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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2005 >> Kudzu Dilemma/Question 
        
(Message started by: burnt-toast on Jul 19^th, 2005, 10:08am)

Title: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by burnt-toast on Jul 19^th, 2005, 10:08am

I may have missed something in all the other Kudzu posts but I have a dilemma and question. I want to try something different to break my cyle. I currently can't bring myself to try the clusterbuster stuff.

It's apparent that I need to taper off Verapamil before trying Kudzu. How have others accomplished this without aggrivating their condition?

Some things to keep in mind.

I don't get many and lately any breaks to taper off in.

I have been unresponsive to O2, Imitrex and Zomig as abortives.

Am I stuck like my neurologist seems to think? He doesn't know how to get me off one med. to try others without aggrivating my condition.

Has anyone else been successful under simular circumstances?

Tom

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by nani on Jul 19^th, 2005, 10:17am

I'm not sure you have to taper off verap, Tom, but caution should be used. Both verap and kudzu have calcium channel blocking (and therefore BP lowering) properties. If one takes both, they should monitor their BP regularly. Some folks have very low BP normally and those are the ones who should be especially careful or perhaps not use both. You're chronic, correct? It does not have cycle breaking properties for us chronics, it's used more like a long term prevent. It technically doesn't break an episodic cycle either, it just gets one through a cycle relatively (or sometimes completely) PF.
Should you decide to try it, keep us posted, OK?
PF wishes, nani

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by ozzy on Jul 19^th, 2005, 10:46am

Yeah, what ^^^^^^^ she said.

And to reiterate, Use your judgement.

Ozzy

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by Margi on Jul 19^th, 2005, 12:02pm

on 07/19/05 at 10:46:41, ozzy wrote:

And to reiterate, Use your judgement.

Ozzy

or better yet: talk to your doctor before you taper or add anything to what you're currently taking! We do have a lot of combined experience in dealing with this afflicition here but...we are still "just an internet group". We can't know you like your doctor does. As Nani says, both kudzu and verap lower blood pressure. If your pressure goes too low, it's very NOT cool. Also, if you stop taking verap to go on kudzu, you're subjecting yourself to blood pressure spikes (not to mention increased CH activity) - again, very dangerous. Never stop verap suddenly, therefore - you HAVE to taper off it, usually 3 days per step down.

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by ozzy on Jul 19^th, 2005, 12:35pm

Er... Margi, I guess part of using one's judgement would include talking to one's doctor. That is at least how *I* interpret it.

Ozzy

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by Margi on Jul 19^th, 2005, 1:09pm

same here, Ozzy - didn't mean to offend you at all. Covering all bases, just being over cautious, I guess. I would really hate to hear of someone trying something that could be potentially lethal because they read it on the internet. No offense meant to you either, Tom, or to YOU, Nani. Just me being anal.

OK, I'll just be shutting up now..... ;)

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by ozzy on Jul 19^th, 2005, 2:40pm

No offense taken :D...It was *my* way of CYA or is it CMA? Anyway, I'm with you. We can (collectively) offer personal experience, not necessarily advice and much less medical opinion...

Ozzy

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by seasonalboomer on Jul 19^th, 2005, 3:07pm

so what you're saying is that:

"rumor has it, but don't let anyone know I told you, that a certain root extract, of a certain weed that grows along roadsides, has potential (albeit unproven) therapeutical properties. Lest anyone with blood pressure issues, taking other medications, or any other potential problems take this as a recommendation, realize that this, like anything else I may, or may not, say on this message board, is coming from someone who doesn't know squat about boo, particularly about drug interactions. So, if I happen to say something positive about said weed, please consider this to be the ramblings of a "weed eater", and like the string that spins to cut the weeds, my advice may be just as undermining to your physical health. In other words, ask your doctor."

Is that enough of a disclaimer?

