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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2005 >> can quitting alcohol cause CH?
        
(Message started by: daniel_tn on Aug 7th, 2005, 12:48am)
Title: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by daniel_tn on Aug 7th, 2005, 12:48am
[smiley=huh.gif] :-X
hi.

i quit drinking cold turkey about 1.5 months back. within a week i started getting CH-style headaches. Now that i understand the nomenclature of this situation, these were shadows. In the last three weeks i wake up at 3 in the morning almost daily from a sound sleep with these vicious CH classic headaches.

could quitting drinking have triggered CH?

i think this must look weird but i'm really wondering about it. i'm now experimenting with a drink here and there, hoping that i can go back to my non-CH days. the idea of having these headaches for the rest of my life definitely makes me want to drink heavily ::) ;;D :D [smiley=beer.gif]

-dan
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Jonny on Aug 7th, 2005, 1:40am
No
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by daniel_tn on Aug 7th, 2005, 1:48am
>no

honestly, i didn't think it could, or would. but, being a newbie, i had to ask.
:)
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Charlie on Aug 7th, 2005, 2:16am
I drank my share of beer and alcohol when my CH appeared in 1969. I was 23. It was never a trigger for me and although I have been pain free for 13 years, it wasn't a factor. That's not true for everyone but quitting drinking as a cause? Never heard of that.

Charlie http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/nice smiley beer.png
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Jonny on Aug 7th, 2005, 2:56am

on 08/07/05 at 01:48:51, daniel_tn wrote:
i had to ask.


Keep asking questions.....its the only way youll get answers  ;)
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kirk on Aug 7th, 2005, 8:40pm
I've never had that problem and haven't heard of any one else having it until now.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kendra on Aug 8th, 2005, 2:14pm
Hi.  I think that quitting alcohol could ABSOLUTELY have an effect on CH.  Alcohol is a vasodilator.  If you were drinking a lot, and your body was used to regular doses of vasodilators and then you stopped, then your body could very well react to those effects.  For instance, oxygen is a vasodilator, too, and helps a lot of people with CH.

I know many people here believe alcohol to be a trigger for CH, but really, anything that changes your blood circulation can be triggers that induce CH or can help with CH.  It would depend on the person. For instance, caffiene is a vasoconstrictor, but also helps some people with CH.

Sometimes, when there's no definitive answer for certain medical questions, physicians and researchers will state correlations between substances or causes and effects.  For instance, if there had been a study done regarding sufferers and their alcohol consumption and certain people have cluster headaches AND also ingest alcohol, those doing the study will state a correlation.  That's all. Just a correlation. This means that there may or may not be an effect of CH when you ingest alcohol.  This really doesn't mean that those that have CH are triggered by alcohol, although for some, that could be the case. It may mean that a substantial amount of people who have CH consume alcohol. Or, that some alcohol drinkers also have CH.  It wouldn't mean that it's a trigger for everyone.    

As a matter of fact, if there hasn't been a study done, all the researchers are stating is that there is some evidence to suggest a connection.  And, as we can see from all the CH literature on this site and others, that there is, INDEED, a connection.  But, there may be some people that are actually helped by alcohol just like there may be some people that find that caffiene could trigger a CH.

Obviously, if you were drinking regularly and never had a ch, and then quit and then now have them, well, that sounds as if there's a connection for you. But, there probably hasn't been a study done regarding this, yet.

And, again, ANYTHING that would effect your blood circulation in the brain could effect CH.  Water, for instance, probably works for a lot of people, too, since massive water consumption would effect blood pressure and circulation.  This doesn't mean water will work for everyone.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by rextangle on Aug 8th, 2005, 2:23pm
So Kendra, what you're saying is that some shyte works and some shyte doesn't...

You're no Columbo! ;)

Rex

PS: Alcohol is a definite trigger for me.. haven't touched it since Nov. 2004.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kendra on Aug 8th, 2005, 2:38pm

on 08/08/05 at 14:23:41, rextangle wrote:
So Kendra, what you're saying is that some shyte works and some shyte doesn't...

You're no Columbo! ;)

Rex

PS: Alcohol is a definite trigger for me.. haven't touched it since Nov. 2004.



hahah. . .
Actually, what I was saying is that most people here and most sites I've seen seem to believe that alcohol is trigger. Period.  What I'm saying is i bet for some people, it would do the exact opposite. Actually help them.  That hasn't been discussed on this site or any other site.  Some people may have a treatment available without a prescription right in their wetbar.  
[smiley=me&mb.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by rextangle on Aug 8th, 2005, 2:41pm
LMAO! ;;D

Yep, you're right. Everybody has different triggers... and some shyte works, some shyte doesn't. That goes for triggers, meds, alt. treatments, etc...
We're all different.

From one detective to another,
Cheers!

Sherlock Rex
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:01pm

on 08/08/05 at 14:38:27, Kendra wrote:
Some people may have a treatment available without a prescription right in their wetbar.  
[smiley=me&mb.gif]



Wouldn't THAT be lovely!  



