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Title: Good Seeds from..... Post by Candycane on Jun 15th, 2005, 12:05am Can you tell exactly again what to look for in the good seeds and the ones that are not. And any other things I might notice when getting ready to dose again. Think I had some not so hot ones, but am doing good again now. |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Langa on Jun 15th, 2005, 8:04am Did you dose after the first time? Also, what do you mean by good seeds? I usually throw out the seeds that look black...if it's an opaque white or very light green color those I use... Not sure if I answered the Q correctly girl... :-/ Langa |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Candycane on Jun 15th, 2005, 8:20am Sorry, I suck at explaining things sometimes. Well, I started getting hit last Friday and I dosed but it did nothing so.....(beat me) but I dosed again last night and did feel better. I heard some seeds have more potency in them. Anyway so far so good but was wondering. This is the WORST time for me to start getting hit again.(well, there really no good time but... I need a visual of a good one, you know me LOL NO Brains ;;D |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Giovanni on Jun 15th, 2005, 8:28am If you mean good seeds as in viable, etc. That should be easy to see once you cut into the seeds. The bad ones are black or other colors than white-ish. You might want to try the extraction method via red wine for 12 to 24 hours rather than the water for 2. I haven't done this myself, but read where it might be more effective for lsa extraction. John ;;D |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Candycane on Jun 15th, 2005, 8:32am Hey John thanks.....I get it! takes time for me sometimes ;;D Wine added to the mix sounds interesting, hmmmm? |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by vig on Jun 15th, 2005, 9:16am http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_7507098/HBWR/HBWR+seeds.jpg?bcfEDsCBL_yGFCfo I haven't found a bad one yet, but they're different sizes and probably vary in potency from batch to batch and seed to seed... click here for a bigger pic: http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_7507098/HBWR/__hr_HBWR+seeds.jpg?bcfEDsCBh8zDKQDZ Not for Human Consumption? 8) |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Candycane on Jun 15th, 2005, 9:42am Okay, thanks Vig and everyone. Think I am catching on :) :) Takes time ya know ;;D |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Langa on Jun 15th, 2005, 9:48am Gimme a break will ya CC...you're one of the smartest people I know... :-* I had no idea about the wine method either...interesting... :) Langa |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Candycane on Jun 15th, 2005, 9:51am on 06/15/05 at 09:48:31, Langa wrote:
I DO admit I have the best taste( in friends!!) :) :) |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by BikerBob on Jun 15th, 2005, 12:12pm I have not personally ingested any seeds, but I have been doing some research on them. I don't think anyone has ingested all seed types for comparative purposes in relation to CH effectiveness. Effects also vary by individual. I've read that one person had a trip level 4 from 2 HBW seeds, another person took 8 HBW seeds multiple times with a trip level 0. Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds IAmShaman.com has 4 different strains of Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds available: GHB - Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds (Ghana) IHB - Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds (India) IAW - Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds (Indian Ayurvedic) HHB - Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds (Hawaii) The descriptions say that the HHB are the best and have the highest germination rate, the IHB are smaller than the others, and the IAW are slightly larger than the others. I don't know if, or how, IAmShaman.com tests their seeds and I don't know how fresh they are. Erowid says they begin to lose their potency in 6-9 months. I wouldn't even consider using the GHB, IHB or IAW. Ethnogarden.com has Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds too (Argyreia Nervosa). I met the President of Ethnogarden Botanicals a few weeks ago. He has a research group that tests the seeds he sells. Rivea Corymbosa seeds I would use Rivea Corymbosa seeds rather than Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds. See the thread titled "Rivea Corymbosa". BB |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by nani on Jun 15th, 2005, 12:43pm Bob, just curious, why wouldn't you consider GHB, IHB or IAW? |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by BikerBob on Jun 15th, 2005, 1:10pm on 06/15/05 at 12:43:53, nani wrote:
