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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2005 >> lidocane spray as an abortive
        
(Message started by: wifesupporter on Apr 8^th, 2005, 5:22pm)

Title: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by wifesupporter on Apr 8^th, 2005, 5:22pm

With a little help from the medical info here I have tried a nasal spray of 2% lidocane as that is all my hospital has as an abortive for my wife. it seems to cut the attacks down to about 15 min from 45-60 min Just wanted to see if any one else has tried?

Bless all of you for being here to help me become a better man and be able to help her. I have been in the medical profession for 15 years and have never seen such pain as I have in the last 6 years.

Thank you, Steve.

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by jokrs2 on Apr 8^th, 2005, 5:35pm

Steve, you are a blessing! Hang in there. There are alot of things going on in the fight with this demon. If you have the time check out the string on Kudzu in medications & treatments. I have tried a variety of pain killers in the past but not nasal lidocaine. I have had lidocaine injections which have helped for a little while, but I am personally having better results with kudzu. All the best. I hope your wife is feeling better soon. Is she chronic? Joe

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by Tiannia on Apr 8^th, 2005, 5:36pm

Sorry no. That is about how long it takes Trex Nasal Spray to work for me though. You might want to have them try O2. That helps to abort a lot of sufferers HA and the ER should have plenty of that.

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by wifesupporter on Apr 8^th, 2005, 5:54pm

Just went today and found some kudzu hope it works. as for O2 we tried that a few times uver the years but not much relief. She is an episodic and her dr. finally agreed that they were CH. At first the word cluster was mentioned but no one said it was an actual diagnosis so we have just suffered thru. :'( but with the help here lets hope for the best.

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by jokrs2 on Apr 8^th, 2005, 6:07pm

Hi Steve. What brand of kudzu did you purchase if you don't mind me asking? Joe

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by wifesupporter on Apr 8^th, 2005, 6:19pm

I can't remember I am at work now will post later. I know it was a 150 mg dose with the 2% of diazin. still a good day [smiley=laugh.gif] she wants to go out to visit tonight, first time in 12 days I think its always a blur come bout time.

steve

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by Bob P on Apr 8^th, 2005, 6:31pm

Sounds like the Solaray kudzu (165mg kudzu root, 150mg root extract, 2% diazin).

I did try lidocaine nasal spray about 6 years back. It didn't help me. I have seen articles on using the lidocaine drops with very special instructions on how to lie on your back with your over the edge of the bed to get the drops to the right place.

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by wifesupporter on Apr 8^th, 2005, 6:48pm

I think you are right bob. and the head back trick was too hard for her to stay put while it was put in she needs to Rock a lot. I put the lidocane into a regular saline nose sprayer and she can hold still for a few sprays, Rock , then a few more sprays etc.

seems effective. Lets hope for the kudzu route. will keep you all posted.

God bless.

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by wifesupporter on Apr 9^th, 2005, 10:06am

[smiley=sayyes.gif] KUDZU looks like the wonder drug. A PF night after starting yesterday. She didn't have a shadow at all this am. I am amazed Thank you all.

Steve

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by nani on Apr 9^th, 2005, 10:15am

Hooray!!! That's terrific, Steve. :)
Have you read all the kudzu info? I know it's a lot...but I think it's important that you guys go into this fully informed. If you have any questions, post them or PM me. (not a dr or even an expert...I've just followed this very closely). Hope she has a PF day!!! nani

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by wifesupporter on Apr 9^th, 2005, 4:24pm

:'( sad news after I got home from work I was told the beast decided to show his face for a bit this am. However she said that it was shorter and less intence. wether it was the kudzu or the migranal as an abortive. but there was no lingering effects this time as there has been for the last 2 weeks.:-) well all for now hoping for another good night.
Steve

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by nani on Apr 9^th, 2005, 5:35pm

That's too bad, Steve. :( Although if it was a shorter duration and less intense, I guess you could say there's already an improvement. The key to using kudzu, it seems, is to pay attention to what times of day/night there is CH activity. Timing doses and being consistent with timing seems to be pretty important. The amount of the doses may also have to be experimented with. I don't think anyone here has taken more than the recommended amount on the bottle. The kudzu threads are full of "case studies" where testers talk about there doses and timing. Good luck and pain free wishes, nani

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by Pinkfloyd on Apr 9^th, 2005, 7:52pm

1) The lidocaine would most likely work better if she could manage to use the drops. I know the problem with trying to do that while in a cluster. If she can catch it very early ....the best way is to "pool" the lidocaine over the group of nerves in the back of the sinus cavity.
If you (or anyone) wants the instructions, I can post them later. I have them on my other computer.