[smiley=sayyes.gif] [smiley=beer.gif] [smiley=me&mb.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by unsolved1 on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:06pm
Alcohol is a trigger for me. Last time I drank was July 3rd and I paid for it !

UNsolved
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kendra on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:06pm

on 08/08/05 at 14:41:24, rextangle wrote:
LMAO! ;;D

Yep, you're right. Everybody has different triggers... and some shyte works, some shyte doesn't. That goes for triggers, meds, alt. treatments, etc...
We're all different.

From one detective to another,
Cheers!

Sherlock Rex


Even though you are obviously missing the point (being, of course, that alcohol consumption should be addressed as a treatment rather than a trigger only-- as it has been thus far), I do appreciate your willingness to keep attempting to summarize my post.  I think, however, you can rest assured that people can draw their own conclusions without your continued assistance.  Thank you, though, for your perseverance.  


[smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by rextangle on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:08pm
Kendra, you are welcome! :)

PS: Some shyte works, some shyte doesn't!!! LMAO [smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by unsolved1 on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:14pm

on 08/08/05 at 15:06:52, Kendra wrote:
alcohol consumption should be addressed as a treatment rather than a trigger only


[smiley=huh.gif] You've got to be kidding
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by rextangle on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:22pm
 alcohol consumption should be addressed as a treatment rather than a trigger only ...


Ok, thanks unsolved, I'm glad I'm not the only one [smiley=huh.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by seasonalboomer on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:29pm

on 08/08/05 at 14:38:27, Kendra wrote:
Actually, what I was saying is that most people here and most sites I've seen seem to believe that alcohol is trigger. Period.  What I'm saying is i bet for some people, it would do the exact opposite. Actually help them.  That hasn't been discussed on this site or any other site.  Some people may have a treatment available without a prescription right in their wetbar.  
[smiley=me&mb.gif]


This would be like a trip through the looking glass into "wonderland". A place where up means down, black means white and no means yes. What a world that would be, you feel as though you're in cycle and your biggest decision would be either doing a shot of Jack or having it as a Jack and Coke. Instead of prepping for a cycle by stocking up with Oxygen and Red Bull, you'd just go to the store and get a couple cases of Corona and limes. That'd be dandy.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by vig on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:30pm
I thought she was going out on a limb on that one.
that's quite a stretCH.

I think somebody's been hitting the wetbar a little too hard.....
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kendra on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:33pm

on 08/08/05 at 15:14:00, unsolved1 wrote:
[smiley=huh.gif] You've got to be kidding


Theoretically, it can work for some people since it's a vasodilator just like oxygen.  Anything that changes your bp can have an effect.  For some, positive, and for some, negative.  Uh, Rex, isn't that just what you said in your last two or three posts?  

Daniel_tn's headaches didn't begin until a week after he stopped drinking after drinking regularly for a while.  I'm glad that those who have discovered it's a trigger don't use it, but it should be looked at as a possible positive thing for some people.  
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by rextangle on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:34pm
Kendra after using booze for CH treatment:

http://sidesplitters.catastrophe.net/arch/2004/drunk-Day_after1.jpg

IT WORKS!!!!! ;;D
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by seasonalboomer on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:36pm
i didn't see that :-X


(rex, you were the guy when we were kids that in the midst of a healthy snowball fight, eventually found the big chunk of ice to throw and ended the snowball fight right there weren't you?) ;)
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Frank_W on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:42pm
Looks like my kind of girl. Do you have her phone number?  [smiley=laugh.gif] :-X ;;D


Your "Gettin' Wild Indian/Stone Irish Drunk Tonight" friend,
-Frankzilla
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by rextangle on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:49pm

on 08/08/05 at 15:36:26, seasonalboomer wrote:
i didn't see that :-X


(rex, you were the guy when we were kids that in the midst of a healthy snowball fight, eventually found the big chunk of ice to throw and ended the snowball fight right there weren't you?) ;)



Uh... maybe? ;)
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kendra on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:50pm
;;D

funny funny!
Look, all I'm saying (from Daniel_tn's post) is that some people find O2 a benefit and many MDs will prescribe it because there is a chance it could work even though it doesn't work for everyone.  Some people will find that some meds work.  Subsequently,  they are on the list of meds that are prescribed, even though they don't work for everyone.  Unless Daniel_tn doesn't know what he's talking about-- and I believe he does-- then, it's possible that quitting drinking, or quitting the equivalent of taking vasodilators-- could trigger CHs.  

I think it has merit, even if you don't want to consider it.  Anything that changes circulation in the brain could have a positive or negative effect on CHs.  Like Rex was so kind to continue to point out, some "shyte" works, and some doesn't.  Theoretically, this makes sense.  We could just dismiss it out of hand because some people have had adverse reactions, but there may be a whole group of people who might get some type of relief from it (not exactly like that girl in the pic   ;) ) who haven't even considered it because of the belief that it will never be helpful.   In theory, since it's a vasodilator, it should have a positive effect for some people.  That's all I mean.  I really am not out to offend anyone's sensibilities.  Obviously, many of you have had negative effects.   Obviously, enough people have reported negative effects that it's been put on the list of possible triggers.  But, this doesn't mean that there aren't some people that it would have a beneficial effect for.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by rextangle on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:52pm
Ok, when I said some shyte works, some doesn't, I didn't mean to agree with you "Booze should be considered a treatment"... DUH!
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Linda_Howell on Aug 8th, 2005, 3:57pm

Nope.


