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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2004 >> Finally determined cause of CHs
        
(Message started by: Nanook_of_Inuvik on Aug 30^th, 2004, 1:28am)

Title: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Nanook_of_Inuvik on Aug 30^th, 2004, 1:28am

I've been suffering for 4 horrible years.

Fellow CHeads, I want you to do an experiment for me:
Try to eliminate any foods with preservative "Disodium Phosphate", "Disodium Calcium EDTA", or "Disodium Inosinate" from your diets. You'll find it in just about everything including cereal, most kinds of sauces, salad dressings and preserved meats.

This chemical variant of Sodium (Na⁺²) interacts with neurolytic agents in your synaptic clefts of your nerves in the hypothalamas, which causes the Clusters.

It takes an average of 2-3 hours to be absorbed into your blood stream, which is why it took so long for me to determine cause of my CH, and why nobody else has been able to either. Allergies react fairly quickly, this stuff takes so long that it is discounted as a cause.

THE GOOD NEWS: Similar to the WaterX3 treatment, which flushes the Disodium, there is an unbelievably simple cure. Besides avoiding any foods that contain the stuff, which I do religiously at restaurants and at the grocery store, you can drink Gatorade.

By following this regimen, I've been able to get control of my Cluster Headaches.

Please don't discount the simplicity of this cure. Try it, and let me know if you have any success.

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Superpain on Aug 30^th, 2004, 1:37am

I for one would appreciate it if you didn't cross post. Let's keep the flames confined to one thread. ;)

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Nanook_of_Inuvik on Aug 30^th, 2004, 2:01am

sorry, I'm new. ;;D

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Ueli on Aug 30^th, 2004, 10:37am

Nanook_of_Inuvik, I don't know from what strange planet you come from, but in our down to earth chemistry there is no such thing as sodium ion missing 2 electrons, Na⁺².
Could be, with the help of a high energy accelerator, you could produce some Na⁺², and if you shoot it into empty space it could survive some time.

But our version of quantum mechanics says that a Na⁺² ion would be extremely unstable. In the presence of other matter it decays within micro- or even nanoseconds, to the ubiquitous Na⁺ monovalent Sodium ion. No chance to survive 2-3 hours and then do some damage.

Probably the ordinary Na⁺ plays some role in the synaptic clefts, after all it comes in really huge numbers. As an example I have about 4,300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (monovalent) Sodium ions in my body.

Please, give us a link to a web page propagating this strange bivalent Na⁺² ion; we always can use a good laugh. ;;D

PFNADs, Ueli [smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by floridian on Aug 30^th, 2004, 11:20am

Disodium inosinate is similar to monosodium glutamate and disodium guanylate. These 'food additives' are not preservatives - they are neurotransmitters that increase the intensity of flavors by stimulating the glutamate/nmda system. Glutamate stimulates nitric oxide production, which is already too high in CH.

High doses of salt (sodium chloride) are a known trigger for migraine. Sodium's role in CH is not understood, although it may be linked to known problems with calcium channels, chloride channels, etc. (see abstract below)

Gatorade is kool-aid with a pinch of salt - the fancy word is electrolyte.

Quote:

Lancet Neurol. 2004 May;3(5):279-83.

Epidemiology and genetics of cluster headache.

Russell MB.

Cluster headache, the most severe primary headache, is characterised by unilateral pain, ipsilateral autonomic features, and, in many cases, restlessness. Recent epidemiological studies indicate that the prevalence of cluster headache is about one person per 500. Genetic epidemiological surveys indicate that first-degree relatives are five to 18 times-and second-degree relatives, one to three times-more likely to have cluster headache than the general population. Inheritance is likely to be autosomal dominant with low penetrance in some families, although there may also be autosomal recessive or multifactorial inheritance in others. To date, no molecular genetic clues have been identified for cluster headache. Identification of genes for cluster headache is likely to be difficult because most families reported have few affected members and genetic heterogeneity is likely. Future focus should be on ion channel genes and clock genes. This review summarises the epidemiology and genetics of cluster headache.

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by eyes_afire on Aug 30^th, 2004, 2:59pm

Quote:

You'll find it in just about everything including cereal, most kinds of sauces, salad dressings and preserved meats.

Quote:

This chemical variant of Sodium (Na+2) interacts with neurolytic agents in your synaptic clefts of your nerves in the hypothalamas, which causes the Clusters.

One question... if it is found in just about everything and it causes CH, then why doesn't just about everyone get CH? [smiley=huh.gif]

--- Steve

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Nanook_of_Inuvik on Aug 30^th, 2004, 3:43pm

Some folks are predisposed to certain conditions, including CH.

Why doesn't every smoker get lung cancer?

Why doesn't everyone who eats chocolate or drink red wine get Migrane Headaches?

My advice is generated from what works for me to prevent my own headaches.

I won't get into scientific arguements, although with all due respect I'm quite sure "monosodium Glutemate" is different than "Disodium anything", as the name suggests.

This theoretically explains why cocaine stops attacks, as cocaine is a sodium-channel blocker.

