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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2005 >> No More Milk
        
(Message started by: cabledawg69 on Jul 29^th, 2005, 4:37pm)

Title: No More Milk
Post by cabledawg69 on Jul 29^th, 2005, 4:37pm

This is my first post here and I would like to get a little insight about something. I have suffered with clusters about 2.5 years. They occur on the left temple and sometimes would become almost crippling. I usually get them about noon or midnight. I have used oral Verapimil (which I am no longer taking) and Imitrex for attacks. I went to a dental appt where this came up and the dental asst said that her daughter had cluster headaches quite often until she quit eating cheese. This got me to thinking about my sometimes excessive milk consumption. When I started thinking about it, it would make sense that milk might have been causing my attacks. Since I have quit drinking milk, my headaches have almost completely gone away, with the exception of occasional shadows or very mild and manageble headaches.
Has anybody heard of this? I would like a little more insight on this, if so. I feel like I owe that dental tech the world. ;;D

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by burnt-toast on Jul 29^th, 2005, 4:44pm

I love dairy products - couldn't explain why for 36 years they did not cause CH and suddenly cause it in the last 10 years.

I've heard the dairy thing before but haven't come across much information to support the theory.

Best wishes on finding something to provide relief.

Tom

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by nani on Jul 29^th, 2005, 4:50pm

Welcome. I haven't seen much to support the dairy product "cause" either. I'm glad you're getting a break, dawg. Different things do trigger each of us, though. Is it possible you're episode was ending anyway?
pain free wishes, nani

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by cabledawg69 on Jul 29^th, 2005, 4:51pm

I hate to give up milk, but not having to base my life around my headaches makes it well worth it. My doctor did not even know what a cluster headache was until he saw me. I guess I need to get back with him and let him know about this. I still get really nervous when I get the shadows, though.

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by E-Double on Jul 29^th, 2005, 4:57pm

Glad it ended but the chances are that it was just coincidence.

All hail the Dairy product unless...............

LACTOSE INTOLERAAAAAAAAAANT ;)

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by lionsound on Jul 29^th, 2005, 11:43pm

hey cabledawg69, glad it worked for ya. I've heard of certain cheeses being triggers for some HA's, but milk itself is interesting. Of course one could always wonder if it wasn't the milk itself, but some of the chemicals additives that may have been problematic for you.

Be well and enjoy your PF time!
-lionsound

on 07/29/05 at 16:57:57, E-Double wrote:

LACTOSE INTOLERAAAAAAAAAANT ;)

[smiley=laugh.gif] yer killlin me, EE

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by jcmquix on Jul 30^th, 2005, 9:51am

As stated above, Everyone is different....

I have not noticed any difference in my visits from the BEAST and Milk Products....

I have Milk, Cheese, Cottage-Cheese.. eyc.. all through out the year, when my CH cycle started again this time after almost 3 yrs PF, I was told the same thing. So I went almost 3wks, without any Milk Products. Well it did not change the CH cycle one bit for me... Sorry. I went back to enjoying these Products and still nothing changed, no increase or decrease in the CH.

Again this is just me, everyone is different, Its just my [smiley=twocents.gif]

Fight the Good Fight

PFDAN's to You !!!

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by burnt-toast on Jul 30^th, 2005, 11:11am

Just another stupid thought.

If all ClusterHeads across the globe started boycotting dairy products - do you think we could get a little more attention for this nightmare? ;)

Any other industries we can blame? >:(

Tom

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by pubgirl on Jul 30^th, 2005, 2:31pm

Methinks Dental assistant's daughter had migraines ::)

Latest theory I heard about food triggers for migraines was that when our blood sugar level drops we go for a quick fix from easily available food which doesn't have to be cooked e.g. chocolate, cheese, oranges etc. then when the migraine starts, the food substance is blamed for triggering it rather than the fluctuating blood sugar level.

As for food triggers and CH, my jury went out and returned a verdict of "Not Guilty" a long time ago ;;D

W the B

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by unsolved1 on Jul 30^th, 2005, 3:07pm

Milk ? ... a trigger (or cause) ? ... Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

If milk is causing your headaches, you don't have clusters. IMO

Unsolved

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Racer1_NC on Jul 30^th, 2005, 3:16pm

If it was only that easy.......