Kendra lives in Nashville and Rex's pic had Canadian beer in the pic.  Not the same person.   ;;D


 Kendra...If you are real and you are simply misinformed, let me tell you something.  Everyone here doesn't have the answer.  But we DO have a lot of them.  More so than any other place you will find.

If you are not real...and just selling us something we;ve all heard before, well then:

     Bye bye and don't let the door hit you on  the way out.

Linda

 
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by rextangle on Aug 8th, 2005, 4:17pm
Linda, you may be right... but who knows?
As Jonny suggested on the General Board, this could be another transformation of hdido, or happeh, or pcmyk a.k.a. John. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

I recall that happeh had a problem with people who drink and he was a male. Now, he's a woman who advocates drinking.


[smiley=huh.gif]

I could be wrong, I'm no detective... ahem..
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Linda_Howell on Aug 8th, 2005, 4:24pm



O.K. then.


So..Kendra.   Talk to us and we will do everything we can to help you.

or kick your ass to the curb.  Whichever comes first.

Alcohol is a trigger for almost  every episodic.

Prove that wrong.  


Linda
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by sassy_lady on Aug 8th, 2005, 4:50pm

on 08/08/05 at 16:17:28, rextangle wrote:
Linda, you may be right... but who knows?
As Jonny suggested on the General Board, this could be another transformation of hdido, or happeh, or pcmyk a.k.a. John. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

I recall that happeh had a problem with people who drink and he was a male. Now, he's a woman who advocates drinking.


[smiley=huh.gif]

I could be wrong, I'm no detective... ahem..


Bingo !! you all hit the jackpot !!!
sounds like a troll to me !!
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by jcmquix on Aug 8th, 2005, 4:56pm
You want to know what I learned about Beer, last time I was in cycle, I got hit so hard which was over 3yrs ago.

The lesson I learned then, still sticks with me today. I do not have the guts to try and see yet if my cycle is over, it was one of the worse CH attacks I ever had.

Every once in a while I look in the fridge and think, Hmmmm I could have a beer, but the my mind remembers what happened and I just close the door and walk away.  :'(

If you are not sure if its a trigger or not, well I don't advise tring it. Something like Sliding Down a Razor Blade into a Pool of Rubing Alcohol, is what I would compare it to.

PFDAN's to ALL !!!
Charlie
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by LeLimey on Aug 8th, 2005, 5:11pm
Well lets see now.. I can drink spirits. I don't drink much but I can drink if I choose which isn't often.
Based on your theory that Dan's CH were caused by cutting out alcohol and going cold turkey and applying the same logic mine were caused by Pred.
I switched overnight from 60mg a day of Pred to Budesonide, another steroid and 3 dats later had my first CH.
Doesn't make so much sense now does it given that most people here CAN use Pred as a pain break and MOST people here could use alcohol as an instant dance with the beast.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by jcmquix on Aug 8th, 2005, 5:19pm

on 08/08/05 at 16:17:28, rextangle wrote:
Linda, you may be right... but who knows?
As Jonny suggested on the General Board, this could be another transformation of hdido, or happeh, or pcmyk a.k.a. John. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

I recall that happeh had a problem with people who drink and he was a male. Now, he's a woman who advocates drinking.


[smiley=huh.gif]

I could be wrong, I'm no detective... ahem..


Worth keeping an eye on....  [smiley=gocrazy.gif]

Alot going on here lately.... [smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by BobG on Aug 8th, 2005, 7:53pm
Boozin' will trigger most episodic sufferers, every time. I have NEVER heard of anyone ever say alcohol will prevent or stop a cluster headache.

FACT: phucc the scientists and researchers, alcohol IS NOT a treatment for clusters.

FACT: Nobody, NOBODY, can out drink a cluster headaches.

And,........
blood circulation in the brain my ass!
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kevin_M on Aug 8th, 2005, 9:28pm
Let's see, drinking piss, Kendra agrees.

stop drinking, Kendra agrees.


Well, my ears are pricked.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kendra on Aug 8th, 2005, 11:00pm

on 08/08/05 at 21:28:45, Kevin_M wrote:
Let's see, drinking piss, Kendra agrees.

stop drinking, Kendra agrees.

Hi. I'm not sure what you mean here, because I certainly thought the whole notion of drinking piss is completely disgusting.

Look, many of you seem pretty close-minded.  I'm not telling any of you to go out and drink! I'm pointing out why drinking, for some people, in light of Daniel_tn's scenario, seemed plausible as a treatment option.

My neurologist is the one that told me that bp and blood circulation in the brain is completely relevant. In light of this, and in light of daniel_tn's situation, I think it IS plausible.  It's a vasodilator just like oxygen.  So, why couldn't it work for SOME people? Maybe not those of you who have been really snide towards me and my posts, but some others who haven't found it to be a trigger?  

