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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2005 >> Any suggestions on trying Kudzu?
        
(Message started by: Leggs on Jun 29^th, 2005, 9:39pm)

Title: Any suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Leggs on Jun 29^th, 2005, 9:39pm

Give me some input on trying Kudzu. I want to try melatonin at night also, I know the shadows are telling me CH is just around the corner, wow was my right eye messed up this morning.

If I went to my local health food store, my experience with them is they carry quality products, what should I be looking for or avoiding brand wise?

I am trying to tough it out before my pain specialist appointment, which is before my neuro appointment which is yet to be scheduled since they need all my records faxed to set up the referral.

I read up on the kudzu and melatonin business, and even found some extra stuff in Prescription for Nutritional Healing regarding melatonin. I am probably causing problems cranking down the Excedrin because of the caffiene. I take it at least 3 times a day, and avoid it after 4pm, and then take 800 mg advil right before I go to bed. This "method" does not in anyway take away my pain, it just makes me partially functional.

Only problem is, I tried to go Excedrin free a few times, swapping for advil, or aspirin and felt different variations of my face being peeled off by way of yanking my upper lip over my head because of some other issues going on ( possible Trigeminal Neuralgia, one guy said it, I don't believe it, yet).

Any suggestions on how I can do this? How long should I be off Excedrin? My husband will be around this week in case some goes teeeerrrrribbbbbllllyyyy wrong! :o Good day to play guinea pig. The only other things I take are supplements, a multi, garlic, flaxseed oil, calcium and glucosamine/chondroitin...

Title: Re: Suggestions on trying Kudzu....?
Post by nani on Jun 29^th, 2005, 11:00pm

The Excedrin could be making things worse, particularly if you take more than the bottle recommends. I don't think there has to be a detox from it. I would cut out the Advil, too. Try to at least avoid using either for a few days, just to cut down on the possibility of rebound HAs.(NOTE: I'm neither a doctor nor a kudzu expert)
The brands most commonly used by the testers were:
Planetary formulas Kudzu Recovery (750 mgs)
Natures Way kudzu (613 mgs)
Solaray Kudzu (this one has the lowest milligrams)
Testers started with a lower than recommended dosage per day and increased if needed (no one has increased their dose over the daily maximun stated on the bottle)
Space your doses through the day, with attention to when your CH is most active. "Pulsing" your doses to at least one hour prior to activity seems to be most effective. The most important thing to remember is to take them. Missing a dose can result in the return of full hits. Once you find the timing that works best, stick to it.

Melatonin should be taken about one hour before bedtime. Most folks use about 9mg. I once heard that it can be a trigger for chronics (I'm chronic) so I never use more than 3mgs.

If you haven't gotten your oxygen yet, try ice or heat to abort. I'm an ice person. Heat makes mine worse. Sometimes coffee or a Red Bull abort shadows pretty well. Try those before an Excedrin or Advil.

Keep us posted, OK? Good luck and PF wishes, nani

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Marc on Jun 30^th, 2005, 10:10am

Quote:

(no one has increased their dose over the daily maximun stated on the bottle)

After trying the suggested doses, I eased up to heavy duty doses of both Solaray and Natures Way at different times - up to 15 capsules per day. I didn't feel a thing, and it didn't change my CH's at all.

I realize that it works great for some, but not for me.

Marc

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Leggs on Jun 30^th, 2005, 10:19am

Thanks for your input, Nani and Mark.

Right now it's 10:30, no excedrin yet. I got to get out and get some Kudzu while I can still see, and it's worth trying to me, since I don't have anything else to try until I get to the pain guy, and eventually the neuro. In feeling the pain sort of easing in, I think I mainly take the excedrin out of fear of what's to come. It does something, I don't know what, but it does not abort.

Nani, all the posts from you are so big sis, nurturing. I appreciate it. T.Ann

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by fat___pam on Jun 30^th, 2005, 9:34pm

T, you and Dave (my bf ) seem to be in about the same spot. Shadows and no app. neuro for a while. He has been taking Kudzu since Saturday, he has still had pain so maybe its not working, but then again he missed his dinner time does yesterday and had three CH over night and had to call in sick this am because he couldn't handle the commute. Perhaps the Kudzu has been helping?? Not sure yet.