Because if you're buying Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds from IAmShaman.com, the HHB seeds are better. These are some of the notes about their seeds: HHB - "Don't be fooled by inferior seeds... these seeds have about a 95% germination rate." GHB - "Not nearly as high quality as our organic Hawaiian seeds, but we still guarantee 35% germination." IHB - "Not quite as high quality as our organic Hawaiian seeds, but we still guarantee 65%-70% germination. smaller than the prized seeds from Hawaii." IAW - "These seeds have about a 90% germination rate." Another note about Rivea Corymbosa seeds compared to Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds - Flash wrote "They (Rivea corymbosa) also lack the poisonous outer husk, and ergotamine content of HBW." BB |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by BikerBob on Jun 15th, 2005, 2:32pm Another note about Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds vs. Rivea Corymbosa seeds: The reason why these seeds can be effective on CH is because of their Lysergic Acid Amide. Erowid says this about Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds: "At 0.136% dry weight ergine, then to get a good hit (assuming ergine is 1/10 potency of LSD) we need 100ug x 10 = 1mg ergine. Thus we need 1/1.36 g of seeds for one good hit (assuming the other alkaloids don't make you fucking sick) or 0.74 grams of HBWR seeds." Did you notice that little part that says "assuming the other alkaloids don't make you fucking sick"? The total alkaloids in Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds is more than 7 times the Lysergic Acid Amide. The total alkaloids in Rivea Corymbosa seeds is only 2 times the Lysergic Acid Amide. BB |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Redd715 on Jun 15th, 2005, 2:40pm on 06/15/05 at 09:48:31, Langa wrote:
Where do you find the recipe for how many seeds and how much wine and how many oz. are considered appropriate dose? I've yet to read this particular part of the concept. |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Margi on Jun 15th, 2005, 3:54pm RED wine for a clusterhead? Yikes. Even just a whiff of red wine for Mike is like sunlight to a vampire - IMMEDIATE cluster. He can't even eat things cooked in red wine. Would white wine work - anyone know? |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by vig on Jun 15th, 2005, 4:00pm on 06/15/05 at 15:54:39, Margi wrote:
I think it's because the seeds' ingredients are more soluble in alcohol than water. There's even been talk of using Absolut Vodka. If you had to you could probably then evaporate off the alcohol and be left with powder... my guess |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Margi on Jun 15th, 2005, 4:01pm gotcha. Thanks, Vig. :-* |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by BikerBob on Jun 15th, 2005, 5:30pm Redd, see the thread titled "Rivea Corymbosa" for opinions from Flash and I regarding number of seeds. Margi, I see no reason why white wine wouldn't work as well as red wine. As little as a shot glass should be sufficient. I posted this in the "Rivea Corymbosa" thread 2 days ago: I've exchanged e-mails with the President of Ethnogarden Botanicals, who I met at the conference a couple weeks ago. He has looked further into Rivea Corymbosa seeds. I asked him if he knew of a better way to ingest them than crushing the entire seeds and soaking them in water for 2 hours. He wrote "Crushing the seeds and Infusing them in wine for 12-24 hours". I asked him again about any side effects. He wrote "No negative feedback has been received in this regard, also none of our research group has experienced any either." BB |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Candycane on Jun 15th, 2005, 5:32pm on 06/15/05 at 16:00:16, vig wrote:
why didn't you tell me that last night , I got some of that ;) |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Flash on Jun 16th, 2005, 5:24am Mushrooms will also impart their active ingredients when stored in alcohol for a spell. Another thing to consider... for all we know, the other additional alkaloids in HBW (the same things that make you fuckin puke) might make them MORE effective against CH. We really don't know. Only time and lots of psuedo-scientific testing will tell. A good plan of attack, in terms of safety, would be: 1) Mushrooms 2) Rivea Corymbosa 3) HBW 4) LSD LSD is arguably safer than 2) or 3) but it's not easy to get hold of legally, and again can be much harder to moderate the dose. The GPs and neuros would probably add: 0) Methysergide But methysergide is only safer in terms of legality, sanity (due to much lesser psychoactive effects), and the ability to sue should it seriously fuck you up. The potential physiological side effects are much, much, much more serious. The physiological side effects of LSA can also be serious but treating CH with LSA should involve a very small and infrequent dose. |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by BikerBob on Jun 16th, 2005, 11:47am on 06/16/05 at 05:24:41, Flash wrote:
