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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2005 >> Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
        
(Message started by: brainfreeze on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:16am)

Title: Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
Post by brainfreeze on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:16am

Hello all, I've been on the boards for about a month now and my cycle has ended but I am compelled to share some of my findings during my 'search' for relief concerning this dreadful affliction. Having been disappointed with western medicine (like most of us) I pursued education in alternative medicine in 1998 and am now in my last leg of doctorate classes in becoming an ND (naturopathic doctor). I've learned many aspects of the different medical paths one can pursue to assist with CH.
Since there are so many 'avenues' in the alternative approach, I want to share the most relative one with you. In all my studies, Chinese medicine is the only practice that actually acknowledges 'sudden, severe, deep, sharp, stabbing pain'. Now keep in mind, Chinese medicine is the oldest medical practice on the planet. In every Chinese med journal, the pain is a result of a disharmony in the liver/gallbladder region of the body. Chinese medicine is based on keeping all energy levels flowing smoothly through the body, and to remedy any condition where blood has 'congealed' or become stagnant.
This can be accomplished through the use of herbs, diet, and accupressure, accupuncture, and reflexlogy.
I know when I'm in the middle of a cycle, this information sounds absurd. But when you can't get relief with western medicine, it is worth a try. So, to address liver/gallbladder issues, a good detoxification is a start.
Eating fresh fruits,juices, and herbs that assist the liver(dandelion root and milk thistle) are necessary. And dissicated beef liver tablets (2 grain) can be bought to assist with liver function.
From my experience, when I continually eat a diet of fresh fruit (only) for breakfast, and a salad with every meal, and no bread/or pasta products, I stay cycle free. I do fall off the wagon and my cycles return.
Hope someone finds this information beneficial.
PFDAN's to you...my vibes are with you. I'm on day 3 of PF!!!! Whoopeee!!!!

Title: Re: Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
Post by nani on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:24am

I'm glad you're PF! Be prepared for a diatribe trying to put down your ideas... but not from me...
KUDZU is from Chinese medicine. ::)
continued pf wishes, nani

Title: Re: Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
Post by seasonalboomer on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:37am

As is true of almost everything on this earth, you might be right. But that always leaves the opportunity to be wrong as well. I don't really like the idea of taking a lot of western drugs, about as much as seeing some hippy herbalist telling me some weed is the answer to all my problems. I've seen good information come the Naturopath community, and I've seen some absolute garbage.

What makes this forum more valuable than either end of the spectrum is that there are open minds here. And as The Band said, "Take what you want and leave the rest". I'd rather sample what is working from all sides of the fence anymore than tie my cart to either fringe at this point.

So, as a Kudzu believer, I'm with ya brother. But as someone who experienced the magic of imitrex for the first time, I can't sell the value of modern science down the river just yet.

Scott

Title: Re: Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
Post by floridian on Aug 12^th, 2005, 12:12pm

Jmorgan (another long-time regular here) says he can consistently shut off a CH cycle with his detox diet, and I believe him.

Regarding the liver - been doing some research on that lately. I think that for some of us, the reason our blood tends to over-coagulate is that the liver goes into the 'acute phase response' and increases the production of clotting factors. This acute phase response may be blunted by a detox diet, fasting, or liver tonics.

http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=The+Liver

http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Detox%20Diet

Quote:

Chinese medicine is the only practice that actually acknowledges 'sudden, severe, deep, sharp, stabbing pain'.

I have no idea what you mean by that. If I went to my non-Chinese western allopath doctor and told him I had a sudden, severe, deep, sharp stabbing pain, I am quite certain he would express concern and ask questions and run tests to determine the cause of such pain. He would acknowledge that type of pain.

Title: Re: Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
Post by rextangle on Aug 12^th, 2005, 12:14pm

Thanks for passing on that info...
Actually Kudzu is a liver tonic! So, there may be something there... Glad you're PF.
Take care,
Rex

Title: Re: Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
Post by brainfreeze on Aug 12^th, 2005, 2:20pm

on 08/12/05 at 10:24:42, nani wrote:

Be prepared for a diatribe trying to put down your ideas... but not from me...

