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(Message started by: Lori on Apr 26th, 2005, 11:37pm)
Title: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Lori on Apr 26th, 2005, 11:37pm
Grrr...a nurse on his route told him I could fill up with carbon monoxide and it can stay trapped under the skin and go to your brain and bad stuff will happen. So, what is up with this? Why do doctors prescribe this if there is a great chance of this happening. Or is this not really a big deal as this nurse is making it out to be. He didn't know what lpm I am on (only 5lpm and this did work for me so far with a mask nobag) so couldn't share that with her. Today the med. supply place brought me a concentrator (sp?) that makes 02 out of the air and it has a humidifier. Now he is scaring me about using it!!

Input please???
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by BobG on Apr 26th, 2005, 11:53pm
How did that "nurse" get to be a nurse? She's a nut-case and your husband shold not be listening to her.

O2, if used properly, is safe. Millions of people in this world use it every day and I have never, ever heard of anyone fill up with carbon monoxide and it can stay trapped under the skin and go to your brain and bad stuff will happen.

The concentrator probably will not be able to supply enough O2 to do you much good. Get a tank and a NON_REBREATHER mask. If you can get relief at 5 lpm that is good. But, get a regulator that will go to 10-15 lpm.

And please click the 'oxygen info' button on the left side of your screen. Print it and make your husband read it.

And, check Mr Happy's thread 'Free O2 Regulators for Sale'. Don't know if he has any left but there is a picture of what you need.
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Kim Y. on Apr 27th, 2005, 12:38am
The only bad thing ablut O2 is that if used all the time the body becomes dependent on it and you can't breath well without it at low liters of course.

With us only using it is 15 min at a time.


Quote:
a nurse on his route told him I could fill up with carbon monoxide and it can stay trapped under the skin and go to your brain and bad stuff will happen. So, what is up with this

I Have never heard of this...

PF wishes...Kim
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by ClusterChuck on Apr 27th, 2005, 1:11am
Your husband is right.  Oxygen IS dangerous.  Everytime I try to smoke a cigarette while sucking the oxygen, BLAM!!!  Flash fire!  The fire department does not like me too much anymore!!!  Haha!!  (Just kidding, I DO know not to smoke while sucking ... BTW)

There  CAN be problems with O2, but they are rare, and fairly easy to avoid.  As the others have said, I have NEVER heard of that reaction to it.  Using it at a max of 15 to 20 minutes (different doctors have different limits) is very safe.  Tell your husband to relax, and YOU relax and use that O2 (put out the butt, first!).

Good luck!

Chuck
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by LeLimey on Apr 27th, 2005, 3:52am
The advice I was given regarding o2 is that for someone without clusterheadaches breathing it at 15LPM could be dangerous as it constricts the blood vessels.

Of course that is why it works so well for us ch'ers as that is exactly what we need! Anything less than 12 LPM and without using a non re breather mask is ineffective.

The other thing I got told is that O2 clings to your clothes and you shouldn't smoke for about 20 minutes after using the o2 to give it time to dissipate. I'm not a smoker, I don't know if this is truly relevant but it IS the advice I was given by my local fire brigade.

I hope this helps. Get your husband to look at this thread and the oxygen information button on the left to allay his fears, he does only have your welfare at heart bless him!

It truly IS a lifesaver though. I don't go anywhere without a tank of o2 anymore and I can't recommend it enough.

Hope this helps!
Helen
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Gator on Apr 27th, 2005, 5:21am
The carbon monoxide comment is a new one on me.  Never heard such nonsense before.  Oxygen is probably the safest treatment for clusters there is.  

The main possible negative effects of O2 are:

1.  Rebound headaches
2.  Scarring of the lungs if used for too long at a time (the 15 - 20 minutes clusterheads use it shouldn't cause this)
3.  Fire hazard if you smoke during it's use

Here are some links about oxygen and it's use with cluster headache:

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/docgreg.html

http://www.maplefallswebdesign.com/misc/oxygen/oxygen.htm  

http://www.headaches.org/consumer/topicsheets/oxygen.html

http://www.chhelp.org/mhni.html

Tell your husband to do a little research before he believes anything anyone tells him - even so-called medical professionals.  Contrary to popular belief, doctors and nurses do not know it all.  In fact, when it comes to CH, they usually know very little if anything.  
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by purpleydog on Apr 27th, 2005, 6:35am

on 04/27/05 at 00:38:25, Kim Y. wrote:
The only bad thing ablut O2 is that if used all the time the body becomes dependent on it and you can't breath well without it at low liters of course.