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by pubgirl on Aug 30^th, 2004, 3:50pm

Cocaine stops attacks????

So why does lidocaine rarely work as an abortive? (lidocaine is a sodium channel blocker)

Wendy

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Redd715 on Aug 30^th, 2004, 3:51pm

I sure picked a good day to have to be home sick from work!

I have a full days worth of entertainment here.

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by vig on Aug 30^th, 2004, 3:52pm

in my limited experience, it doesn't stop attacks, it anaesthetizes them.
::)

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by pubgirl on Aug 30^th, 2004, 4:02pm

Nanook
In addition, if sodium channel blockers were of any use to Ch'ers, lamotrigine would be being used as a preventive, not Verapimil.

Lamotrigine is used for some TAC's (TN and SUNCT for example), but not for CH.

Wendy

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by BobG on Aug 30^th, 2004, 4:36pm

Quote:

This theoretically explains why cocaine stops attacks, as cocaine is a sodium-channel blocker.

Huh? Since when?

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Superpain on Aug 30^th, 2004, 4:42pm

SEE! Damnit... I told you to keep this flamefest to one thread!

BTW... In my extensive experience I have never found coke to even help CH...

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Nanook_of_Inuvik on Aug 30^th, 2004, 5:03pm

jumping threads again....

Ya gotta get some better stuff then, SuperPain. It neutralized my attacks in about 10 mins. (back in the day...)

Then I just got all chatty and hyper, relieved to have aborted an attack.

That was in the days before my Disodium/Gatorade relevation of course.....

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Redd715 on Aug 30^th, 2004, 5:06pm

He's back!!!!!

Like a bad penny.

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Lizzie2 on Aug 30^th, 2004, 5:12pm

[smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=wtf.gif]

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Superpain on Aug 30^th, 2004, 5:42pm

on 08/30/04 at 17:03:33, Nanook_of_Inuvik wrote:

Dude... I live in Arizona. Any good coke you ever got most likely passed by my house on the way to you. They give that shit away for almost free here. ;)

But that's beside the point...

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Lizzie2 on Aug 30^th, 2004, 5:51pm

Just was reviewing some information on MD Consult. They have an excellent patient information handout on cluster headaches. Just thought I would note that cocaine is listed as a cluster trigger.

Carrie :)

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Superpain on Aug 30^th, 2004, 5:54pm

Yep. I'd agree with that Lizzie.

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Tom K on Aug 30^th, 2004, 8:15pm

Coke being listed as a trigger is pretty funny [smiley=laugh.gif]! Diamond HC in Chicago used to use lidocaine drops in the nostril on the same side as one was having a CH in. Don't know what the results were, but I'm guessing that they weren't too successful [smiley=huh.gif]

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Kevin_M on Aug 30^th, 2004, 8:25pm

Coke could be a vascular constrictor,

Kevin M

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Lizzie2 on Aug 30^th, 2004, 9:22pm

Cocaine and lidocaine are not the same.... related, but distinctly different. And lidocaine has been used to treat a variety of headache conditions with a variety of success rates. I personally had my chronic daily headache dropped to a level 3 pain after being on IV lidocaine drip for 10 days last summer.

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by don on Aug 30^th, 2004, 9:31pm

Cocaine always stopped my attacks.

Unfortunately it stopped other things as well like'

eating
making a living
having a relationship
having a place to live, and
my ability to stay out of jail.

Thank God for Imitrex!

Yay Imitrex!

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by vig on Aug 30^th, 2004, 10:10pm

Dr. Robbins lists Cocaine as a last resort Cluster remedy.

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by pubgirl on Aug 31^st, 2004, 2:39am

Lizzie

I know cocaine and lidocaine are not the same, but Nanook was claiming it was a sodium channel blocking action at the root of his theory, citing cocaine as an example and I was just using examples of why this PROBABLY isn't the case (i.e. lidocaine and lamotrigine are both sodium channel blockers and don't really work for CH but do for some other headeache types)

I'm not blasting the whole theory out of the water as I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable to do that, also some of the calcium channel blockers which work for CH prophylaxis are also sodium channel blockers.

That's about as far as I get with my limited knowledge of Biochemistry

Wendy

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Rock_Lobster on Aug 31^st, 2004, 7:53am

on 08/30/04 at 17:42:25, Superpain wrote:

Dude... I live in Arizona. Any good coke you ever got most likely passed by my house on the way to you. They give that shit away for almost free here. ;)
But that's beside the point...

Bwaaaa! The kids on the corner have you paying $80/gram for Arm & Hammer!

/HA HA
http://www.synergizedsolutions.com/simpsons/pictures/others/nelson2.gif

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Superpain on Aug 31^st, 2004, 6:38pm

Rock, I abstain these days, but $80 will almost get an 8ball here. ;)

Title: Re: Finally determined cause of CHs
Post by Sean_C on Aug 31^st, 2004, 6:54pm

on 08/30/04 at 15:43:45, Nanook_of_Inuvik wrote:

This theoretically explains why cocaine stops attacks, as cocaine is a sodium-channel blocker.

Apparently my coke sucked............. ;;D

Sean............ ;;D