Anyways, I'm not trolling on here. Who would have known that making a simple suggestion would cause all this kind of close-minded nastiness?  I am a nurse though (not practicing anymore), and I do understand how some elements make lists of triggers and nontriggers despite the lack of scientific evidence.  If a marked amount of people cite alcohol as a trigger, it will be included in the lists of possible triggers.  It doesn't mean that, for everyone, it would be a trigger and, in fact, I still think that in theory, since it's a vasodilator, it could possibly work as a treatment for some people, in this case. Wrong? Maybe. It's just a suggestion based on logic.

I understand that all of you/us live with an immense amount of pain and are considerably cranky at times.   This is the only excuse I can come up with for your considerable crankiness towards my posts.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by cootie on Aug 8th, 2005, 11:46pm
So wat kind of beer do you drink Kendra.....does it trigger or help you ?  Your not workin for Budwiser are you ? This puds for you Pam

Oh yeah......I think there are about 4,000 members here and seems to me all of them say booze puts there dick in the dirt for ch attacks. BIG odds there.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by nani on Aug 8th, 2005, 11:59pm
When I'm just in my normal "chronic" "cycle" I can drink. If I'm in one of my "severe" episodes, I can't. Big time trigger. Sorry Kendra...I'm not buyin' it.  :-/
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Shiraj on Aug 9th, 2005, 12:07am
Who wants to hear a funny story.

During one of my cycles before I knew what CH was, I tried using alcohol to try to get rid of the pain. I would drink a glass of wine right at the start of an attack. Then i would wonder why it hurt for 6 hours, maybe i didnt drink enough.?!

Thank god I am slightly smarter now. Its funny what you can laugh about now that its in the past.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by nani on Aug 9th, 2005, 12:08am
Hi Shiraj!!! Good to see you. I hope you are well. hugs, nani
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Shiraj on Aug 9th, 2005, 12:19am
Hi nani! im surprised you remember me. Im doing okay as I can in the middle of a mild cycle. Just lurking this place when im bored.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by nani on Aug 9th, 2005, 12:22am
Surprised I remember you? Honey, you're one of the kudzu pioneers! Are you trying it this time? I hope something is working. Sadly, I've fallen off the kudzu vine...on to something else.  :-/  But it's working pretty well, so onward and upward!
Always good to hear from you, sweetie! hugs and pf wishes, nani
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kevin_M on Aug 9th, 2005, 12:26am

on 08/08/05 at 23:00:49, Kendra wrote:
Hi. I'm not sure what you mean here, because I certainly thought the whole notion of drinking piss is completely disgusting.


Yes Kendra, I read the body of your post only, regarding the treatment, listing the Chinese information and your commentary.   I certainly had erred in misinterpreting your view.   Sorry I misread that in following these two threads.  I'll not comment further on your posts.

Kevin M
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by BobG on Aug 9th, 2005, 12:56am

on 08/08/05 at 23:00:49, Kendra wrote:
Look, many of you seem pretty close-minded.  Close minded? Where the hell have you been for the 6 years this message board has been up and running? There have been many hundreds if not thousands of posts stating that alcohol IS a trigger. There has NEVER, EVER been a post that said alcohol will be any help at all I'm pointing out why drinking, for some people, in light of Daniel_tn's scenario, seemed plausible as a treatment option. Did you even read what Daniel_tn said? First he ask if drinking was ok and the he agree that drinking is not a good idea.

My neurologist is the one that told me that bp and blood circulation in the brain is completely relevant. In light of this, and in light of daniel_tn's situation, I think it IS plausible.  So, you're saying that one neurologist, yours, and one post from Daniel, that disagree with you, is proof positive that alcohol is a cluster treatment even though hundreds of cluster sufferers say it isn't?It's a vasodilator just like oxygen.  Why do you keep comparing alcohol with oxygen? They both may, or may not be, vasodilatos but they have nothing to do with one another.So, why couldn't it work for SOME people? For the simple FACT that it just won't. Screw the researchers, neurologist, scientists that might say alcohol might be a treatment. Proof that it is NOT a treatment comes from the cluster experts. The sufferers here Maybe not those of you who have been really snide towards me and my posts, but some others who haven't found it to be a trigger?  Yes, it has been stated here that some people find alcohol is not a trigger.But NOBODY has found it to be a treatment.

Anyways, I'm not trolling on here. Who would have known that making a simple suggestion would cause all this kind of close-minded nastiness?  You're beating a dead horse, Kendra. You have been told the FACTS but you insist to ignore them and keep on with your incorrect theoryI am a nurse though (not practicing anymore), and I do understand how some elements make lists Lists are for those that sell books and make money from other's suffering. FACTS are what pay the bills here.of triggers and nontriggers despite the lack of scientific evidence.  If a marked amount of people cite alcohol as a trigger, it will be included in the lists of possible triggers.  It doesn't mean that, for everyone, it would be a trigger and, in fact, I still think that in theory, since it's a vasodilator, it could possibly work as a treatment for some people, in this case. Wrong? Yes, wrong. Nice theory but it is WRONG!


