed to whatever is there.

Warming the water isn't that much of a pain - I have a pyrex measuring cup dedicated to this use, fill it with 2 cups water, and (for my microwave) heat it around 40 seconds. Then stir the salt and get it to dissolve. 3 minutes, tops; 3-4 minutes to use the saline, 30 seconds to rinse the equipment afterwards.

Quote:

How would the In one nostril and Out the other work, when the "other" is way clogged/congested?

If one side is totally clogged, I rinse the other side and it can exit via the mouth. Usually try to avoid that, by keeping the mouth open, and breathing through the mouth - that triggers some flap to close or something. Also, even when it seems pretty stuffed up, it is sometimes possible to snort it in.

Quote:

My only complaint about this product (I get the prepacked pouches) is that sometimes it seems a little drying. So I believe I'll try using half a pack and see how that goes.

Yes, some people find it drying or overdrying - turning down the salt or frequency of use makes sense.

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by ben_uk on Nov 16^th, 2005, 3:41pm

There is this -

http://www.bioessence.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1181

http://www.sanvic.com/english/what/index.htm

:o

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by Mr. Happy on Nov 21^st, 2005, 2:52pm

Wotan's Witness! The world is alive with the sound of music!

Addicted as I am to decongestants, this damned Neti pot hocus pocus has been on the back burner for quite a while. Saw one today at the local rip-off heath products store while stocking up on disgusting Goat cheese. Under $20, including complimentary salt.

Simple instructions. Pour in one nostril, and it runs out the other. Almost drowned on the first trial douche, but got the hang of it in seconds. Exhausted the bubbly snot/water residual into the sink.......and I could breathe thru my nose like I just stuck my face in a 4 pound bag of Coke.
Brilliant!

No idea what it'll do for CH when filled with ice water, but by all means, give it a try. Inexpensive, and great nostril clarity, if nothing else.

Brilliant!
RJ

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by Redd715 on Nov 21^st, 2005, 4:12pm

What chain store did you find this in for under 20 buck hun? Inquireing minds need to know...

Pegg
(afrin junkie)

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by Mr. Happy on Nov 21^st, 2005, 4:56pm

No chain store. Marty Burman has been ripping folks off with his hi priced herbal crud for years (http://www.burmansnaturalfoods.com/). Good friend, gotta get goat cheese from him, and have been asking him to sell smokes since day one.
Found cheap ones on line all over. Here's one - The Neti Pot Company (http://www.bytheplanet.com/Products/Yoga/neti/Netipot.htm).

Two hours later, and the schnoz is still breathing free.
RJ

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by Sophie on Nov 21^st, 2005, 5:08pm

Pull up NeilMed.com----web site for Neil med products.
It lists stores where it is sold now.
My question to Floridian is, could I just use warm tap water to mix----no need to heat up---right???
I really like the plastic douche bottle---so simple. Sophie

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by brainfreeze on Nov 21^st, 2005, 5:56pm

Thx for the post. The nasal irrigation therapy helped me to an extent. The theory is to shrink the nasal tissues so they don't press on the nerves. The next step after shrinking the tissues is calming down the irritated nerves associated with the pain. For this, I used Lidocaine in a nasal spray form. It did cause the pain to subside for the time being.

From my understanding, Lidocaine patches are getting tested to apply externally to painful body parts. I just wonder if anyone else has tried Lidocaine intranasally and what their results were?

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by pattik on Nov 21^st, 2005, 6:06pm

I'm old enough to remember when nose drops (probably just a saline solution) were commonly given to kids with stuffed up noses. I remember really hating it, but it worked for an hour or so. You can still get the stuff at the drugstore. :-/

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by rextangle on Nov 21^st, 2005, 6:07pm

on 11/21/05 at 14:52:11, Mr. Happy wrote:

.......and I could breathe thru my nose like I just stuck my face in a 4 pound bag of Coke.
Brilliant!

RJ

That really makes me want one. If it makes RJ feel like "Scarface", it's gotta be good.

Happ, may the *pause* be with you,

Rex

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by BobG on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 9:36pm

This won’t clear the snot but the purpose was to chill so it don’t matter.
How about cooling and O2 combined?
This is from the olden days of CH.com courtesy of Bob ‘Kip Scale’ Kipple

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/wwwboard/messages/50042.html

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by floridian on Nov 23^rd, 2005, 4:40pm

on 11/21/05 at 16:12:51, Redd715 wrote:

What chain store did you find this in for under 20 buck hun? Inquireing minds need to know...

Pegg
(afrin junkie)

The Walgreen's Pharmacy near my house has them (Sinucleanse bran) for $14 if I remember - overpriced for a simple piece of plastic, yet still a bargain. I'm checking out the Neti Pot company link that Mr. Happy provided - the Rhino Horn looks like it may work better for me; I have a deviated septum, and the left nostril is looser and tends to leak, especially when congested. The Rhino Horn (and some other brands) has a cone shaped tip that might not leak as much.

on 11/21/05 at 17:08:45, Sophie wrote:

My question to Floridian is, could I just use warm tap water to mix----no need to heat up---right???
I really like the plastic douche bottle---so simple. Sophie

Yep, 70 degrees feels something like 40 degrees.

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by Rock_Lobster on Nov 24^th, 2005, 12:00pm

Received my Neti Pot. Very nice... I like it.
Have not tried to abort with it yet... just did the normal rinse.

Title: Re: Sinus Cooler to abort - New Method
Post by Mr. Happy on Nov 30^th, 2005, 2:02am

Haven't tried an abort with it yet, but God Damn if I haven't given it a run for the money. Keep the filthy thing reloaded, next to the sink, 24/7. Seems to work OK breaking the Decongestant fixation, if ya don't mind using it 10 times a day. Finally got a really good clogged nostril, shot the pot, and had No Flow. Nada. Zip. Don't see how this'd work with the whole clogged nostril issue. Still Beta Testing.

On the other hand, I'm not adverse to trying new things. Maybe there's an additive (other than salt) which can tone down the workings of the cranial vascular network. Heck, look at Kudzu.....which I'm STILL convinced is the ultimate Placebo.................yet, good results from many. Let's take Neti potting to the next level.

5^th Decade and still snorting.
RJ