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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2005 >> Shrooms and Verapamil
        
(Message started by: zrmulcahy on Mar 4^th, 2005, 3:06pm)

Title: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by zrmulcahy on Mar 4^th, 2005, 3:06pm

I just got the go-ahead from my doctor to try the shrooms, and my roommate happens to have some (I've never done them before). He wants to do them tomorrow night, so I won't have a chance to get off the Verapamil--I'm just on 240mg/day. I have a wedding to go to tomorrow afternoon so I can't afford to even miss one dose of the verap.
So my question is this: is there any difference in the effect that the shrooms will cause with Verapamil? In other words, should I do more, less, or the same amount of the shrooms?
This is all experimental of course; I've heard of people both having and not having success while on verap. If I don't I plan to detox over spring break and try again.
I'll keep you updated though.

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by wideglide on Mar 4^th, 2005, 10:38pm

zrmulcahy,

I'll try to answer your question as best I can. Although nothing about the alternative treatment is written in stone, generally speaking one should up the dosage if not detoxed off of verapamil.

I am diagnosed chronic and although since first dosing with the shrooms about nine months ago, I have tried several times unsuccessfully to completely detox off the verap. I have managed to cut my daily dosage down from 720mg to 360mg as well as completely eliminate my daily dosage of 900mg of lithium. That coupled with the fact that the number and severity of hits I now get has been cut by approximately 75% makes me a happy camper.

All that being said, you have to also consider that this is your first time and you are not taking a very high dosage of the verap. What you are aiming for is a trip level 2. If you have not already done so, I encourage you to read through the FAQ's on the clusterbuster site. If you are using dried shrooms, I would say try no more than 2gms your first time out. If dosing with fresh, try 20gms. This is only a suggestion and there are many variables at play including the strain that you are taking.

I'm one of those who has had good success with the shrooms without detoxing off the verapamil. I usually dose 3+gms when doing maintenance doses, but I'm taking more verap than you and have a number of doses behind me.

Be prepared to get some hits on the downside of your trip. I'm one of the lucky ones whom seldom experiences these hits, but most seem to get hit for up to 2-3 days after dosing. Oxygen will almost definitely help out with the hits. I wish you luck and hope you have the same success so many of us have had. Keep us posted.

Bob

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by JJA on Mar 5^th, 2005, 7:44am

From clusterbusters FAQ

Quote:

4.1 Do I need to stop taking my current medications?....
The most popular CCB used by clusterheads is verapamil. We have received reports of clusterheads achieving complete success with psilocybin while taking verapamil. I have also seen reports from chronics whose only medication at the time of their psilocybin trials was verapamil, who failed to get any significant relief.

http://www.clusterbusters.com/faq.html

So there's probably no dramatic effect of verapamil.

Good Luck

Jesse

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by zrmulcahy on Mar 15^th, 2005, 10:12am

I got my hands on only about .6g and tried them last night. Almost no side effects at all. Didn't take my verapamil after that, and didn't get hit overnight--last time I tried that I got hit just after I fell asleep. I wasn't counting on that low of a dose to do anything at all, so we'll see what happens.

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by miapet on Mar 15^th, 2005, 1:56pm

As a rule, people are encouraged to detox off as much medication as possible. The trex family, prednisone, and melatonin (just to name a few) are notorious for working against the fungus. Verapamil though doesn't have the same history. If it's only being taken for CH, detoxing is best or, minimally getting it down to a low dose . . ..My personal theory is this .. ..since verapamil is actually a b/p drug, and D dosed while on b/p medication, they (b/p drugs) don't effect the same receptors, or, minimally don't effect the uptake of those receptors. Just my 2cents.
*positive light and energy*
miapet

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by vig on Mar 15^th, 2005, 3:13pm

So the conclusion I reaCHed is that the drug reactions with psilocybin merely negate the effects, not render them dangerous.

Has ANYONE had ANY kind of dangerous reaction?