Its almost strange that just today he asked me to get him melatonin and excedrin! He will start the melatonin tonight. I would think your semi relief from excedrin has to do with the caffeine. I would say the coffee/red bull is a good idea. Dave often goes for one of those as well. Also a cold pack has been helping. We are pretty new to the board but Dave has had ch about 20 or so years. Last time he was at the Neuro was about 10 years ago.. he gave up. Thank heavens this board has given us some new things to try.
Good luck and try to hang in there.
C

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by bnfreeman on Jun 30^th, 2005, 11:45pm

Hi T. The excedrin will put a hole in your stomach. I about did it in high school from taking it like you are. It sounds like "its in your head" about thinking it might help if I take it now before the hit. But it won't help for the big ones. Maybe a shadow. Some swear by caffiene helping for shadows, but since I quit most of my caffiene I have had minimal shadows. Where as I had them all day, everyday.

I stopped taking pain pills too. Including anything over the counter. They really are a waste of time and as much as you are taking they can make things worse.Well, the pain pills may work some on strong shadows. Enough to help when you have to take care of your kids. But I'm no doctor. I have not tried the Kudzu, sorry I can't help there. Just wanted to offer some support. I know you are going through a tough time. Glad to see you are going to the pain specialist. PFDN soon.

Brandi

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Leggs on Jul 1^st, 2005, 8:08am

Well, yesterday, I made it through the day with just ONE dose of excedrin, but by dinner time, I was in seriously bad shape, so I just used an ice pack and chilled out a minute, and took my usual Advil for the evening :o

Problem was, I never got the kudzu, but today I have an appointment with my lawyer (re: the accident), and it's downtown where the health food place is.

I just need to wean myself off of it until I have the alternative. I think caffiene causes me problems, when I am OFF it I am so much better. I was totally addicted to coffee, going off was actually a CH trigger, so I like to time it so that doesn't happen. Actually, the pain yesterday, could have been from that, withdrawl I mean, because I was tolerable until lunch.

I always take Excedrin and Advil with milk or crackers or bread or something, probably why I have gained 20 pounds :-/, but not having the rot gut problems yet.

Another "good" thing, I was "feeling" the pain yesterday, so I can talk to the pain guy about it, what is was, etc. I was just a wimp and could not handle it without something.

I got other issues, not related to CH going on...what prompted me to try to find the neuro to begin with. LIke yesterday, I was just sitting there, and I felt like someone inserted a hot blade smack down the middle of my brain, from my nose to the back of my neck. I don't think I have ever felt pain so distinctly inside my brain. At least I had an MRI so I know I don't have a tumor or a anuerism or something.

I swear, one time I woke up in the middle of the night, with all the CH eye, stuffy nose, intense pain, but I had OTHER stuff, and I was looking up what the symptoms of brain bleeding were. That's when I reconnected with the CH board, and saw how I was having NEW things. I have a picture of my bloodshot right eye I have been trying to get posted, but it won't work.

Today, I am going to get the Kudzu...... ::)

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by ozzy on Jul 1^st, 2005, 9:44am

It's been said before, but it bears repaeating. Careful with the Excedrin and Advil. Not only will you destroy your stomach lining, but you will get rebound headaches from overuse. With Excedrin you have to remember that it contains Acetaminophen (Tylenol). Your liver does not appreciate it.

Be careful with the Kudzu, if you have other prroblems (cardiovascular, diabetes, or anything else) inform yourself find all the information you can and consult with your doctor.

Start with the lowest dose. My Nature's Way Kudzu says to take 2 caps three times a day. I take 1, three times a day.

Good luck and use your judgement.

Ozzy

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Sandy_C on Jul 1^st, 2005, 10:44am

I was an Excedrin "fan", taking three tablets as soon as every CH started. At first, I thought they were helping, but very soon, rebounds started hitting me - doubling the number of CH per day, and the intensity. Get off the Excedrin for the CH for sure. Then I read about the Kudzu and started using it with mixed results. The zu caused a couple more CH daily than my "normal" routine, but each one was much shorter in duration and MUCH milder. Made them easier to get through. Give the zu a try. I used Nature's way 613mg, and by end of cycle was taking 6 per day, pulsing them out.

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Leggs on Jul 1^st, 2005, 12:04pm

on 07/01/05 at 09:44:00, ozzy wrote:

Thanks for mentioning it Ozzy, people sometimes aren't aware of the dangers of over the counter, not to mention "natural" remedies. I DO seriously worry about the liver issues, that's why I am so motivated to stop the Excedrin, not to mention, the caffiene I think is contributing to the problem. You just kinda get in the circle of hell, not wanting to take it, but not having an alternative at the time.....13 days and counting to my pain specialist appointment.... ;;D

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Leggs on Jul 1^st, 2005, 12:08pm

on 07/01/05 at 10:44:28, Sandy_C wrote:

Then I read about the Kudzu and started using it with mixed results. The zu caused a couple more CH daily than my "normal" routine, but each one was much shorter in duration and MUCH milder. Made them easier to get through. Give the zu a try. I used Nature's way 613mg, and by end of cycle was taking 6 per day, pulsing them out.