From your messages it sounds like you may have a drinking problem and you want us to approve your "treatment" so you can have an excuse to continue your drunken life style.


Crankiness my ass.

Have a nice day  :)
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kendra on Aug 9th, 2005, 9:44am

on 08/09/05 at 00:56:41, BobG wrote:
From your messages it sounds like you may have a drinking problem and you want us to approve your "treatment" so you can have an excuse to continue your drunken life style.


Crankiness my ass.

Have a nice day  :)



Gee!  
First of all, I don't even drink.  I mean, I have a drink once or twice a year (and, it's not a trigger for me).  So, your theory-- which is neither based on logic nor based on facts or ANYTHING sensible at all-- is wrong.

Second of all, my post most certainly didn't disagree with Daniel's post.  I appreciate the care you took with your response towards me, but you are incorrect in this matter. Daniel wrote that he drank and then quit drinking. Within a couple of weeks after quitting drinking (I pm'd him for verification), he started getting cluster headaches despite the fact he had NEVER gotten cluster headaches prior to this.  His drinking behavior lasted 20 years.  His nondrinking behavior lasted two weeks before these CH occurred.

Daniel was asking if quitting drinking could cause CH.  All I did was suggest that it could since, after ceasing the  regular drinking Daniel attested to, there was an alteration in blood chemistry and circulation and possible BP changes.  These are the types of things that COULD cause or treat CH!!

I have not been on this board the past 6 years, as you are aware-- unless you still think I'm masquerading as a previous poster.  But, posing this idea shouldn't cause such an acrimonious response.  My neurologist, by the way, didn't suggest that drinking could be used as a treatment.  What he suggested was that anything that altered/changed circulation in the brain COULD trigger or possibly treat CH.  He suggested that anything that has these effects could have either a positive or negative affect on sufferers.  Quitting drinking COULD be a trigger if one was drinking regularly and steadily.  So, if Daniel was drinking steadily and regularly without CH, and then quit, then started getting CH, it WOULD SEEM TO FOLLOW that there is a possibility that FOR DANIEL, alcohol kept the CH at bay in the past.  How are you to say this is impossible?  And, if this is the case, who's to say that some people would be helped by it?  Alcohol is a drug the same way all these other drugs used for treatment are.  Some help, some don't.  Maybe for some people it would help.  Probably for most people, it wouldn't help.  But, you are absolutely wrong to just dismiss the idea that for everyone, always, it could never ever help.

Further, all I was suggesting that was that it be considered.  Alcohol supposed to trigger CH in half of all CH sufferers.  For these people, considering alcohol is a scary prospect.  This, combined with common literature, would obviously propagate the idea that alcohol could NEVER be helpful.  Consequently, I can understand some of the hostility here.  However, for those that alcohol doesn't affect negatively, who really knows if it could possibly help? There haven't been any studies done on this, and, since many have cited it as a trigger, it hasn't even been considered realistically-- has been dismissed out of hand.  Although, it seems that, if so many drugs that sometimes are shown to be effective physiologically in the same way that alcohol causes physiological changes and all these other drugs have SOME positive effects for SOME people, maybe there should be a study done on the possibility that alcohol could be effective too-- for SOME.  If it helped a small segment of those it hasn't proven to actually be a CH trigger for, then it would be worth considering.  

This is only, of course, if one isn't small-minded and closed to any possibilities outside their own frame of reference and are willing to think outside the box.

If someone ever does a study on this, be sure not to volunteer.  And, yeah, you do seem quite cranky.

 
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by LeLimey on Aug 9th, 2005, 9:52am
Lets see Kendra.. 9 posts and what have you done? What have you learned? (Sweet FA judging by your attitude) and what have you helped anyone with? (See previous comment.)
I think its time for a quick squirt of TROLL BE GONE!
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by jcmquix on Aug 9th, 2005, 9:59am

on 08/09/05 at 09:44:48, Kendra wrote:
Gee!  
First of all, I don't even drink.  I mean, I have a drink once or twice a year (and, it's not a trigger for me).  So, your theory-- which is neither based on logic nor based on facts or ANYTHING sensible at all-- is wrong.

Second of all, my post most certainly didn't disagree with Daniel's post.  I appreciate the care you took with your response towards me, but you are incorrect in this matter. Daniel wrote that he drank and then quit drinking. Within a couple of weeks after quitting drinking (I pm'd him for verification), he started getting cluster headaches despite the fact he had NEVER gotten cluster headaches prior to this.  His drinking behavior lasted 20 years.  His nondrinking behavior lasted two weeks before these CH occurred.

Daniel was asking if quitting drinking could cause CH.  All I did was suggest that it could since, after ceasing the  regular drinking Daniel attested to, there was an alteration in blood chemistry and circulation and possible BP changes.  These are the types of things that COULD cause or treat CH!!