2) Migranal will often provide up to 24 hours of relief (or at least reduced pain. I imagine you know but, it is DHE so be aware of that before using it in conjunction with any of the triptans. The IM injections will last longer than the spray in many cases....but they hurt a hell of a lot more also.

good luck
Bobw

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by mynm156 on Apr 11^th, 2005, 7:20pm

Lidocane spray nearly killed me with the Rebounds You also have to watch because they are sometimes mixed with Epinepherine that can cause some heart issues.

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by Pinkfloyd on Apr 12^th, 2005, 12:15am

on 04/11/05 at 19:20:05, mynm156 wrote:

Lidocane spray nearly killed me with the Rebounds You also have to watch because they are sometimes mixed with Epinepherine that can cause some heart issues.

Although no one asked...;-)...here are the instructions for the application of lidocaine drops from my cluster FAQ. Figured I'd post it since there are a few differences in what has been written here.
These instructions were written with the help of one of Dr. Kudrow's researchers. Where this was discovered and the most effective treatment regimen was devised through clinical trials. Thats not to say other ways won't work but.....

6.8 Lidocaine application

This treatment was first discovered by Lee Kudrow, MD.
Still remains a very good treatment for many, and is probably the
least expensive "prescribed" treatment you can find.

Use 4% topical Lidocaine HCL, Brand name Xylocaine (Astra),
also available as a generic from many manufacturers (Roxane). It is
OLD, NOT compoundable, (as it is a "single, diluted chemical) and
cheap--approx. $20/50cc, but some pharmacies make a big deal
about it and charge outlandishly. It is off-the-shelf (not OTC), and
can be ordered easily by ANY U.S. pharmacy. It should cost about
$.05/treatment. Do NOT use
Lidocaine with epinephrine added,(which is what most dentists use
for local anesthesia).

Use a nose dropper, preferably graduated, and draw up .5ml or .5 cc
or 20 mg. (all the same thing if it's 4%). Dose is NOT that critical,
but administration technique is! An older method using cotton-
tipped swabs soaked in lidocaine is no longer used.

Lie supine (on your back) on a bed or bench with your head
"hanging off the end", and lowered about 60 degrees from the
horizontal.

Tilt head about 30 degrees TOWARD side of pain.

Insert dropper with lidocaine "in it" in the nostril on the side of the
pain until it is "comfortable"--not a critical distance.

VERY SLOWLY, squeeze dropper bulb and instill lidocaine so that
it "pools" at the back of the nasal passage (which is the WHOLE
idea) and doesn't go down throat. Try to take about 1 minute to
instill the .5cc and then stay in that position for 1 additional minute.

Get up slowly.

4% Lidocaine is somewhat bitter and, some may run down your
throat or out your nostril when you arise. It "numbs" any mucosal
surface it come in contact with, so do not eat or drink for 30
minutes as you may have a transient swallowing problem. You may
also feel numbness in your nose, or some localized burning
sensations, and you may also feel numbness along the second
branch of the trigeminal nerve including the upper teeth, gums and
tongue on the side of instillation. All of these side-effects should go
away within about 30 minutes.

This may be repeated in 2 hours, and, although the amount of
Lidocaine used is small by comparison to its other medical uses, the
safety window for repeating this treatment has NOT been
established.

"Close" to the rear of the nasal passages lies the Sphenopalatine
(Pterygopalatine) ganglion (a group of nerve cell bodies), and it is
the absorption into this area which is "believed" responsible for its
action. This is a large ganglion, and very complicated anatomical
area, which is also near the "second" branch of the fifth (trigeminal)
nerve, however it's the affect of lidocaine on the 7th (facial) nerve
which courses through this area which is thought to be relevant in
this instance. A temporary, chemical nerve block may be the reason
for efficacy.

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by wifesupporter on Apr 12^th, 2005, 4:29pm

Thanks for the info bob It does work with a nasal sprayer as well I had just purchased a saline nasal spray and made quick garbage of the saline. poured the lidocane in and voila! instant access. just an easier way to administer. any help we can be to the fellow clusterheads the better.

yours in support Steve.

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by vig on Apr 14^th, 2005, 4:58pm

uh, cocaine drops work too.....

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by Bob P on Apr 14^th, 2005, 5:10pm

I don't know? I tooted an awful lot of that stuff in my earlier years and I still have ch. But now that I think about it, I never did get hit while my nose looked like a powdered sugar doughnut.

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by vig on Apr 14^th, 2005, 5:12pm

I dissolved a little in an eye dropper and when it was time....
drip drop.
5-10 minutes later? gone.
kind of an expensive abortive, and I don't have access to more or I'd try it again.

Title: Re: lidocane spray as an abortive
Post by nani on Apr 14^th, 2005, 7:21pm

on 04/14/05 at 17:12:10, vig wrote:

kind of an expensive abortive, and I don't have access to more or I'd try it again.

That's probably a good thing, Paul. It may work, but at what cost to your body?