That doesn't make any sense to me. LSD (d-lysergic acid diethylamide) can be effective as a CH cycle-breaker and preventive. LSD is an indole-ring hallucinogen. LSD does not contain any of those other alkaloids. HBW can be effective as a CH cycle-breaker and preventive. HBW contains LSA and other alkaloids. LSA (d-lysergic acid amide) is an indole-ring hallucinogen very similar to LSD. What makes you think that any of those other alkaloids has anything to do with breaking or preventing a CH cycle? HBW contains ergotamine, a vasoconstrictor that can be a CH abortive, but we know from Cafergot that ergotamine does not break or prevent a CH cycle. What other alkaloid in HBW could possibly have an effect on breaking or preventing a CH cycle? Quote:
Don't you mean the physiological side effects of the other alkaloids in the seeds? LSA is like LSD and you wrote "LSD is arguably safer than 2) or 3)" (the seeds). BB |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by jokrs2 on Jun 16th, 2005, 10:53pm Excellent points, Biker Bob 8) This is quite interesting. Blessing's, Joe |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Chillrmn1 on Jun 17th, 2005, 4:35am I see interesting points being made by both Flash and BikerBob. Good debate. I'm not ready to rule out that the other alkaloids in HBWR doesn't have a positive effect against CH. Plus, when I dosed with HBWR seeds I didn't remove the hulls. Still, I feel the combo of psilocybin and LSA in my case was a contributing factor for my success. Lots of questions to be answered. Bob |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by dirky on Jun 17th, 2005, 4:40am BikerBob, I'm not dissagreeing with the generalality of what you have said, though I thought I'd make a point in connection with one of your statements "LSD does not contain any of those other alkaloids." But purely due to it's prohibition, an "LSD" tab is not quality assured in regard to dose or composition. It most certainly contains compounds other than LSD25, albeit in hopefully small ammounts. |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Flash on Jun 18th, 2005, 1:26pm on 06/16/05 at 11:47:02, BikerBob wrote:
What part of "for all we know" are you struggling with? |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by BikerBob on Jun 19th, 2005, 10:30pm Question: on 06/18/05 at 13:26:09, Flash wrote:
Answer: Knowing There's a reason why Ethnogarden Botanicals says crush the Rivea Corymbosa seeds and infuse them in wine for 12-24 hours, that he has received no negative feedback regarding negative side effects, and that his research group has experienced no negative side effects either. The ergoline alkaloids can be hydrolysed into Lysergic Acid. That is the reason for infusing the seeds in wine (or water) for 12-24 hours. Ergine, also known as d-lysergic acid amide, LSA, and LA-111, is an alkaloid of the ergoline family that occurs in various species of vines of the Convolvulaceae and some species of fungi. As the dominant alkaloid in the hallucinogenic seeds of Rivea corymbosa (ololiuhqui), Argyreia nervosa (Hawaiian baby woodrose) and Ipomoea violacea (tlitliltzin), it is often stated that ergine and/or isoergine (its optical isomer) is responsible for the hallucinogenic activity. [1] Ergoline Alkaloidal Constituents of Hawaiian Baby Wood Rose are: % of Total alkaloid Ergine 22.68 Isoergine 31.36 Ergometrine 8.20 Lys. alpha-OH-ethylamide 5.79 IsoLys. || 3.98 All these alkaloids listed here can be hydrolysed into Lysergic Acid. That is the reason for infusing the seeds in wine for 12-24 hours. Hydrolysis should only be done if the goal is to make d-Lysergic Acid. [2] The "other" alkaloids (non-ergoline) are what makes people sick. Note that the total alkaloids in HBWR are 7 times the LAA% and that the total alkaloids in Rivea Corymbosa are only 2 times the LAA% [3] LAA% Total Alks.% Hawaiian baby wood rose: 0.04 0.30 Rivea Corymbosa: 0.02 0.04 The ergine, also known as d-lysergic acid amide and LSA is what can break and prevent CH cycles, just as LSD can. BB [1] http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=247b6bshpafel?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Ergine&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b [2] [3] http://www.erowid.org/plants/hbw/hbw_info1.shtml |
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Title: Re: Good Seeds from..... Post by Flash on Jun 20th, 2005, 8:48am Thing is that we don't know which particular ingredient or combination of ingredients help our condition. It is possible (this is not my opinion BTW just a possibility) that the things in HBW that make us sick also make HBW more effective than shrooms. Assuming it is more effective than shrooms... because it might not be... we don't know. There's a lot of unknowns out there. For instance some people find certain species of shroom far more effective than others, and it's not necessarily related to psilocybin concentration. Why? Perhaps there are other syndergistic ingredients present, or present at different concentrations. Also already some people reckon that a combination of hallucinogens works better. Could it be that taking a combined dose of mushrooms, HBW, RC, and LSD (each present in very small quantities) would be the ultimate treatment? Would it be more dangerous? Would it carry a higher physiological load? Who knows? |
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