Thx, Nani. I picked a field that is controversial. I'm up for the challenge.

on 08/12/05 at 10:37:04, seasonalboomer wrote:

I can't sell the value of modern science down the river just yet.Scott

I'm with you on this, Scott. Naturopathy is designed to incorporate all therapies including the western approach. The western approach is purely an 'intervention' approach. Other therapies are focused on 'preventative'. Hypocrates believed that both approaches were needed for optimum health.

on 08/12/05 at 12:12:16, floridian wrote:

What I was referring to is that I haven't located a medical journal in the modern sense that actually has a definitions dedicated to pain, how severe, location, duration, etc... Holistic medicine is centered around defining 'types of pain'. As CH suffers know, our pain is different than migraine or the standard head ache pain. I found it interesting that the difference and variation is noted in many of the alternative therapies (holistic, ayurvedic, along with chinese, etc). Again, I think western medicine is to be used in combination with alternatives to achieve pain free results. From personal experience and from more than one occasion, more information is obtained in describing CH to a holistic practioner vs. an allopathic doctor.

Hey, and thanks for the links. They are interesting.

Title: Re: Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
Post by jcmquix on Aug 12^th, 2005, 2:59pm

I can respect your views and your studies, I really hope that you can find some answers for CH...

I understand that NONE of the (Very Little) Medical Community knows anything about CH, or even what causes it. I think most of the information that they have picked up is from sites like this site and the OUCH site.

This is just my feelings, no proven facts... It just seems that Most Dr's throw you anything that my work in hopes of finding something to bring you comfort...

I know that each of us have different CH symptoms. But I just can not believe that the Medical Community has not tried to gain more understanding about us (CHer's)..

I know you may come under attack for your med's decision, but if it was not for you (brainfreeze) and others like floridian (to many others to mention here)..
That alot of people would still be suffering with out any relief....

The only thing that I do not agree with is someone coming here trying to Sell some Magic Potion... I know there are many different people here and we come from all over the world, with all kinds of Preventives & Abortives... But I think the best thing is to Post the information, and let the person decide for themselves..

This just my opinion about this, I just don't want the wrong person getting tagged as a Troll if you are truely trying to help people....

Let us ALL work togeather and find a CURE for CH....
PFDAN's to All
Charlie

Title: Re: Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
Post by Frank_W on Aug 12^th, 2005, 3:15pm

I agree with you, Charlie. If it weren't for the information about kudzu, (thanks to Floridian and Nani), I wouldn't have tried it and wouldn't have found the relief I did, last cycle.

Yes, clusterheads are a skeptical bunch, and rightfully so, but there are certainly aspects of this condition that could use a lot more study and experimentation.

My hat's off to anyone who is working in a scientifically sound manner towards that end.

Title: Re: Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
Post by E-Double on Aug 12^th, 2005, 3:35pm

I think that you will not get flogged with all the troll crap because you have already established yourself.

I am very proud of anyone of us who discovers something and passes it on...It is a godsend as is your pursuit of Higher education and not letting this thing get in the way!

Damn I need to go back to school ;)

PF wishes my friend and love the avitar ;;D

Title: Re: Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
Post by Leggs on Aug 12^th, 2005, 9:53pm

It was the way brainfreeze presented in knowledge that kept me from warming up the coals for a troll roasting. He presented it like "this works for me, and I have found, and it may benefit others to know," but he did not at anytime say what any of us is doing is WRONG for us, and by the way did you know you are killing yourselves and the western doctors are trying to fool us into thinking our current treatment works.

I disagree with him putting a blanket statement over NO western doctors dealing with "sudden, severe, deep, sharp, stabbing pain." Any doctor I went to who was worth a $hit DID discuss those exact things, and anyone who didn't, I walked, or went doctor shopping. Since I have had recent changes in my clusters, and likely have a facial neuralgia to boot, I have seen these EXACT words amongst others like "electrical shock, burning, on fire" which differentiate, along with location and other things, one condition from another. CH and other conditions cannot be proven through diagnostic tools, but are proven clinically, by our description. How could a doctor diagnose without these descriptions?