The excedrin is on the way out. I forgot the Kudzu because I was at the Lawyer talking about all the new issues since the car accident, and my head was getting squeezed going over and over what my pain issues have been. I just got half stupid, and totally forgot I needed to go there. I hate how pain makes you dingy?! :o

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Leggs on Jul 1^st, 2005, 2:54pm

Okay, I iced the head, and I am on my way out to get the Kudzu...nothing better to do, it's hot as HE## in central Georgia today.

I took Excedrin first thing this morning, it's 3, and I haven' had anymore. I feel the right side of my face drooping out, nose stuff, eye runny. The only treatment Ihave had is icing the head since 6:30.

I read all the brands, and will on the look our for them, may check out the Melatonin too, since if I keep of advil, I will probably have a hard time getting to sleep.

Thanks for keeping tabs on me...BTW, I never took anymore excedrin than 2 at a time, and never when over the recommended dose for the day; the only the I went over what the extended period of time recommended.

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by ozzy on Jul 1^st, 2005, 2:59pm

For short term usage and to break the "cycle" of OTC pain relievers I would suggest Aleve, longer lasting and fewer (if any) rebounds.

As usual, check the indications, etc.

Ozzy

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Leggs on Jul 1^st, 2005, 3:05pm

My personal experience with Alieve, was it didn't do squat, but that was during the WORST I have ever had when they game me hormones. Then I was stuck, because you couldn't take anything else for 12 hours :o It may be okay in the evening, where I am just taking the advil to relieve the tension in my neck and back after having a headache all day (and my neck and back were hurt)

And another thing,??? wise. Is there a problem with taking things like advil/alieve with melatonin? If so, I will just prime myself up for a bit@# of a night. Probably just ought to do one thing at a time, so I can figure what is helping what is not...to start anyway..

Thanks Ozzy :) T.

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by ozzy on Jul 1^st, 2005, 3:56pm

There should be problem with melatonin and advil or any OTC NSAIDS. Check here:

http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharmaceutical/b2.prescribe.html

for more info.

Ozzy

Title: Re: Any Suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Leggs on Jul 1^st, 2005, 7:52pm

on 07/01/05 at 15:56:34, ozzy wrote:

There should be problem with melatonin and advil or any OTC NSAIDS. Check here:

http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharmaceutical/b2.prescribe.html

for more info.

Ozzy

Ozzy, you are totally my hero?! What a great site!

I will give a seperate account of how the kudzu is going, but I had to thank you for checking up on me. ;)

I checked out the crap the Neuro put me on for the mystery/non CH pain I am working on getting diagnosed.

http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharmaceutical/b2.prescribe.html

First of all, they told me I could use it "as needed for pain," and that is not what the info you sent said. Also, when I told them it totally incapacitated me, even the lowest dose, which they wanted me to triple, they told me to eat something before I took it, and the info says food has no effect on rate of absorption.

I told them I was uncomfortable taking some a powerful drug made for a chronic problem, when I had an episodic problem, even the mystery pain is episodic. They sort of blew me off, therefore, I blew them off! They sent me the records of my one visit. I don't feel like being pissed off so I am not going to read it until Monday.

Again, thanks Ozzie! I put that in my favorites...T

Title: Clarification on Kudzu dosage, please!
Post by Leggs on Jul 1^st, 2005, 8:22pm

I ALMOST FEEL HUMAN?! YEAH KUDZU, YEAH NANI, SANDY AND OZZY AND EVERYONE!!!

Okay, people, I took Kudzu, Solaray, 150mg at about 4pm, and so far so good. Kind of like Dave's supporter, was telling us, it SEEMS to be helping, I am not totally pain free, but hey, I have not had excedrin since 6:30 am this morning, and THAT's a good thing. Something is different about the pain, the major CH symptoms are GONE, the eye thing, the congestion, the jabbing. It's like I just have left over pain or sensitivity.

The only thing that is confusing me, I saw people taking about 6 dosages spread out, etc., and solary was the lowest, etc, but that doesn't exactly jibe with what is written on the bottle. The FRONT of the bottle says 150 mg, but on the ingredients, it says 150mg root extract, AND 165 mg root. The dosage is one or two capsules daily with a meal or a glass of water, but I just took one, and am going to have one in the morning, and one in the afternoon tomorrow.