Bill

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by broomhilda on Jul 30^th, 2005, 8:57pm

Hummmm allergic to milk and dairy products here, still got ch :-/

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by cjc68 on Jul 31^st, 2005, 3:51am

Cabledawg69, We do all have different triggers! Milk being a trigger? I am not sure! but, I have been suffering from CH for about 20 yrs and have noticed when I am in in my cycle and I drink a large glass of milk or have any dairy, I am hit a little higher up on the kip scale for that day! So I can say for me, no it is not a trigger meaning that I am not hit right after drinking milk but my hits later that day are usually a little higher up on the kip scale later that day! So I do stay away from milk during my cycle! but after my cycle ends I drink all the milk I want with no hits! Not drinking the milk doesnt seem to end my cycle but it may help to reduce the kip level just a little for me!
Chris

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Topical on Jul 31^st, 2005, 6:49am

It would be interesting to get the dental assistant onto this site so we could ask her some more questoins. I hope she is right and it was "the' trigger.

Follow ups with her daughter are needed. I've said to myself, it must have been this or that only to get hit again down the road. Let us know how it goes for you cabledawg.

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by LeLimey on Jul 31^st, 2005, 7:00am

I have coeliac disease as well as CH. (Its a gut condition, inflammation caused by intolerance of gluten) When I was first diagnosed with it I was also told I wa slactose intolerant but that that would only be until my gut had repaired itself.
Apparently lactose is quite indisgestible which is why if you are ill or have a tummy upset the first thing doctors tell you to lay off is milk and its why it will make you vomit!

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by floridian on Jul 31^st, 2005, 9:46am

Could be lots of things in milk that affect some people - I don't think it could be "the cause" that afflicts us all, but some people might do better when they avoid milk, just as others do better by avoiding hot conditions, gasoline vapors, or bright/flashing lights.

Some possible ways milk could aggravate clusters:

1) lactose intolerance - lowers tryptophan, serotonin and melatonin levels

2) Calcium - milk is loaded with it, and calcium channel blockers help many with CH. Calcium counteracts many of the effects of magnesium, and magnesium is known to help some with CH.

3) Allergy - sinus allergies, colds, and other conditions with immune activation are associated with worsening of CH. Having a food allergy to milk might do the same.

4) ??

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jul 31^st, 2005, 1:24pm

The only time dairy products have triggered a CH is when I mix it with Kahlua and vodka.
So I stopped putting milk in the kahlua and vodka, but i still get hit pretty bad.
Dont know what that means.
BMonee

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Jasmyn on Jul 31^st, 2005, 2:24pm

Triggers are just what they are... triggers. But only in a cluster cycle.

We all tend to grab at every straw that we thought could be the cause of CH. Still CH happens. Something is for sure (although the rest we cannot vouch for) the CAUSE of clusters is not diet.

But it is good to know what the triggers are and to stay clear.

Good luck! :)

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by bnfreeman on Jul 31^st, 2005, 4:46pm

I never drink milk, hate yogurt and only eat ice cream every blue moon. Cheese on the other hand, I love.I have been this way since I was a kid. I started to get clusters about 2 years ago. Today, I still don't drink milk.
I don't think the mystery of clusters lie in milk. Good luck!

BF

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Smurf on Aug 17^th, 2005, 1:28pm

on 07/31/05 at 09:46:11, floridian wrote:

I'm with Floridian on #2 about the Verapamil, et.al., that are calcium channel blockers. It does make sense to me (but I'm not doctor, nor do I play one on TV) to avoid Ca at all costs while in cycle. I've been trying to limit my calcium intake from all dairy and other foods now that I am in cycle. I had been upping my intake before the cycle at my health nut sister's behest - never again! I really felt that I got calcium poisoning, and that set my cycle off.

Anyway, with this modified diet - I do usually feel better and don't have as severe attacks as before. It's worth a try. I think your doctor could/should check your blood calcium levels - that would give you an answer, at least.

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Frank_W on Aug 17^th, 2005, 1:40pm

on 07/31/05 at 13:24:40, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:

LMAO!! Hrmmm.... I simply have no idea... ;;D [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Margi on Aug 17^th, 2005, 1:52pm

on 07/31/05 at 09:46:11, floridian wrote:

4) ??

Flo, what you're looking for here for #4 is that milk can contribute to a candida overgrowth which, in my opinion, can exacerbate a cluster cycle.