If they didn't get understand the term "CH" and all its implications, I walked. There aren't many, but they ARE out there.

I am seeing a pain specialist who is an anesthesiologist, and when I told him I was taking kudzu, his response was "Well, I will not argue with success." When I tell him what works, he listens, when I tell him what is not helping, he listens, when I told him my pain was one sided ONLY when I was having a cluster, he listened. Currently, the kudzu is keeping the CH at bay, and I am using a muscle stimulator which has really loosened up my muscles in my neck, and I am no longer having numbness in my arms, and no more muscle spasms. The burning, on fire electrical shock we are still working on, but WE ARE WORKING ON IT. All that being said, I don't understand the blanket statement about western medicines not dealing with the CH descriptors...I have not found that to be true, only of those inept in cluster treatment.

What bothers me about the non-western medicines, the herbs, is there is not consistent info on what the side effects are. Granted, some of the drug companies have their ways of blowing off severe complications or interactions, but we can see in recent years, they can be pulled off the market when something is proven dangerous. How would you know with the herbs? Besides the fact that there are not "check" on the herbs, the manufacture is not regulated at all. I dread the federal government getting into that, and making the prices go up, but you have to know your source, or in some cases, it could kill you.

I know that some on here would probably rather work with the side effects and potential for damage to body parts than deal with the pain. What kind of safe life is it when you are in pain?

I may be looking you up when they find out what this other crap is beside CH. The last thing they put me on was a seizure drug that really messed me up. I am a light weight when it comes to meds. Therefore, for the time being, it's kudzu, muscle stimulation, and clean livin' When my February cycle comes around, I may be hunting down some O2. Kind of hard to get it BEFORE you need it, you know?

PF days everyone.

Title: Re: Sharing what I've learned in 17 years.
Post by brainfreeze on Aug 15^th, 2005, 11:37am

on 08/12/05 at 21:53:12, Leggs wrote:

I am thankful I didn't get 'roasted' and I understand why everyone is on the lookout for 'trolls' . I just hope that the troll radar doesn't get in the way of someone trying to actually help.

on 08/12/05 at 21:53:12, Leggs wrote:

I disagree with him putting a blanket statement over NO western doctors dealing with "sudden, severe, deep, sharp, stabbing pain." Any doctor I went to who was worth a $hit DID discuss those exact things, and anyone who didn't, I walked, or went doctor shopping.
If they didn't get understand the term "CH" and all its implications, I walked. There aren't many, but they ARE out there.

If I left you with the impression I was speaking of doctors. I was not. I was speaking of reference material (books). And from experience, I was chastized for seeking treatment from many different doctors for the same reasons you describe.

on 08/12/05 at 21:53:12, Leggs wrote:

What bothers me about the non-western medicines, the herbs, is there is not consistent info on what the side effects are. Granted, some of the drug companies have their ways of blowing off severe complications or interactions, but we can see in recent years, they can be pulled off the market when something is proven dangerous. How would you know with the herbs? Besides the fact that there are not "check" on the herbs, the manufacture is not regulated at all. I dread the federal government getting into that, and making the prices go up, but you have to know your source, or in some cases, it could kill you.

There are rare 'side-effects' with herb usage. The major contracation in using them is combining them with prescription drugs. That's why the FDA puts the fear into us in not using them. They'd much rather us take a drug that has been genetically altered so they can market it. Can't market what grows in the wild. :)

on 08/12/05 at 21:53:12, Leggs wrote:

I may be looking you up when they find out what this other crap is beside CH. The last thing they put me on was a seizure drug that really messed me up. I am a light weight when it comes to meds.

I know where you are at. We constantly seek relief and never really find it. It gets infuriating. That is exactly why I look to ALL available treatments. This ailment has made me passionate about finding relief. If an herb, or a shot of Imitrex, or taking a month long sabbatical to a mountain wilderness fixes CH. I'm for it!!!