Thanks everyone, if nothing else, I am off the excedrin, and have a way to survive until I get to a neuro! Hopefully the pain specialist will not freak over the kudzu. As much of that stuff as we have in Georgia, maybe he will goe halfzies with me in manufacturing it!!! Geeze, $16.99 a bottle, I needed it fast, but I will have to check out some of those internet resources....

WISHING pf DAYS TO ALL!!! T.ANN

Title: Re: Any suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by bnfreeman on Jul 1^st, 2005, 10:26pm

Glad to hear you are doing better! :D

BF

Title: Re: Any suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by nani on Jul 1^st, 2005, 11:39pm

That's great, TAnn! Hopefully things will just get better. I think that you have room to increase if needed. Start slow, though. Less is more...
There are a few online sites that sell it. I've used iherb.com and links from Flo's site. (see below-scroll down to the bottom of the page) Others have used vitacost.com. Keep us posted....
PF wishes, nani

http://med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Kudzu

Title: Re: Any suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Leggs on Jul 2^nd, 2005, 8:27am

Okay, day one update, didn't quite sleep through the night, but took 1/2 melatonin 3mg, don't think I could handle the whole thing, a 25 miligram dyphenhydramine wacks me out.

I woke up with a mild cluster about 6am, which is usually when I would take excedrin and go back to sleep. I still have a mild cluster at about 8am, but am going to use some ice after breakfast. I need to get off the otc stuff before I see the pain guy. At least with the kudzu, I will be taking it a couple times a day and give some rhythm to the day so I can log my pain better, and see what's related to clusters and what's not.

I have 150 mg root extract, but what's that other 165/root about? If I stepped up the dosage, that would be going over the recommended amount. I would like it take it again, but I am going to wait until 2pm for my second dose. I have to also realize, I am probably having caffiene withdrawl from NO caffiene in my body from the OTC. Another thing, I did not have any meds, no ibuprofen or naproxen or anything at bed time, which I have been doing religiously for about 2 months. . . . geeze, actually writing that, sounds pretty bad. :-/

Title: Re: Any suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by ozzy on Jul 5^th, 2005, 1:42pm

So , how are you doing today, it's been 2 days since you started on Kudzu. The effects are somewhat slow at first but after it builds up in your system, the results can be quite fantastic.

Congratulations on kicking the NSAIDS habit ;)

Keep us posted.

Ozzy

Title: Re: Any suggestions on trying Kudzu?
Post by Leggs on Jul 5^th, 2005, 9:52pm

Well, cross my fingers, but so far so good with the kudzu which I can't hardly believe. I wanted to write everyone a letter about it in treatments, but geeze, I am just so glad to have my life back, trying to catch up on stuff. I have had this horrid mystery pain AND clusters on and off since February. The CH were not that bad after March, but they did go on for a month instead of the usual couple weeks. BUT I was taking excedrin and advil daily.

I totally went off the advil and excedrin, which may have triggered the SERIOUS cluster. I call it a screaming, crying and drooling cluster. One of the top two I have had in my life was on Saturday.

Anyway, did the kudzu, I thought it was TOTALLY gone, had a great day day about two days later, it was like I was on stimulants or something, without the heart rate increase! Also, keep in mind, being off excedrin, I am totally caffiene free. Well, yesterday, the mystery pain was lurking, and some cluster signs, the eye, the congestion, were bugging me. So now I am paranoid to go off. I CAN'T BELIEVE THE KUDZU IS WORKING???? It even seems to be nailing the mystery pain, the on fire feeling in my mouth, etc.

The thing that is really bizzare, my back and neck are KILLING me, from when I was in a car wreck in November. Also, you know that place on your skull, duh moment here, can't remember the specific anatomical name for it from anatomy, right at the back of it where it sticks out sort of, where the spinal cord goes in??? Well, in the car accident, the active head restraint, WACKED me in the back of the head so hard, like a hammer hit it, and THAT is hurting now that I am off the daily dose of advil.

So, I have an appointment with a pain specialist, and working on the new neuro, but at least I can FUNCTION. I should have heard something about the new neuro appointment, but with the holiday, I didn't want to call today. But, like I said, I do have an appointment with a pain specialist next week, who hopefully does not think I am a total fruit for taking kudzu!!! If he does, I will just tell him to kiss my big toe because it WORKED folks!

Thanks for coaching me through this guys and gals.... :) If I ever meet you at a convention or something, I owe you all a big fat hairy hug! THIS is a great reason to stick around when I have faded away when the clusters do, so I can encourage others with what I have been through... ;;D