But Margi will be right in about 5 seconds....
Don't forget to taper!

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by miapet on Mar 15^th, 2005, 3:17pm

I have been reading and talking for well over a year and have not heard of any.
*positive light and energy*
miapet

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by Margi on Mar 15^th, 2005, 3:56pm

just a reminder - and this is in NO way anything against the shroom treatment, honestly - it CAN be very dangerous to stop taking verapamil suddenly. Quitting cold turkey is not an option with this drug! It lowers blood pressure and stopping suddenly could cause blood pressure spikes which could lead to cardiac or neurological events that could be real dangerous.

Real good idea to detox off as many meds as possible if you're doing the shrooms, but rarely a good idea to stop cold turkey with anything. Taper is always better.

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by tommyD on Mar 15^th, 2005, 4:10pm

Taking lithium along with indole-ring hallucinogens (psilocybin, lsd, lsa, etc.) is said to enhance the psychedelic effects of the hallucinogens, resulting in more of a trip than bargained for. I don’t think there are any toxic effects involved - though you might meet God, it’s just for a short visit.

-tommyD

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by zrmulcahy on Mar 20^th, 2005, 9:41pm

UPDATE

Did a quick (doc approved, Margi :)) taper off the Verapamil, with my last one being Thursday night. Nothing but shadows so far. Might redose soon and see if that gets rid of the shadows.

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by Mr. Happy on Mar 20^th, 2005, 10:24pm

on 03/15/05 at 10:12:33, zrmulcahy wrote:

I wasn't counting on that low of a dose to do anything at all, so we'll see what happens.

I'm sorta feeling a Gomer Pyle "Surprise, Surprise" kind of thing. There's plenty of instances of one time trials that work, and other massive forays that fail.

Don't question good fortune.
RJ

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by zrmulcahy on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 2:30am

Felt a few shadows coming back, so I redosed last night with ~1.5g. Crazy stuff; rather enjoyable. The important part though is the HA's...got a mild Kip 3.5 this afternoon, but after that I cleared up more than I have in a long time. Makes me happy.

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 10:12am

on 03/23/05 at 02:30:35, zrmulcahy wrote:

.got a mild Kip 3.5 this afternoon, but after that I cleared up more than I have in a long time. Makes me happy.

Makes a lot of us happy. ;;D
Sounding good. Thanks for the update.

Bobw

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by BikerBob on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 1:29pm

If someone needs to take BP-lowering meds whether they're in a CH cycle or not, would ACE (angiotensin converting enzyme) inhibitors like Mavik and diuretics like hydrochlorothiazide be more or less likely to interfere with shroom therapy than calcium ion influx inhibitors like verapamil ?

If they are less likely to interfere, one can avoid high BP while tapering off verap by replacing the verap with an ACE inhibitor and diuretic. They're not contraindicated and work well together.

Bob

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by zrmulcahy on Mar 31^st, 2005, 11:12am

Now it's been two weeks since my last verapamil dose and still nothing but shadows (and an odd inner ear twitch--anyone else have that?). I can successfully drink a beer without getting hit ;;D. I've decided to become a farmer.
Hope you all have as much success with whatever treatment you're on as I did. Cluster can be "tenacious" as my doc put it.

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by LeeS on Mar 31^st, 2005, 12:23pm

Great news Z 8) Long may it continue.

on 03/31/05 at 11:12:46, zrmulcahy wrote:

Cluster can be "tenacious" as my doc put it.

Have you told him how you are now?

-Lee

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by miapet on Mar 31^st, 2005, 1:47pm

zurmulcahy .. .*YAY* and *happy dance* congratulations!

*positive light and energy*
miapet

Title: Re: Shrooms and Verapamil
Post by zrmulcahy on Mar 31^st, 2005, 2:22pm

on 03/31/05 at 12:23:25, LeeS wrote:

Have you told him how you are now?

I've been keeping him updated. He's actually very excited about this treatment both for cluster and migraines, and disappointed he can't prescribe it.