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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2004 >> lithium Questin
        
(Message started by: becky8 on Nov 12^th, 2004, 1:13pm)

Title: lithium Questin
Post by becky8 on Nov 12^th, 2004, 1:13pm

Saw the Neuro Tuesday, he didn't really know about CH but he did take my reviews to read and did end up giving me lithium (but that was AFTER yesterday I ended up at ER) I had gotta 02 and I even did a full stat trex shot but not soon enough. He first wanted me to try Caratrol and it didn't do anything thats why I ended up in ER. He finallly agreed to the lithium but only at 300mg and I am still on verapamil (which he made 320mg instead of the 360mg I was on) he's worried about my weight? Is that really an issue with Lithium? I know its not with Verpamil. Can anyone tell me their experience with the lithium and verapamil together. How long before you know if its working and what are the side effects.

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by Miklos on Nov 12^th, 2004, 5:13pm

In cycle I take both verapamil and lithium carbonate: 480 mg/day of verapamil (two 240s) and 900 mg/day of lithium (three 300s). I have had no side effects from the verapamil.

Some folks (like me) do get side effects from the lithium: frequent urination and on occasion, explosive episodes of diarrhea.

The main concern with lithium is that it can be toxic to the liver so initially I had lithium levels taken every two weeks. I no longer get the lithium levels because there was never any indication of toxic levels at 900 mg/day.

Be sure and follow your doctor's advice about ending either medication. One does not go "cold turkey" with either of these medications.

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by unsolved1 on Nov 12^th, 2004, 8:29pm

Many clusterheads are successfully treated with the Lithium - Verapamil combo.

Your doses are still low

PF Wishes,
UNsolved

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by nani on Nov 12^th, 2004, 9:52pm

I'm on both- 360mg verapamil and a very low dose of 150mg lithium carbonate . I don't recall seeing anything on weight gain in the side effects. Frankly it would be hard for me to tell- I've been gaining for awhile... :-/

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by unsolved1 on Nov 13^th, 2004, 9:02am

Check your PM's

I'm not sure if weight has anything to do with Lithium dosages. Good question...sorry I can't answer that one.

Unsolved

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by kissmyglass on Nov 13^th, 2004, 9:50am

I take 480 mg. Verap & 900 Mg Lithium with no side affects at all.
Since you take Verap already (although low dose) I think adding the Lithium will help you rather quickly.

Good Luck

Kev

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by becky8 on Nov 13^th, 2004, 3:04pm

Okay, I am getting some where. About week before I know if the lithium is helping??? Now I know with my next question you're all going to say talk to the doctor. But I am the one educating him. He gave 80's Verapamil cause I asked for them but they say 1, 4times a day (thats only 320) I was doing 360 when I went to him Tuesday but we did add lithium (only300) Since I have 80mg's maybe I'll just raise it on my own. I did it last DR. (no CH knowledge) and it worked for awhile anyway. I have a blood pressure machine so I can moniter. Think I am crazy??? My blood pressure is good on the 360mg. Sorry pain does werid things to people. If I am careful, what do you think. Just want to go to 400mg's???

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by unsolved1 on Nov 13^th, 2004, 3:20pm

I would hope that no one here would advise you to increase your doses without a doctors consent.
Too much Verapamil can cause dizziness, fainting, decreased blood pressure, slowed heart rate, and other side effects.

Unsolved

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by becky8 on Nov 13^th, 2004, 3:25pm

I know, and thats what everyone said not too the last time. When I was like on something useless like 80mg or something. Everyone says unless you are at 480mg is too low? Now is that if your not on lithium too, Unsloved????If not whats the point of taking it at all if it only helps at 480 and above????

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by unsolved1 on Nov 13^th, 2004, 4:09pm

Verapamil may help different ppl at different doses. I've always heard that Verapamil by itself usually won't help until a dose of somewhere between 480mg - 960mg per day (for CH). Verapamil & Lithium is a very common combination to combat CH. A "theraputic' level of Lithium should be obtained (Usually that level is achieved @ 900mg per day) and blood tests will show what levels are in your blood. A lower dose of Verapamil may (only) be needed when used in combination with Lithium.