Interesting. Never heard of getting addicted to O2. I guess this is another treatment all CH'ers who use oxygen should watch out for. Just like any other med that is capable of making you dependent.  ::)
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Bob P on Apr 27th, 2005, 6:43am
First, carbon monoxide comes from internal combustion engine exhaust.  Unless you're sitting in front of your running cars exhaust pipe, I doubt CO is a concern.


Quote:
Anything less than 12 LPM and without using a non re breather mask is ineffective.
Not so.  7-8 lpm works just fine for me.
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Not4Hire on Apr 27th, 2005, 7:07am
Kim Y wrote:

Quote:
The only bad thing ablut O2 is that if used all the time the body becomes dependent on it and you can't breath well without it at low liters of course.


Sorry, but I gotta see some written medical proof of this statement.

Oh that's right, I started using it at birth (even before!--my rotten Mom got me hooked on it, I guess) and I've been unable to stop ever since.  hmmmm......
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by don on Apr 27th, 2005, 7:12am

Quote:
The only bad thing ablut O2 is that if used all the time the body becomes dependent on it and you can't breath well without it at low liters of course.


Where did you get that info?
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Kim Y. on Apr 27th, 2005, 8:12am

Quote:
Oh that's right, I started using it at birth (even before!--my rotten Mom got me hooked on it, I guess) and I've been unable to stop ever since.  hmmmm......
The O2 out of these tanks is pure O2 right.  Well our body isn't use to getting that if you start using O2 24/7at low liters you'll have to ween off O2 just so your body can get use to the air you and I breath everyday. So in a sense you can become dependent...

Oxygen is used for a lot of things and it is good for you.  I was only making a statement and I must have left out this information sorry.

By all means I know O2 works for most of us CHer's
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by vig on Apr 27th, 2005, 9:20am
My husband says o2 is dangerous




compared to the danger of CH?
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Lori on Apr 27th, 2005, 9:44am
Ok I think he was referring to something like this..

"There is disagreement among many doctors as to its value and its dangers.  There are some basic guidelines............but a basic understanding of the lungs functioning is needed first.

First thing is that most people don't seem to understand the difference between the PO2 reading and the O2 Saturation.

The PO2  measures  the amount of dissolved oxygen in the blood.  The oxygen saturation is the amount of oxygen actually carried by the hemoglobin.


The use of oxygen without close attention to the CO2 levels could be dangerous. And that can only be determined by blood gases.  Giving too much supplemental oxygen to a person who is a CO2 retainer can cause the PO2 to rise, of course.  Too high a PO2 level tricks the brain into thinking the CO2 is ok too.  It is not.  For our diseased lungs will not remove the CO2 easily.  So, with too high level of oxygen supplementation, we can get into real trouble with the CO2 rapidly."

I was really upset last night when he came home putting down the use of the o2 when it seems helpful. I guess i didn't explain what he said very good. I couldn't remember every word so I went to look it up on the internet this morning. I still don't know how and if this relates to us using it in a small amount (not all day). Does this really only apply to those who have lung trouble??
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by mynm156 on Apr 27th, 2005, 10:07am
Hi Lori,

I am a Respiratory therapist and I can tell you the following:

Your husband probably meant Carbondioxide or CO2, not Carbonmonoxide.  While using a Non-rebreather set up.  The CO2 levels will as long as ou are not suffering from Chronic pulmonary disease will stay normal.  The WORST possible thing that could happen to a healthy adult is what is called Nitrogen Washout.  The atmosphere has 78% Nitrogen in it.  our bodies use nitrogen to help keep our lungs open.  After long exsposure to 100% Oxygen we can loose this Nitrogen and areas of our lungs can collapse.  This is VERY rare in healthy people.

So keep on it and dont worry.