I have not been on this board the past 6 years, as you are aware-- unless you still think I'm masquerading as a previous poster.  But, posing this idea shouldn't cause such an acrimonious response.  My neurologist, by the way, didn't suggest that drinking could be used as a treatment.  What he suggested was that anything that altered/changed circulation in the brain COULD trigger or possibly treat CH.  He suggested that anything that has these effects could have either a positive or negative affect on sufferers.  Quitting drinking COULD be a trigger if one was drinking regularly and steadily.  So, if Daniel was drinking steadily and regularly without CH, and then quit, then started getting CH, it WOULD SEEM TO FOLLOW that there is a possibility that FOR DANIEL, alcohol kept the CH at bay in the past.  How are you to say this is impossible?  And, if this is the case, who's to say that some people would be helped by it?  Alcohol is a drug the same way all these other drugs used for treatment are.  Some help, some don't.  Maybe for some people it would help.  Probably for most people, it wouldn't help.  But, you are absolutely wrong to just dismiss the idea that for everyone, always, it could never ever help.

Further, all I was suggesting that was that it be considered.  Alcohol supposed to trigger CH in half of all CH sufferers.  For these people, considering alcohol is a scary prospect.  This, combined with common literature, would obviously propagate the idea that alcohol could NEVER be helpful.  Consequently, I can understand some of the hostility here.  However, for those that alcohol doesn't affect negatively, who really knows if it could possibly help? There haven't been any studies done on this, and, since many have cited it as a trigger, it hasn't even been considered realistically-- has been dismissed out of hand.  Although, it seems that, if so many drugs that sometimes are shown to be effective physiologically in the same way that alcohol causes physiological changes and all these other drugs have SOME positive effects for SOME people, maybe there should be a study done on the possibility that alcohol could be effective too-- for SOME.  If it helped a small segment of those it hasn't proven to actually be a CH trigger for, then it would be worth considering.  

This is only, of course, if one isn't small-minded and closed to any possibilities outside their own frame of reference and are willing to think outside the box.

If someone ever does a study on this, be sure not to volunteer.  And, yeah, you do seem quite cranky.


You are the one who came here and posted, you are trying to tell us that Alcohol is not a trigger.. ???
Well from what I have seen on THIS SITE it is a trigger for most, and I have not seen ANYONE here who has gotten rid of CH from Alcohol...

I don't think you should be BANGIN YOUR DRUM unless you have FACTS to state that Alcohol is a cure for some who have CH, SORRY... we have the facts here of what Alcohol does to most of the poeple during a CH cycle...
I really Pisses Off the BEAST in our BRAINS....

Please go BANG YOUR DRUM about Alcohol someplace else..

Oh Yea.. If you are going to take OFFENSE when someone questions your replys to a post, live with it...
this is what this site is based on FACTS from ALOT OF GOOD PEOPLE... Not ONE Person...

Thank You... Have a PF Day....

Charlie.... (a BEER LOVER when not in cycle) [smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kendra on Aug 9th, 2005, 10:01am

on 08/09/05 at 09:52:36, LeLimey wrote:
Lets see Kendra.. 9 posts and what have you done? What have you learned? (Sweet FA judging by your attitude) and what have you helped anyone with? (See previous comment.)
I think its time for a quick squirt of TROLL BE GONE!


In my brief tenure here I have learned that if accepted knowledge is even questioned, I will not make many friends.  I would like to think that, hopefully, some of the folks that haven't attacked my ideas still have critical thinking and free thinking skills and respect those who attempt to share the same.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by jcmquix on Aug 9th, 2005, 10:01am

on 08/09/05 at 09:52:36, LeLimey wrote:
Lets see Kendra.. 9 posts and what have you done? What have you learned? (Sweet FA judging by your attitude) and what have you helped anyone with? (See previous comment.)
I think its time for a quick squirt of TROLL BE GONE!


I am starting to think the same thing... I mean... give me a break.... Alcohol as a cure..... If only I could be so LUCKY......

Charlie
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Kendra on Aug 9th, 2005, 10:04am

on 08/09/05 at 09:59:03, jcmquix wrote:
You are the one who came here and posted, you are trying to tell us that Alcohol is not a trigger.. ???
Well from what I have seen on THIS SITE it is a trigger for most, and I have not seen ANYONE here who has gotten rid of CH from Alcohol...


No, Charlie & jcmquix, that isn't what I suggested. I know alcohol is a trigger for about half of those that get CH.  For these people, I wouldn't suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by jcmquix on Aug 9th, 2005, 10:06am
Hey.. LeLimey.... I am ready to throw the sign....

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/197940/2/Troll_of_the_Week.jpg

Ok... Are you going to sell us something then..????

Charlie  [smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by jcmquix on Aug 9th, 2005, 10:08am

on 08/09/05 at 10:04:06, Kendra wrote:
No, Charlie, that isn't what I suggested. I know alcohol is a trigger for about half of those that get CH.  For these people, I wouldn't suggest otherwise.


Half... you mean 50%... I think you better do some more reading..... Its way more than HALF ..50%....