PS. I can't handle 480mg of Verapamil per day. :-/

Unsolved

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by becky8 on Nov 13^th, 2004, 4:20pm

Unsolved1, thanks you're making me understand it more now. But until I have a blood test in 2weeks I won't know what my level is??? Please you're really helping me to understand. I mean I don't need to be on900mg lithium, just my level needs to be there??? Sorry I am going thru my worst time ever, hit constantly and level 9's mostly. Reaching here!!!

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by unsolved1 on Nov 13^th, 2004, 6:05pm

on 11/13/04 at 16:20:22, becky8 wrote:

until I have a blood test in 2weeks I won't know what my level is???

Correct ;)

on 11/13/04 at 16:20:22, becky8 wrote:

I mean I don't need to be on900mg lithium, just my level needs to be there???

Correct ;)

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by Jonny on Nov 13^th, 2004, 11:24pm

on 11/12/04 at 17:13:10, Miklos wrote:

I no longer get the lithium levels because there was never any indication of toxic levels at 900 mg/day.

Anyone that is taking Lithium everyday for more than six months should have blood work done EVERY six months for as long as they are taking it, Ive been taking 600 mg's everyday for the last 13 years and always have blood work every six months.

Any doc that says you dont need blood work is an idiot!

................................jonny

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by Karla on Nov 20^th, 2004, 1:51pm

I was on 900mg of lithium and never had a blood test once. I had 3 different drs monitoring me. my gp, my neuro, and my shrink. All were familiar with lithium. Yet I went over 2 years with no blood tests. They said they knew the signs of poisoning and would have me off the stuff quickly if I started showing signs. I had no problem with that.

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by Jonny on Nov 20^th, 2004, 1:57pm

on 11/20/04 at 13:51:11, Karla wrote:

Yet I went over 2 years with no blood tests.

Its funny how a doc will wait long enough for signs of symptoms....by then the damage would have been done.

Those docs ought to be lined up and shot!!!

..............................jonny

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by kissmyglass on Nov 20^th, 2004, 7:34pm

Wow Karla thats amazing. My neuro (Very cluster knowledgable) said no bloodtests, no lithium. It is a MUST.
I'm not really sure what happens when you go toxic on Lithium but I believe it's not pretty.

Kev

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by nani on Nov 20^th, 2004, 11:39pm

Verapamil increases lithium levels in your blood. My neuro has me on a very low dose of lith and insists I get checked every couple of months. When I was in the ER recently they checked my lith levels there. It seems that most responsible docs will be on top of that.

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by chris on Dec 17^th, 2004, 4:00pm

Must have lith levels done, lith is absorbed through the liver, effective treatment is very close to lethal dosage. Get levels checked every six months. Chris

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by Margi on Dec 17^th, 2004, 4:09pm

absolutely you should have blood tests while on lithium! Mike found his best results at 720mgs Verap and 900 mgs Lithium when he was last in cycle. But he had to ramp up on both meds, being blood tested each time the lithium was increased. He only stayed at 900 for a couple of weeks before his cycle finally ended, though and then had to ramp down again on both meds until he was completely tapered off.

And, Chris, I have to disagree - 900mgs of Lithium isn't "very close to lethal dose". That is the highest cluster dose usually recommended, but for bi-polar symptoms, it can go as high as 1800mgs.

Title: Re: lithium Questin
Post by ccbiggsoo7 on Dec 25^th, 2004, 4:16pm

Marge I didn't say 900 mg was lethal dose I just said effective dose is close to lethal dose. There is measurements that you will have to be in per body weight, tolerance that you must be in for the lithium to be effective. Each person is different. Only a blood test will determine if you need more or less. Kinda like a 500 pound guy and a 100 pound guy having a beer drinking contest. 9 times out of 10 the big guy needs more. Chris