Howard aka MYNM156
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Major on Apr 27th, 2005, 11:42am
Hi Lori,

When we first got my husband set up with 02 last fall, the oxygen company would not give us a full non-rebreather mask as they told us it was only used for end-stage cancer patients.  The person told us about the risk of lungs collapsing if pure 02 was breathed in for too long and how you needed a mix of gases for proper lung functioning etc etc.  All of the negative information they provided us with totally freaked me and my husband out, and nearly scared us out of trying it altogether, but fortunately reading posts from the good folks at this board gave us tonnes of reassurances, and I really can't imagine how he survived all those initial months without it.  We ended up getting the proper mask and a humidifier/bubbler from another source.

I was also pretty spooked when the tank first appeared in our house - didn't have any candles burning anywhere, was worried about the thing exploding in the middle of the night or of not turning the regulator off and filling our house with an 02 cloud etc etc, but we quickly mellowed out once it became evident as to how fantastic the stuff worked, without any of the side effects of trex.

Best of luck!
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by purpleydog on Apr 27th, 2005, 12:36pm
The main thing is to ask your doctor any questions, if you have any. Other people relating an experience someone they knew had, or even nurses giving so called advice when they themselves don't know, aren't the ones to take medical advice from. Your doc knows your situation better than anyone else. Except you.
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Ueli on Apr 27th, 2005, 1:07pm
Carbon monoxide (CO) is the result of incomplete combustion, such as when you run your car engine in a closed garage and the oxygen is almost used up. If you breathe in that garage the CO does not accumulate under the skin (what nonsense!) but binds irreversibly to the hemoglobin (red blood cells) making them unfit to carry oxygen. Tell that nurse to give back her licence.

Another often told bullshit statement is the "oxygen sticking to the clothes". Of what mysterious fabric are these clothes made?

Simple fact: As soon as you exhale the excessive O2 it mixes with the room air. An O2 molecule moves with an average speed of 280 m/sec (about the speed of sound), much too fast to "stick" to any surface. For the same reason half a meter (2 feet) away from your face there is no longer a appreciable increased oxygen concentration.

How about the overall increase of oxygen in the room? It's trivial as the following example shows: My office has the size 4.7 * 3.4 * 2.5, giving a volume of 40 m3 or 40,000 liter. Of this 21%, or 8400 liter, is natural oxygen. If I run my oxygen tank for 15 minutes at 15 l/min then 15 * 15 = 225 liter of oxygen are added to the room. Thus, the oxygen concentration raises from 21% to 21.6%, such a small increase that even your fire place won't burn brighter.

There are only 2 hazards with oxygen:
Don't direct the oxygen yet directly at an open fire. Use a non-rebreather mask to thwart the temptation to smoke while on oxygen. ;;D

Don't knock off the valve from the tank, or it will turn into a rocket: Always secure your tank from falling and put on the safety cap for transport.

[smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by sandie99 on Apr 27th, 2005, 1:16pm
My neuros have always convinced me that O2 is safe.
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Kim Y. on Apr 27th, 2005, 1:27pm

Quote:
The WORST possible thing that could happen to a healthy adult is what is called Nitrogen Washout.  The atmosphere has 78% Nitrogen in it.  our bodies use nitrogen to help keep our lungs open.  After long exsposure to 100% Oxygen we can loose this Nitrogen and areas of our lungs can collapse


Thanks for the information.  That is something I didn't know.  
Kim
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by eyes_afire on Apr 27th, 2005, 1:37pm

on 04/27/05 at 09:44:18, Lori wrote:
Ok I think he was referring to something like this..

"There is disagreement among many doctors as to its value and its dangers.  There are some basic guidelines............but a basic understanding of the lungs functioning is needed first.

First thing is that most people don't seem to understand the difference between the PO2 reading and the O2 Saturation.

The PO2  measures  the amount of dissolved oxygen in the blood.  The oxygen saturation is the amount of oxygen actually carried by the hemoglobin.


The use of oxygen without close attention to the CO2 levels could be dangerous. And that can only be determined by blood gases.  Giving too much supplemental oxygen to a person who is a CO2 retainer can cause the PO2 to rise, of course.  Too high a PO2 level tricks the brain into thinking the CO2 is ok too.  It is not.  For our diseased lungs will not remove the CO2 easily.  So, with too high level of oxygen supplementation, we can get into real trouble with the CO2 rapidly."