Years ago, Flash conducted an experiment on the old board amongst clusterheads and people tested surprisingly high for a candida albacans overgrowth when they did the morning spit test. Flash found a lessening in cluster symptoms after a course of Lamasil (I think that was the drug he took?) which controlled his candida problem. If you want to control candida, consume nothing white: sugar, flour, dairy.

I don't believe that candida causes clusters but i do believe that the sufferer is more susceptible to the side effects of an overgrowth while in cycle and, those side effects can potentially launch more cluster attacks (sinus congestion, allergy symptoms, sensitivities to perfume, etc. etc. it's a long list).

So...how can milk contribute to this, you ask? Because dairy cows are injected with antibiotics and they are passed through the system into the milk. Antibiotics kill off the good bacteria in our systems that we need to keep a good flora/fauna balance in our guts. If you must do dairy, take acidopholus to rebalance the good stuff.

For the record, my hubby doesn't drink milk and hasn't for years. He still gets clusters. So I'll just be shutting up now. :)

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by seasonalboomer on Aug 17^th, 2005, 1:59pm

on 08/17/05 at 13:52:13, Margi wrote:

Margi, that's a lot of theorizin' you're doin' there. You been gettin into Mike's O2 again?

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Margi on Aug 17^th, 2005, 4:12pm

LOL but of course, Scott! How else are we supporters supposed to cope?

Seriously, though...there was a guy here years ago who did a lot of research on all this. His name was Paul Kwo and I think he was actually a medical doctor/clusterhead. If memory serves, he was also a naturopath and he brought up some very good points about the candida connection. Flash did a lot of research into this subject, as well and I think you can still search a lot of the history of discussions here at ch.com on this topic back in the early days. This kind of discussion used to go on for days and it never got further than being inconclusive at best. Similar to the sleep apnea talks. Just another clusterhead commonality.

Just an FYI: Humans are the only mammal that drinks milk into adulthood and, if that's not enough - it's another mammal's milk! Lots of other ways to get calcium into our bodies.

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by BobG on Aug 17^th, 2005, 4:30pm

on 08/17/05 at 13:52:13, Margi wrote:

Years ago, Flash conducted an experiment on the old board amongst clusterheads and people tested surprisingly high for a candida albacans overgrowth when they did the morning spit test.

I remember that. LMAO!
Spit in the glass of water and see if it floats. [smiley=laugh.gif]

Was he serious about that! Really? I thought is was all just a joke. Please tell me it just a hoax pulled on the gullible....please.

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Margi on Aug 17^th, 2005, 4:45pm

well, Bob - it was, really. We just wanted to see if you would actually do it. Haha - GOTCHA!! :o

Nope, no joke. It's a very primitive way of telling if you have a candida overgrowth - there are other ways to test, but that way is still very reliable. If I remember correctly, I think about 80% of the clusterheads posting at the time tested positive, right? I take it you were one of them? OK, Ewwww.

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by BobG on Aug 17^th, 2005, 4:54pm

Nope, I didn't do it. Did you?

Do you remember when Bob P (I think it was him) said that clusterheads all had a crease in their earlobe?

There was a big cyber laugh at each other when most actually admitted they ran and looked in the mirror.
[smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Frank_W on Aug 17^th, 2005, 4:58pm

So..... What's the remedy for candida overgrowth, then?

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by BobG on Aug 17^th, 2005, 5:01pm

feverfew

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Bob P on Aug 17^th, 2005, 5:23pm

Hub thinks candida is a song by Tony Orlando.

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Jonny on Aug 17^th, 2005, 6:57pm

on 08/17/05 at 17:23:00, Bob P wrote:

Hub thinks candida is a song by Tony Orlando.

What the hell does Hub know, a few years ago he complained to me that his yambag was hanging low, I think it was around his 45th birthday.

Thank God I dont have ICQ anymore!!

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Bob P on Aug 18^th, 2005, 8:37am

Yeah! He was the first to try smoking dog turds too, and claims he has saliva like wet cement when he gets hit. Living in Indiana will do that you.

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by Frank_W on Aug 18^th, 2005, 8:49am

Do you dry them first, before you smoke 'em, or marinate them in diesel fuel? Uh... a friend wants to know. Yeah... :-X

[smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: No More Milk
Post by CHTom on Aug 18^th, 2005, 11:13am

Our humours are out of balance-leeches and blood letting work for me as well as eye of newt!