Bye Bye.......Go get some real facts..... Thanks

Charlie  [smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by LeLimey on Aug 9th, 2005, 10:09am

on 08/09/05 at 10:01:32, Kendra wrote:
In my brief tenure here I have learned that if accepted knowledge is even questioned, I will not make many friends.  I would like to think that, hopefully, some of the folks that haven't attacked my ideas still have critical thinking and free thinking skills and respect those who attempt to share the same.


Its not a case of critical thinking or free thinking - that is one of the most inflamnatory and pathetic statements you've made yet and if its the best you can do to back your position then you are really a mental midget aren't you? I know you like that phrase!
There is more anecdotal evidence on this site and in any neuro's office than I can shake a troll poking stick at to prove that alcohol is a trigger. Your intention here is not to inform, it is not to make friends, it is not even to learn. It is to promote discord. Bad luck mate. We're onto you.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by seasonalboomer on Aug 9th, 2005, 10:11am
Gee Kendra! You question why anyone would question you directly on your statements or your suggestion that alcohol could be a treatment "theoretically" for CH.

Well, I'll put a slightly different spin on it for you. You see Kendra, this is a family that exists on this board. We're a family that understands this pain firsthand. And when someone makes a suggestion that an unbelievably high percentage of us know is idiotic, that if taken, could result in some of us throwing ourselves in the way of a moving train, we react.

This condition leads many to desperate measures to alleviate a CH attack. Having in the back of one's mind that a couple belts of Wild Turkey might help is a "thought" that many have to arrive at dispelling. In fact, for many, not being able to have a glass of wine with friends, or a beer with buddies, is kind of a sad reality when in cycle. For some of our family, the challenge of facing the reality of CH makes alcohol an unhealthy part of our lives to begin with.

So, to have someone pop in and start planting ideas that alcohol might just "help", in theory, you're gonna find that a few of us hone right in on the source of the statement and ascertain why one would make the statement and if said person is talking out of their ass, or simply irresponsible not understanding the whole picture here.

So, get over yourself and BACK OFF on this. It isn't worth all the theoretical blah blah blah. Get over it.

Scott
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by BobG on Aug 9th, 2005, 12:23pm

on 08/09/05 at 09:44:48, Kendra wrote:
yeah, you do seem quite cranky.

Thank you for noticing. I'm worked many years to develop that style. It's mine and I'm keeping it.

Have a nice day, sweetie.  ;)
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Bob P on Aug 9th, 2005, 12:26pm
I believe that O2 works because it is a vasoconstrictor.  Your brain wants a very specific amount of oxygen.  When you super load your oxygen content your brain says I've got enough oxygen and starts to constrict the blood vessels to decrease the amount of O2 it is receiving.  Least that's what Ueli taught me.

I'm a recovering alcoholic.  For the first 20 years of my cluster life I drank.  I had a cluster cycle every 8-9 months.  I used alcohol as the test to see if my cluster was really over.  I even tried drinking my way through an attack once (man, never ever try that).

When I quit drinking at age 40, my clusters immediately jumped to every 2+ years.  Was it no alcohol or old age?  I don't know but I do know that CH and alcohol don't mix (except for chronics, they seem to be able to drink anyway).
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by wip5150 on Aug 9th, 2005, 12:42pm

on 08/09/05 at 09:44:48, Kendra wrote:
Gee!  
First of all, I don't even drink.  I mean, I have a drink once or twice a year (and, it's not a trigger for me).  So, your theory-- which is neither based on logic nor based on facts or ANYTHING sensible at all-- is wrong.

Second of all, my post most certainly didn't disagree with Daniel's post.  I appreciate the care you took with your response towards me, but you are incorrect in this matter. Daniel wrote that he drank and then quit drinking. Within a couple of weeks after quitting drinking (I pm'd him for verification), he started getting cluster headaches despite the fact he had NEVER gotten cluster headaches prior to this.  His drinking behavior lasted 20 years.  His nondrinking behavior lasted two weeks before these CH occurred.

Daniel was asking if quitting drinking could cause CH.  All I did was suggest that it could since, after ceasing the  regular drinking Daniel attested to, there was an alteration in blood chemistry and circulation and possible BP changes.  These are the types of things that COULD cause or treat CH!!

I have not been on this board the past 6 years, as you are aware-- unless you still think I'm masquerading as a previous poster.  But, posing this idea shouldn't cause such an acrimonious response.  My neurologist, by the way, didn't suggest that drinking could be used as a treatment.  What he suggested was that anything that altered/changed circulation in the brain COULD trigger or possibly treat CH.  He suggested that anything that has these effects could have either a positive or negative affect on sufferers.  Quitting drinking COULD be a trigger if one was drinking regularly and steadily.  So, if Daniel was drinking steadily and regularly without CH, and then quit, then started getting CH, it WOULD SEEM TO FOLLOW that there is a possibility that FOR DANIEL, alcohol kept the CH at bay in the past.  How are you to say this is impossible?  And, if this is the case, who's to say that some people would be helped by it?  Alcohol is a drug the same way all these other drugs used for treatment are.  Some help, some don't.  Maybe for some people it would help.  Probably for most people, it wouldn't help.  But, you are absolutely wrong to just dismiss the idea that for everyone, always, it could never ever help.