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by ozzy on Jul 19^th, 2005, 3:29pm

Can I have a notarized version of that please? ;;D

Ozzy

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by nani on Jul 19^th, 2005, 3:44pm

LOL, Scott. No offense taken, Margi. I'm usually more careful and put all the neccessary disclaimers. I also try to be real...
most docs won't have a clue about kudzu and interactions, even with Flo's fabulous info page. I also know it would take me weeks to get a neuro appointment, so I would (and did) start before I ever saw him. My understanding so far has been that except for Lizzie2 (who actually asked her dr, and still had dangerous side effects) the only negatives I've heard on this treatment were by folks who didn't do it right. ;)
Just kidding, but those who did not heed the advice given in all the threads and took it along with other meds, in spite of warnings not to.
Like Randy says...beta testing is hard work.

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by burnt-toast on Jul 19^th, 2005, 7:37pm

Thanks I appreciate the input everyone,

I fully understand - no need for the concern and disclaimers (good ones at that).

Rest assured I keep the Doc. in the loop (in some cases even on the right track) when making med. decisons. Only asking if someone else managed to taper off something while the nightmare was still active.

Kinda stuck in Limbo on making a move to something else without giving this nightmare more room to roam in my head.

- I very reluctantly accept taking any meds. in the first
place. BOY did I pick the right disease.

- Haven't had much success with abortives - Anbesol
seems to work but I ain't ready to bank on it yet.

- Can't get a break to taper off my current meds. and
try something else. The Doc. has some suggestions
but even he isn't willing to temp making the CHs
worse by switching while the thing is still active.

Just something I'll have to sort out.

Tom

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by Leggs on Jul 19^th, 2005, 10:48pm

Like Nani and Ozzy and everyone said, just use your judgement, find out what you can read, and then see what works for you.

I had been taking excedrin and advil for about 4 solid months, and elected to go cold turkey, in favor of the kudzu. It was one hell of a few days there, and the top three all time CH for one day, but the kudzu was absolutely remarkable.

Nani, I know I read someone's page with lots of stuff about kudzu, reactions, chemical makeup etc, but what was Flo's page? Maybe that was it, but I lost my favorites list in explorer, I think it was med-owl's page.

Pardon the rambling Tom, but I was trying to get around to a point here, that you got to gather as much info as you can, including the doctors, but make sure to factor in your personal feeling/reactions. I don't get any relief from Imitrex either, and they had me on narontin (sp) which totally put me in a coma, didn't help the pain, just made me disfunctional. In waiting for a neuro appointment (still haven't gotten one, one was cancelled blah blah blah), I had to do something. I took a leap of faith, had a bit$% of a headache, but the kudzu is doing great. IF I am consistent in the times I take it...

Good luck and keep in touch

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by nani on Jul 19^th, 2005, 10:54pm

Yes, T...that med-owl site is Flo's book. It's a remarkable compilation of info! Glad you're still doing good. :)

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by burnt-toast on Jul 20^th, 2005, 5:54am

Got some new CT Scans done yesterday - just one more shot at ruling out other causes. Amazing how CT Scans have improved over the years.

I can't get MRIs done due to metal lodged in my right eye. I've always had CT Scans done - Docs. never liked the lack of detail but the scans yesterday put together a really detaild 3D version of my brain and then a detailed 3D version of all the blood vessels and what not. Great Stuff and I was only seeing the preliminary pics.

Now they just need to improve the dye they inject into you to get the pics. Nasty stuff as they pump it in and the nausia it generates throughout the day as it leaves ya' is to die for. :-X

Tom

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by nani on Jul 20^th, 2005, 10:08am

on 07/20/05 at 05:54:21, burnt-toast wrote:

I can't get MRIs done due to metal lodged in my right eye.
Tom

Maybe you don't have CH, you just need to get the metal out of there...
just kidding.... ;;D

Title: Re: Kudzu Dilemma/Question
Post by birdman on Jul 21^st, 2005, 9:59am

Just a thought here. If I remember correctly, Nani takes both Kudzu and Verap but she has normally high blood pressure. If toast has a strong BP could he try slowly tapering off verap while slowly beginning kudzu? Obviously monitoring BP everyday. I have a home machine to check mine. Just a random though tfrom a random individual.