I was really upset last night when he came home putting down the use of the o2 when it seems helpful. I guess i didn't explain what he said very good. I couldn't remember every word so I went to look it up on the internet this morning. I still don't know how and if this relates to us using it in a small amount (not all day). Does this really only apply to those who have lung trouble??


That argument is totally irrelevant to a clusterhead.  Clusterheads don't care about O2 saturation, PO2 levels, CO2 levels, and 'diseased lungs'.  They mean nothing to a clusterhead since they are normal (unless they also have lung disease).  That nurse is guilty of not being able to distinguish between a treatment and a disease.  That nurse either didn't know you were a clusterhead, or she 'lost her logic'.

--- Steve
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Lori on Apr 27th, 2005, 2:45pm
Thanks for the replies. I will be sure to let my husband read this.

He thought not getting the carbon dioxide out would get into the blood and be trapped or something like that. I will be sure to share this info with him. I don't know exactly what he told this nurse except i was using it for HA's.

Thanks again.
Lori
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by rextangle on Apr 27th, 2005, 4:30pm
Nurses are dingbats...

I called Kaiser yesterday and talked to a nurse who told me she has CH... I asked her "what do you take for it?"

She said "I put potato peels on the back of my neck"...


Case closed
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by TonyG1 on Apr 27th, 2005, 5:56pm
Smoke anyone ...  [smiley=smokin.gif]

Just kidding  ;;D
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Lizzie2 on Apr 28th, 2005, 12:15am

on 04/27/05 at 16:30:36, rextangle wrote:
Nurses are dingbats...


Ahem...

PEOPLE are dingbats...not nurses...let's avoid going down THAT road!

MYNM knows it best because he's an RT, but I can just say the following from a nursing standpoint - although I am not looking at any books as I write this as my head hurts too damn much.

For one, something that is most dangerous with these NRB masks is if you leave yours on, completely sealed to your face, and fall asleep and the O2 in the tank runs out.  That's not a good idea.

Don't smoke with O2.  Starting even a small fire or blowing your house up is just not wise.

If you have a respiratory condition, such as COPD or even cystic fibrosis, using oxygen really needs to be monitored by a physician.  People with COPD are in what we call the 50/50 club.  This is an abnormally high level of carbon dioxide which becomes normal for them.

For us normal peeps, we breathe okay.  When our CO2 levels get too high, we breathe faster to blow it off.  We have good muscles - and we can breathe on our own.  We don't 'forget' to breathe at night (well...sleep apnea, but that's a whole different story!)...etc.

For someone with COPD, they need to have a higher level of CO2 because that higher CO2 level triggers chemoreceptors in the body to tell them that they need to breathe.  Due to the fact that their lung structure (I'm particularly referring to emphysema) has changed, they literally need a chemical reminder to breathe.  If we give them a higher concentration of O2 and their CO2 drops, then their bodies 'forget' to breathe, and they can die.  Now THAT'S where using O2 can become rather dangerous.

I've heard of oxygen toxicity - but I've never heard about it enough to feel like it's a concern for those of us with CH.  MYNM could probably comment more on that!

So that's just my .02!

Lizzie :)
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by mcf69 on Apr 28th, 2005, 12:34am

Quote:
Nurses are dingbats...

Watch it rex!!!!!!!! LOL  Just don't throw in the quip that nurses should be females...... ::)

Lori- unless you are an end stage COPD patient or plan on leaving your non-rebreather on for more than about 4 hours, you don't have much to worry about.  To put the kaboom theory to rest, it is my profesional opinion as an NFPA firefighter I&II, NYS&NREMT, Hazardous Materials Technician, and smart ass nursing student that oxygen DOES NOT EXPLODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Trust me, I've tried it and it was disapointing, get some propane if you want to blow something up..........
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Lizzie2 on Apr 28th, 2005, 12:59am
MCF,

Are you a male nursing student?  Never knew till now if you are!!  Damn you sound like my roommate, who is an EMT and also trying to become fire-certified and wants to become a flight nurse.  She decided to go to nursing school instead of paramedic school due to the timeline and some other stuff.

Best of luck, if you are....I'm sorry if we talked about this before in some other post and I forgot until now!!  My brain has been successfully fried by nursing school..... ;)

Lizzie :)
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by don on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:28am

Quote:
Nurses are dingbats...