Further, all I was suggesting that was that it be considered.  Alcohol supposed to trigger CH in half of all CH sufferers.  For these people, considering alcohol is a scary prospect.  This, combined with common literature, would obviously propagate the idea that alcohol could NEVER be helpful.  Consequently, I can understand some of the hostility here.  However, for those that alcohol doesn't affect negatively, who really knows if it could possibly help? There haven't been any studies done on this, and, since many have cited it as a trigger, it hasn't even been considered realistically-- has been dismissed out of hand.  Although, it seems that, if so many drugs that sometimes are shown to be effective physiologically in the same way that alcohol causes physiological changes and all these other drugs have SOME positive effects for SOME people, maybe there should be a study done on the possibility that alcohol could be effective too-- for SOME.  If it helped a small segment of those it hasn't proven to actually be a CH trigger for, then it would be worth considering.  

This is only, of course, if one isn't small-minded and closed to any possibilities outside their own frame of reference and are willing to think outside the box.

If someone ever does a study on this, be sure not to volunteer.  And, yeah, you do seem quite cranky.

 


I sense much anger in you young Jedi.  The bottom line is that for the VAST majority of us alcohol is a big time no-no when in cycle.  It would be like suggesting a recovering crack addict to have a little toot because he's having the shakes - not a good idea.

In the words of Bill Murray from Stripes, "Lighten up Francis".
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by floridian on Aug 9th, 2005, 1:51pm
Twice you said:


on 08/08/05 at 14:14:04, Kendra wrote:
 Alcohol is a vasodilator.  ...   For instance, oxygen is a vasodilator, too, and helps a lot of people with CH.


But oxygen is a vasoconstrictor, as are the triptans.  

There is a theoretical possibility that some people might have a change in vasoconstriction/dilation after they quit drinking. I would call this an aggravating feature, not the cause of the clusters.  Sometimes a stress or change to the body seems to drive the beast away, sometimes it opens a door to the pain.

There could also be a change in blood pressure, nitric oxide, and lots of other physiological features of the body caused by alcohol cessation, especially when alcohol consumption was frequent.  In the long run, I think the body would adjust and do better without the alcohol. An alcohol consumption of zero is generally advised when in cycle, in moderation (if one chooses) when not susceptible.
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Ueli on Aug 9th, 2005, 2:00pm

on 08/08/05 at 23:00:49, Kendra wrote:
Look, many of you seem pretty close-minded.  I'm not telling any of you to go out and drink! I'm pointing out why drinking, for some people, in light of Daniel_tn's scenario, seemed plausible as a treatment option.

My neurologist is the one that told me that bp and blood circulation in the brain is completely relevant. In light of this, and in light of daniel_tn's situation, I think it IS plausible.  It's a vasodilator just like oxygen.  So, why couldn't it work for SOME people? Maybe not those of you who have been really snide towards me and my posts, but some others who haven't found it to be a trigger?


Yes, I'm close minded on some subjects, like I do not believe that vasodilation does help a CH attack. I believe even less that oxygen is a vasodilator.

It can only be a troll, certainly not a (former) nurse that writes such bullshit.

[smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Redd715 on Aug 9th, 2005, 2:42pm
This theory is almost as intersting as sex causing CH, and abstinance as a treatment...

Oh will wonders never cease [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by rextangle on Aug 9th, 2005, 2:43pm
Kendra,

Wow, you're swimming in Poo-poo now aren't you? ;;D

The only thing that kind of puzzles me is the fact that you haven't tried to deny the possibility of being John.
A.K.A. Happeh, H-Dildo, PCMYK or others I could be missing.

Again, I'm no Columbo either but... ma'm... just one more thing.... [smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by cootie on Aug 9th, 2005, 7:24pm
I'm close minded when it comes to pain.......all you can think of is how bad it hurts and you close yor mind to the outside....so I guess you were rite about sumthing. Your prize will be some green tea, asprin or advil (your choice) and some sinus tabs.....also a case of beer. Closed minded troll sniffer Pam  

I smell troll......what do you like on your troll ?  ;;D
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Melissa on Aug 9th, 2005, 7:27pm

on 08/09/05 at 19:24:29, cootie wrote:
Pam  

I smell troll......what do you like on your troll ?

Why, "Hot Sauce From Hell" of course!!! :D
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by Frank_W on Aug 10th, 2005, 7:17am

on 08/09/05 at 19:24:29, cootie wrote:
I smell troll......what do you like on your troll ?  ;;D


Size 11 boot-prints, of course. STOMP! STOMP! STOMP!![smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: can quitting alcohol cause CH?
Post by brainfreeze on Aug 10th, 2005, 9:25am
Your question has been on my mind.  Alcohol is known to be a vaso-dialator.  This dialation enlarges the blood flow paths throughout the body which is the same condition that occurs during onset of headaches.  I say,  why taunt it?


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