CH sufferers are males with ruddy complexions
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by thomas on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:36am
You don't have a respiratory problem, so this is absolutely no worry for you, I hate idiots who see an O2 tank and think it is a breathing problem, I can breath just fine as a matter of fact I think I'll have another cigarette.  Tell your husband to listen to your doctor, there is a reason he is a doctor, you know?  Not some wannabe doc whack-job with an opinion on everything.
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by mcf69 on Apr 28th, 2005, 11:20am
Carrie
Yup I am, just don't say it too loud around the female instructors..... ;)  I'm not sure, I think we did have this discussion, I know what you mean about your brain being fried LOL  Best of luck with your NCLEX
Ben
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by trisha on May 2nd, 2005, 6:25pm
I used to have a horrible time w/clusters til I got 02.  I was taking so many meds (imitrex, codeine, excedrin, plus plus) until I finally got 02.  It has been a lifesaver.  I am no longer afraid to wake up w/them.  I went through a bad cycle in october and was free for while after that.  They are back now but I just plug in and in 5 minutes i'm pain free.  I use the non rebreather mask, 8 LPM and I'm good to go.  I have 2 kids i keep it in mycorner (they never touch it) plug in the mask when it comes, turn on take at litre flow and I'm good to go.  I haven't taken an imitrex since October.  NO premeds either.  I know it doesn't work for some but I hope for anyone who hasn't tried it you go for it! It's the best thing ever for me.
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Lori on May 2nd, 2005, 10:25pm
Thank you all for your help so I could be reassured and to reassure my husband.


:)
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Mr. Happy on May 3rd, 2005, 12:31am

on 05/02/05 at 22:25:55, Lori wrote:
Thank you all for your help so I could be reassured and to reassure my husband.

Good. Good. Now that you're reassured, there are all kinds of cool O2 tricks to learn. It's great if everything is covered by insurance, but it never hurts to be prepared with proper hardware of your own.

Step into my Branch Office......
RJ
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by Lori on May 3rd, 2005, 11:01pm
THanks for the offer mr. Happy.  :)
Title: Re: My husband says o2 is dangerous
Post by mynm156 on May 4th, 2005, 3:18pm

on 04/27/05 at 09:44:18, Lori wrote:
Ok I think he was referring to something like this..

"There is disagreement among many doctors as to its value and its dangers.  There are some basic guidelines............but a basic understanding of the lungs functioning is needed first.

First thing is that most people don't seem to understand the difference between the PO2 reading and the O2 Saturation.

The PO2  measures  the amount of dissolved oxygen in the blood.  The oxygen saturation is the amount of oxygen actually carried by the hemoglobin.


The use of oxygen without close attention to the CO2 levels could be dangerous. And that can only be determined by blood gases.  Giving too much supplemental oxygen to a person who is a CO2 retainer can cause the PO2 to rise, of course.  Too high a PO2 level tricks the brain into thinking the CO2 is ok too.  It is not.  For our diseased lungs will not remove the CO2 easily.  So, with too high level of oxygen supplementation, we can get into real trouble with the CO2 rapidly."

I was really upset last night when he came home putting down the use of the o2 when it seems helpful. I guess i didn't explain what he said very good. I couldn't remember every word so I went to look it up on the internet this morning. I still don't know how and if this relates to us using it in a small amount (not all day). Does this really only apply to those who have lung trouble??


Close but no cigar.  The proper term for the O2 levels in the BLOOD PLASMA is Pa02 not PO2.  and the term for Oxygen saturation which is how many red lood cells or hemoglobin are completly saturated with 02 is call the SpO2.
Now with regartds to a person who is a CO2 retainer the problem is that they no loger breath off the bodies desire to have or get rid of CO2 like a normal person.  They breathe off of thier bodies need for O2 or what is called their Hypoxic Drive.  A CO2 retainer who uses O2 at levels greater than 28%  can cause their PaO2 levels and SpO2 levels to raise. Th brain then thinks that the bodies need for O2 is less and decreases the work of breathing which can lead to a persons breathing completly stopping.  at which time the CO2 level will start to raise and then change the homeostatic state of the blood PH.


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